Rich vs. Poor - Bill Maher nails it.
- Thread starter wirednuts
- Start date
This was really spot on. Living in impoverished countries for most of this year, here's my take:
America is great for two reason:
1) Law and order--corruption and bribery is much less prevalent and there is a stable government that's probably the most trusted in the world in terms of 'being around tomorrow.'
2) The general welfare of the people due to 1, and the hope of opportunity to succeed.
Every country in the world has an upper class. The difference is when the gap between upper and lower becomes so great that penalties for crime do not outweigh the advantages, the rich must protect (and isolate) themselves more and more from the lower class. And the problem then snowballs because the elites are completely shut off from the day-to-day of the majority of the people--a sort of mini-Presidential bubble for all rich people.
That's why South Africans have flaming automobiles. It's like that around most of the world--gated communities, guards everywhere.. because they know what they own provides such incentive for people to take from them that they need to invest in heavy security to live a normal life.
So as much as we value the creators of value, of business, it is in our best interest to make sure everyone benefits from the extreme riches America enjoys. Almost every country creates a relatively large amount of money, the difference is in creating a stable environment where everyone can benefit.
America is great for two reason:
1) Law and order--corruption and bribery is much less prevalent and there is a stable government that's probably the most trusted in the world in terms of 'being around tomorrow.'
2) The general welfare of the people due to 1, and the hope of opportunity to succeed.
Every country in the world has an upper class. The difference is when the gap between upper and lower becomes so great that penalties for crime do not outweigh the advantages, the rich must protect (and isolate) themselves more and more from the lower class. And the problem then snowballs because the elites are completely shut off from the day-to-day of the majority of the people--a sort of mini-Presidential bubble for all rich people.
That's why South Africans have flaming automobiles. It's like that around most of the world--gated communities, guards everywhere.. because they know what they own provides such incentive for people to take from them that they need to invest in heavy security to live a normal life.
So as much as we value the creators of value, of business, it is in our best interest to make sure everyone benefits from the extreme riches America enjoys. Almost every country creates a relatively large amount of money, the difference is in creating a stable environment where everyone can benefit.
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
Bill Maher is a sensationalist and nothing more. I will say this for him though, he's highly intelligent. He's positioned himself as the left's Rush Limbaugh and has people like the OP lapping up his drivel.
Last edited:
Oh really? You don't think he makes millions of dollars and while his camera guy doesn't? Are you that obtuse?
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
This^^. I've been in countries and the car dealers there offer armored versions for the rich. They're on the showroom floor right next to the regular version. They even have a sample "shot-up" door with an explanation of what rounds it'll stop.
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
It's not nearly the 380X difference that exists with CEO's except with someone like Oprah.
Last edited:
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,940
- 10,274
- 136
There may be something to be said for banging the drum on the very rich. However, when Obama is talking in the hundred thousands range, a whole lot of middle class Americans think they're next on the table.
You're scaring people by not fixating on the wealth gap at the very top. You can fix your message and sell that, but the counter talking point is that we've built a system so expensive that tapping even ALL income to redistribute would not be enough to keep us afloat.
Is that possible, to take everything and not have enough? Perhaps there's a value buried here, equity or some such. Maybe they've stashed their money and we don't even know what we have to "work with" here.
You're scaring people by not fixating on the wealth gap at the very top. You can fix your message and sell that, but the counter talking point is that we've built a system so expensive that tapping even ALL income to redistribute would not be enough to keep us afloat.
Is that possible, to take everything and not have enough? Perhaps there's a value buried here, equity or some such. Maybe they've stashed their money and we don't even know what we have to "work with" here.
So it doesn't matter? So he gets a pass? Using your own logic, you are hypocrite.
I work for a Fortune 100 company. The CEO does not make 380 times what I make.
I mentioned this in another thread - desperation leads to violence. The situation described in the video is a systemic issue that causes several other problems.
The poorest people in this country are many times rich in other countries. People think they are entitled to everything.
I don't understand the "redistribute" argument. I am a self-employed American, and if you could please tell me where this free money is I would appreciate it very much.
If by "redistribute" you mean spend money on our Universities, which are the best in the world and I hope continue to be, ok. Or by our scientific research which also has been a world leader. Or by our military which allows us to control world markets and facilitate the growth of our corporations. But I disagree that "redistribute" means we are artificially correcting the imbalance and taking from the rich and giving to the poor.
If our government (state and federal) had more money from the vast production of wealth it facilitates, we could grow even further. Our government is the best in the world in terms of law and order, and we are giving it away at bargain basement prices. That does not make sense to me.
People seem to have the idea that the government that charges (taxes) the least, is the best. Because businesses only care about cost. Let me tell you there are cheaper places to headquarter a business and manufacture but you won't see Boeing moving to Mexico tomorrow.
They also care about risk, and quality or human resources, etc., and I don't doubt we could double the cost of doing business here while continuing to improve the quality of our workforce and companies would have no problem saying the U.S. is still the best place to set up shop in the world.
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
Are you a average low level employee? Besides Maher is an employee, for a fair comparison, you'd take the camerman vs the CEO of HBO.
Last edited:
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
- 126
Feel free to hire one of those poor people in whatever capacity for the "living wage" you deem appropriate.
<crickets>
Oh, my bad, I forgot you were a progressive and you don't do that, you expect some other "rich guy" to do it for you. And then complain when they don't do it to the standard you expect.
Matt1970
Lifer
- Mar 19, 2007
- 12,320
- 3
- 0
Where do we draw the line with income redistribution and is it on a global level? Those that want to redistribute wealth want it to stop when it hits their income level and only want it for the US seeing as that is where most of the wealth is. Come on now, to be fair we need a global sytem of redistribution of wealth. A $70 Trillion global GDP divided amongst the 7 Billion people on the earth is a nice $10,000 for everyone. Of course those that relied on their money to make more money will now not be able to earn as much so the next years GDP and GDP and subsequent redistributions will be less.
Matt1970
Lifer
- Mar 19, 2007
- 12,320
- 3
- 0
Technically the CEO is an employee for a lot of corporations. They have a salary and are hired and fired by the board of directors
Like I said, if you can please show me where I pick up my percent of Bill Gates' money I would appreciate it. You're taking a situation which doesn't exist and presenting it in its most extreme.
"Redistribution," in reality, is money the government uses to spend on military, healthcare, the elderly, and I'd hope more on education and infrastructure.
So no, I do not support distributing the world's wealth to everyone equally. I support spending money to make sure we continue to have the best country in the world. And our product (the U.S. government) is severely undercharging for its services, which we all help to produce and maintain.
Not that global poverty is not a problem. But the government's scope is limited to what it can govern.. in this case the United States.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
My CEO only makes 2-3x what I do. I'll bet Maher's salaries is many multiples higher than that compared to his grunts.
Attic
Diamond Member
- Jan 9, 2010
- 4,282
- 2
- 76
What to do about it though? Obama should be a wake up call to the ineptness of government, in it's current paradigm, to tackle this kind of problem. I say that b/c Obama genuinely came across as a guy who understood the problem and wanted to begin to bridge the wealth gap. Yet the wealth gap has increased during his time in office.
Bill Maher has some good points, but they fall flat more than anything because of his numerous outrageous and highly partisan claims.
Perhaps if when we tuned into the nightly news and saw families going hungry or without heat, and were given a meaningful gauge of how many people it impacts, then we might focus on it and find a solution.
Policy needs to accept people are highly selfish and not altruistic, because our only solution now to growing problems in the nation is for the rich and powerful to magically change into altruistic entities.
Cliffs: Take money out of politics if you want to even the playing field between the haves and have not's.
Bill Maher has some good points, but they fall flat more than anything because of his numerous outrageous and highly partisan claims.
Perhaps if when we tuned into the nightly news and saw families going hungry or without heat, and were given a meaningful gauge of how many people it impacts, then we might focus on it and find a solution.
Policy needs to accept people are highly selfish and not altruistic, because our only solution now to growing problems in the nation is for the rich and powerful to magically change into altruistic entities.
Cliffs: Take money out of politics if you want to even the playing field between the haves and have not's.
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
wow i dont think you could be any more wrong about that... you clearly dont watch
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter