Richland CPUs - Are AMD CPUs the "best bang for the buck"?

[escrow4]

I apologize that I wasn't clear with this post:

I was just trying to illustrate the cost difference between AMD and Intel motherboards when comparing two similar motherboards. These two m/bs are high end boards for their respective cpus. The A88X chipset is considered the high end chipset for FM2+/FM2 which can support pcie 3.0 with Kaveri upgrade. I was using the Sniper series as an illustration, I realize that there are both AMD and Intel boards at various price points with various features and capabilities. Compromise with either the cpu or motherboard is dependent upon one's system needs and budget.
I am sorry I did this so poorly.

Wrong again. A Z87 Sniper is way way different to a basic FM2 Sniper A88 board. Those 2 chipsets can't even be compared period.

 

[SPBHM]

I apologize that I wasn't clear with this post:

I was just trying to illustrate the cost difference between AMD and Intel motherboards when comparing two similar motherboards. These two m/bs are high end boards for their respective cpus. The A88X chipset is considered the high end chipset for FM2+/FM2 which can support pcie 3.0 with Kaveri upgrade. I was using the Sniper series as an illustration, I realize that there are both AMD and Intel boards at various price points with various features and capabilities. Compromise with either the cpu or motherboard is dependent upon one's system needs and budget.
I am sorry I did this so poorly.

just no...
these boards are not comparable at all, a simple example, the FM2+ only have a single PCIe slot connected to the CPU 16 lanes (2.0 at the moment, Kaveri is not available). the 1150 have 4 (with plx chips and all), the 1150 have a second sata III controller, have Intel and bigfoot lan, the FM2+ have your typical $60-150 board realtek solution...


but go ahead and compare a $50-60 H81 board to a $50-60 Fm2+ board please, that's were you should be looking at if you are buying a Pentium.

you just decided to compare based on the name, their "Sniper" Fm2+ board is the best they have for a platform for sub $150 chips, the 1150 one is for a platform which can go as high as $350 chips, and dedicated to high performance CPUs,

 

[AtenRa]

but go ahead and compare a $50-60 H81 board to a $50-60 Fm2+ board please, that's were you should be looking at if you are buying a Pentium.

If you want to OC a Haswell CPU you only have 3 options. You need a Z78 motherboard and Core i5 4670K or Core i7 4770K. So, if you start with a Haswell Pentium and then you are planing to upgrade to a OC-able Core i5/7, you need to buy a Z78 motherboard.
Those start at $95.00 at Newegg.

H81 is fine with 2x USB-3 ports, 2x SATA-6 ports, you can use them with any Haswell CPU but you cannot OC(im not 100% sure but you can OC the iGPU).

With FM2+ you get more features at the same or lower price both in Motherboards and CPUs/APUs.

 

[drikkie]

With a H87 bord (and maybe others) you can still overclock the cores to max turbo (even with a non-K chip).

 

[AtenRa]

With a H87 bord (and maybe others) you can still overclock the cores to max turbo (even with a non-K chip).

You cannot OC non-K CPUs with Turbo even with Z78 boards.

 

[Lonbjerg]

You cannot OC non-K CPUs with Turbo even with Z78 boards.

Are you saying there is no way to OC and non-K CPU on a H87 chipset mobo?

Think carefully about your answer

 

[AtenRa]

Are you saying there is no way to OC and non-K CPU on a H87 chipset mobo?

Think carefully about your answer

If you know you can, why do you ask me ??? link to a source if you know otherwise

ps: I dont call OverClock the ability to raise 1-2MHz the Bus Speed from the board.

 

[SPBHM]

If you want to OC a Haswell CPU you only have 3 options. You need a Z78 motherboard and Core i5 4670K or Core i7 4770K. So, if you start with a Haswell Pentium and then you are planing to upgrade to a OC-able Core i5/7, you need to buy a Z78 motherboard.
Those start at $95.00 at Newegg.

H81 is fine with 2x USB-3 ports, 2x SATA-6 ports, you can use them with any Haswell CPU but you cannot OC(im not 100% sure but you can OC the iGPU).

With FM2+ you get more features at the same or lower price both in Motherboards and CPUs/APUs.

I think it's well known by now that Intel basically killed OC for cheaper parts, so I don't even consider it a factor anymore, and z87 is not going to bring that to anything lower than the 4670K anyway... so saving money on the MB when buying locked parts makes a lot of sense.

still, it's all irrelevant for his "choice" on that list
since as you said you can buy z87 boards for $95,

motherboards is not a a negative aspect from the Intel platform,
about OC, it's a shame but even without OC their CPUs hold well in terms of price and performance, and you can go with cheap boards/cooling since the possibility of increasing your TDP is not there anyway.

 

[AtenRa]

Well the thing is that the topic is about best bang for the buck CPUs, you can get a nice FM2+ X88 board with tones of features like the MSI A88XM-E45 at only $66.00 and pair it with Athlon II 760K at $90. You can OC to 4.2-4.4GHz with default Cooler and have Core i3+ performance with more features at lower price.

Or,

You could install the Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 only for $32.00, OC to 4.8-5GHz and get to another level of performance with more features for less than a Core i3 Haswell.

Core i3 4130 = $130.00
Core i3 4330 = $150.00

Athlon 760K = $90.00
Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 = $32.00
Total = 122.00

Not only that, you are able to upgrade to Kaveri if you need more CPU performance later on.

To sum up, you pay less for more features with AMD CPUs/APUs/Motherboards than Intel or you get higher performance at lower or the same price(When OC)

At entry level (H81 + Pentium), with Intel you sacrifice Features, MultiThreding Performance and OverClocking at the same price as AMD 750K + X75/87 boards. Same applies for mainstream (Core i3).
It is only the high end H87/Z78 with Core i5/7 that Intel can give you same features and higher performance but at higher prices again.

 

[MeldarthX]

Right now I can tell you I just put together A8-6600K APU with Asus X88; 4 gigs of 2000 ram and 250 gig HD; case ps for less than £250; and level of performance really surprised me.

I've not even OC the system yet but at 1440 by 900; its running WOT with everything high; no AA at steady 30 frames a second. Its handling pretty much every game I throw at it with the same.

my I5 machine - can barely handle WOT on the lowest of low settings at 30 frames a second......this is pure onboard graphics as I build this machine as an upgrade for kids.

I'll see if I can post some more numbers on the machine. But for the price; for light gaming; I don't honestly think Intel's got anything that can match that......

 

[drikkie]

If you know you can, why do you ask me ??? link to a source if you know otherwise

ps: I dont call OverClock the ability to raise 1-2MHz the Bus Speed from the board.

Not overclocking with the bus speed.
I can set the core multipliers to 3.9 for all cores for my 4770 on H87i instead of the default 3.6. Not a wild overclock and it is only active when on turbo with enough headroom, but still nice enough to get some extra oomph in your computer when needed (It's basically free)

 

[dguy6789]

No.

It's false economy where you have to buy something half as expensive, twice as often, to get the same performance. And you end up living with a slower processor for the first half. If I had bought a 8150 instead of my 2500k I would have upgraded already because that thing is a dog.

Nonsense. There's nothing on the market that an 8150 stock with a good GPU couldn't run that a 4.5Ghz Haswell could. Processors at this performance level are so far above the "good enough" performance bar for general usage and gaming that after that it's just having something faster for the sake of having something faster.

 

[AtenRa]

Not overclocking with the bus speed.
I can set the core multipliers to 3.9 for all cores for my 4770 on H87i instead of the default 3.6. Not a wild overclock and it is only active when on turbo with enough headroom, but still nice enough to get some extra oomph in your computer when needed (It's basically free)

Could you elaborate on that ???

 

[Lonbjerg]

Nonsense. There's nothing on the market that an 8150 stock with a good GPU couldn't run that a 4.5Ghz Haswell could. Processors at this performance level are so far above the "good enough" performance bar for general usage and gaming that after that it's just having something faster for the sake of having something faster.

ARMA3 would like a word with you....as a starter...

 

[monstercameron]

ARMA3 would like a word with you....as a starter...

isn't ARMA3 that buggy game from the dayz guys?

 

[Blitzvogel]

AMD is a great buy at lower price points, but there seems to be a more limited upgrade path if you want to consistently move up to better graphics and more performance. While commanding great value at such low price points is good for AMD, they really need better solutions in higher dollar range. Not making an FX Steamroller chip seems like a big mistake unless HSA + hUMA really becomes the giant leap in computing AMD loves to think it will be. Realistically there is no way AMD set up the kind of HSA software ecosystem needed to make such APUs the new standard in PC computing.

These things said, I'm looking into buying a cheap mITX FM2/FM2+ mobo for an XP legacy system to fit into a gutted Playstation 2 case :awe:

Richland and Trinity APUs are definitely a great value for this kind of proposition, whereas the cost of an Intel system with decent iGP would be way too high for a purely "fun" build. On this note, I'm disappointed to hear Kabini has absolutely no XP support, which makes it a no-no for what I want to do. Likely Kaveri will be the same. I do not need a non-binned APU. A single module with 3 or 4 CUs would be fine for older games like Far Cry and FEAR at 1600 x 900.

 

[Lonbjerg]

isn't ARMA3 that buggy game from the dayz guys?

So much fail...too funny ^^

Day Z = mod of ARMA2 (Reality Engine 3)
ARMA3 = Reality Engine 4

But funny how game that DO more than other games (and thus require more power) are deemded buggy/unoptimized by people with NO knowlegde of engines.

But it dosn't change the fact that my original statement still stands...despite your fallcies.

 

[SlowSpyder]

ARMA3 would like a word with you....as a starter...

I don't play ARMA3 as I don't generally play first person shooters. But a quick search shows the 8150 doesn't appear to have too much trouble with this game. Slower than other processors? Sure, absolutely. But quite far from not playable on the 8150, don't you think?

http://www.techspot.com/review/712-arma-3-benchmarks/page5.html

 

[Lonbjerg]

I don't play ARMA3 as I don't generally play first person shooters. But a quick search shows the 8150 doesn't appear to have too much trouble with this game. Slower than other processors? Sure, absolutely. But quite far from not playable on the 8150, don't you think?

http://www.techspot.com/review/712-arma-3-benchmarks/page5.html

Dosn't look like they did any actual in-game testing...my 990X with a Titan get ~30 FPS at my settings (all max, draw distance 7400) on company nights...would hate to try that on that puny CPU...

 

[PPB]

isn't ARMA3 that buggy game from the dayz guys?

No, is the atrocious pile of code that would be a DOA game if it weren't for the Dayz guy that made his mod based on that saga.

It's the other way around.

 

[AtenRa]

So, FX8150 is not good for ARMA III, I can show you 100+ games where that puny CPU its more than enough outputting more than 60fps.

I have both the FX8350 and Core i7 3770K and I can tell you that with my HD7950 @ 1GHz in 95% of the games i dont understand the difference in gameplay unless i start Fraps and measure the frames. And that on default, OC both and it is virtually impossible to distinguish any performance discrepancies in 99% of the games.

 

[monstercameron]

So much fail...too funny ^^

Day Z = mod of ARMA2 (Reality Engine 3)
ARMA3 = Reality Engine 4

But funny how game that DO more than other games (and thus require more power) are deemded buggy/unoptimized by people with NO knowlegde of engines.

But it dosn't change the fact that my original statement still stands...despite your fallcies.

dayz was a mod of arma now it is apparently standalone, obviously dayz is the more popular of the 2 and that is why I phrased it that way. I might not be a coder but I have knowledge of game engines and arma 3 is still very buggy atleast that is what I get from the anecdotal evidence floating around the interwebs.

Bad game can't be representative of the capabilities of a richland cpu, because of bad optimization and utilization should have that color the potential.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view_all_bug_page.php
have fun...

bug report for added emphasis http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16455

In online games the screen frame rate lags / skips
(Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxdqO8_vgnU [^])
This happens even when I set all the settings at the lowest settings.
Playing in single player works fine at ultra settings.

This did start to happen after I upgraded my motherboard to a Gigabyte G1 Sniper M3 and bought another graphics card to set up a sli, removing the sli helps slightly with the frame rate (that i am returning) but does not seem to make a deference with the skipping.

Specs.
Geforce gtx 770
intel i7 3770k 3.50GHz
8.00Gb RAM
Windows 8.1 Pro
Samsung 256GB 830 SSD SATA 6GBPS

 

[SPBHM]

Well the thing is that the topic is about best bang for the buck CPUs, you can get a nice FM2+ X88 board with tones of features like the MSI A88XM-E45 at only $66.00 and pair it with Athlon II 760K at $90. You can OC to 4.2-4.4GHz with default Cooler and have Core i3+ performance with more features at lower price.

Or,

You could install the Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 only for $32.00, OC to 4.8-5GHz and get to another level of performance with more features for less than a Core i3 Haswell.

Core i3 4130 = $130.00
Core i3 4330 = $150.00

Athlon 760K = $90.00
Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 = $32.00
Total = 122.00

Not only that, you are able to upgrade to Kaveri if you need more CPU performance later on.

To sum up, you pay less for more features with AMD CPUs/APUs/Motherboards than Intel or you get higher performance at lower or the same price(When OC)

At entry level (H81 + Pentium), with Intel you sacrifice Features, MultiThreding Performance and OverClocking at the same price as AMD 750K + X75/87 boards. Same applies for mainstream (Core i3).
It is only the high end H87/Z78 with Core i5/7 that Intel can give you same features and higher performance but at higher prices again.

is Kaveri really a significant CPU performance upgrade anyway? the leaks didn't show that, looks like we are going to have to wait a little bit longer to have a good answer for this question, but anyway, "i3+" performance on what?

TrinityRichland performance is not really that amazing compared to haswell i3, even with much higher clock,

sure MT should be a strong point, but the difference in ST performance is not small(and even compared to the Am3+ CPUs, the lack of l3 in some limited cases can hurt)

one example using all the cores for video encoding, http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/11/14/intel-core-i3-4130-haswell-review/3 Richland at 4.7GHz can barely have any advantage over the i3 at 3.4, and that's for a usage where having 2 cores should be a bad thing, now look at the previous graphic and see the difference...

surely there are more favorable cases for the A10 (as there are many more for the i3), but still, Haswell i3 looks ok compared to it overclocked in many MT programs, it's certainly going to beat easily on ST and most games, and all of that without any OC, and comfortable TDP (it's 54w I think, but the IGP is taking some of that), doing that at a much lower TDP , without any tweaking should be an advantage.

and now with H81 (it was not the case with H61, but B75 was already almost there) offering Intel Sata III and USB 3.0 for $50 MBs, it's even harder, you can combine the i3, pentium or whatever with a $50 MB without loosing anything significant, while using some random $50 A55 MB for an overclocked Richland doesn't sound like the best idea.

you could bring the 6300 to this discussion, and it would certainlly add a significant CPU performance, but running it well with a $50 MB and stock cooler just doesn't sound that realistic, and the i3 will still hold its st advantage.


the best "bang for the buck" is not that simple

 

[BallaTheFeared]

There is no bang in these low level cpus, more like best whimper with no warranty buck.

 

[Lonbjerg]

So, FX8150 is not good for ARMA III, I can show you 100+ games where that puny CPU its more than enough outputting more than 60fps.

I have both the FX8350 and Core i7 3770K and I can tell you that with my HD7950 @ 1GHz in 95% of the games i dont understand the difference in gameplay unless i start Fraps and measure the frames. And that on default, OC both and it is virtually impossible to distinguish any performance discrepancies in 99% of the games.

Dosn't matter, the claim was "there is nothing on the market"...

Hyperbole debunked...have a nice day.