Rich-Poor income gap growing

[BlancoNino]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060127/ap_on_re_us/income_gap

The report by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Economic Policy Institute, both liberal-leaning think tanks, found the incomes of the poorest 20 percent of families nationally grew by an average of $2,660, or 19 percent, over the past 20 years. Meanwhile, the incomes of the richest fifth of families grew by $45,100, or nearly 59 percent, the study by the Washington-based groups said.

Families in the middle fifth saw their incomes rise 28 percent, or $10,218.

The figures, based on U.S. Census data, compare the average growth from 1980-82 to 2001-03, after adjusting for inflation.

The poorest one-fifth of families, the report said, had an average income of $16,780 from 2000-03, while the top fifth of families had an average income of $122,150 ? more than seven times as much. Middle-income families' average income was $46,875.

So the rich are getting richer. BUT, the poor aren't getting poorer. Let me make that clear, as the poor have it so much easier today than they did 30+ years ago.

 

[zendari]

Liberals look at wealth as pieces of a pie in a vacuum.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
So the rich are getting richer. BUT, the poor aren't getting poorer. Let me make that clear, as the poor have it so much easier today than they did 30+ years ago.

Wouldn't it be ideal if they all grew richer at roughly the same rate?

There was a great boost to average wages from 1996 to 2003. But from 2003 to 2005, this is dropping. So, technically, over a long 20-year period the poor aren't getting poorer. Over a shorter 2-year period, poor are getting poorer.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060127/ap_on_re_us/income_gap

The report by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Economic Policy Institute, both liberal-leaning think tanks, found the incomes of the poorest 20 percent of families nationally grew by an average of $2,660, or 19 percent, over the past 20 years. Meanwhile, the incomes of the richest fifth of families grew by $45,100, or nearly 59 percent, the study by the Washington-based groups said.

Families in the middle fifth saw their incomes rise 28 percent, or $10,218.

The figures, based on U.S. Census data, compare the average growth from 1980-82 to 2001-03, after adjusting for inflation.

The poorest one-fifth of families, the report said, had an average income of $16,780 from 2000-03, while the top fifth of families had an average income of $122,150 ? more than seven times as much. Middle-income families' average income was $46,875.

So the rich are getting richer. BUT, the poor aren't getting poorer. Let me make that clear, as the poor have it so much easier today than they did 30+ years ago.

Looks like everything is going according to plan. Soon we won't even need to institute a birthright-type caste system. All that remains to be done is to completely eliminate opportunities for higher education for the poor.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

Be careful with that statement. Like I said above, incomes did rise faster than inflation over a 20 year span. But the reverse is true over the last 2 years.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see that same data after tax. Tax rates changed drastically in the last 20 years.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: dullard

Wouldn't it be ideal if they all grew richer at roughly the same rate?

There was a great boost to average wages from 1996 to 2003. But from 2003 to 2005, this is dropping. So, technically, over a long 20-year period the poor aren't getting poorer. Over a shorter 2-year period, poor are getting poorer.

It would be idea, but it doesn't fit the equation. The more of something you have, the more of something you can have. This applies with money, knowledge, technology, and power...to name a few.

This shouldn't come as a surprise. If you're dropping millions of dollars a year, chances are you can invest it someway (open up a business, stocks, etc) to make even more.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

Be careful with that statement. Like I said above, incomes did rise faster than inflation over a 20 year span. But the reverse is true over the last 2 years.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see that same data after tax. Tax rates changed drastically in the last 20 years.

They have fluctuated quite a bit. It can be argued that the trickle-down theory doesn't work, but it can also be argued that letting the government decide what's best doesn't work either.

I think we can all agree that poor people have a lot of room for financial responsibility, maturity, and hard work. It can be nipped in the bud.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
It would be idea, but it doesn't fit the equation. The more of something you have, the more of something you can have. This applies with money, knowledge, technology, and power...to name a few.

This shouldn't come as a surprise. If you're dropping millions of dollars a year, chances are you can invest it someway (open up a business, stocks, etc) to make even more.

The problem is that the rich/poor ratio cannot grow indefinately. The gap can certainly grow year after year for many years. But there are limits. Many times in world history this gap has risen over years only to come crashing back down to reasonable levels. I don't think this will happen any time soon (at least not in this generation). But it is something that will eventually happen. I just think it would be ideal if this oscillation didn't occur and somehow they can both grow together at a more similar rate.

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
They have fluctuated quite a bit. It can be argued that the trickle-down theory doesn't work, but it can also be argued that letting the government decide what's best doesn't work either.

I think we can all agree that poor people have a lot of room for financial responsibility, maturity, and hard work. It can be nipped in the bud.

I agree with you there. Trickle-down has never been shown to work. But government forcing things usually doesn't work either. Yes, the poor can and should work harder. But we should be certain they at least have the opportunity to advance when they do work harder.

Don't give a starving man a fish (it'll do no good in the long term). Don't teach a starving man to fish (he doesn't have the strength to reel it in). Instead, feed the starving man a fish while you teach him to fish. If he starves after all that, then he is a lost cause.

 

[conjur]

Yeah! We're turning into Brazil and headed into Argentina! Yippee!!

BTW, wonder how things would look when healthcare and energy costs were factored in, esp. given the poor pay a much larger % of their take-home pay for those two.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

Be careful with that statement. Like I said above, incomes did rise faster than inflation over a 20 year span. But the reverse is true over the last 2 years.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see that same data after tax. Tax rates changed drastically in the last 20 years.

I'm confused. Is the above 19% growth over 20 years inflation adjusted? If not, does anyone think that inflation grew less than 19% over that 20 year span? How about 28%? Hell, it's grown 10% over the last 3 years.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

Be careful with that statement. Like I said above, incomes did rise faster than inflation over a 20 year span. But the reverse is true over the last 2 years.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see that same data after tax. Tax rates changed drastically in the last 20 years.

I'm confused. Is the above 19% growth over 20 years inflation adjusted? If not, does anyone think that inflation grew less than 19% over that 20 year span? How about 28%? Hell, it's grown 10% over the last 3 years.

The figures are adjusted for inflation.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

Be careful with that statement. Like I said above, incomes did rise faster than inflation over a 20 year span. But the reverse is true over the last 2 years.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see that same data after tax. Tax rates changed drastically in the last 20 years.

I'm confused. Is the above 19% growth over 20 years inflation adjusted? If not, does anyone think that inflation grew less than 19% over that 20 year span? How about 28%? Hell, it's grown 10% over the last 3 years.

The figures are adjusted for inflation.

Thanks. Then disregard my above 2nd half statement.

 

[smack Down]

So the rich are getting richer. BUT, the poor aren't getting poorer. Let me make that clear, as the poor have it so much easier today than they did 30+ years ago.

And I bet that really has most neo cons pissed.

 

[ntdz]

Can you show me a point in the last 100 years when the income gap WASN'T growing please?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: conjur
Yeah! We're turning into Brazil and headed into Argentina! Yippee!!

BTW, wonder how things would look when healthcare and energy costs were factored in, esp. given the poor pay a much larger % of their take-home pay for those two.

And how is the quality of healthcare now compared to 20 years ago?

 

[Todd33]

How are health care and energy cost rising? More income does not mean more disposable income.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: conjur
Yeah! We're turning into Brazil and headed into Argentina! Yippee!!

BTW, wonder how things would look when healthcare and energy costs were factored in, esp. given the poor pay a much larger % of their take-home pay for those two.

And how is the quality of healthcare now compared to 20 years ago?

And what is the price of eggs in Denmark?

Your non sequitir is duly noted and dismissed.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Can you show me a point in the last 100 years when the income gap WASN'T growing please?

Sure thing, but like normal you'll probably ignore it. See figure 1. Income gap dropped from 1947-1968. It may or may not have been dropping before/during the war, but I've never looked for data earlier than that.

 

[Genx87]

I have a feeling investments are making this change increase. People in the middle and upper brackets have disposable income they can put into investments such as bonds, stocks, and property that may pay income on a yearly basis and increase their bottom line. Where the poor obviously lack this disposable income and are left behind.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: ntdz
Can you show me a point in the last 100 years when the income gap WASN'T growing please?

Sure thing, but like normal you'll probably ignore it. See figure 1. Income gap dropped from 1947-1968. It may or may not have been dropping before/during the war, but I've never looked for data earlier than that.

Heck, there weren't near as many 2 income families in that 47 to 68 time period as there are now either.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Incomes aren't even rising at the rate of inflation. People ARE getting poorer.

you can lead a horse to water...

compare the average growth from 1980-82 to 2001-03, after adjusting for inflation.

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: conjur
Yeah! We're turning into Brazil and headed into Argentina! Yippee!!

BTW, wonder how things would look when healthcare and energy costs were factored in, esp. given the poor pay a much larger % of their take-home pay for those two.

The poor don't pay healthcare or heating or utilities. There is heating assistance, telephone assistance, food stamps, housing assistance, and government insurance at least for women and children. I agree, we have a responsibility to make sure everyone is taken care of, but with the possible exception of insurance, I don't think this country does near as bad of a job at it as many try to make out. Now how well these programs are communicated to the poor, I'm not sure. Granted, I don't know how well you can live on these programs in the expensive parts of the country, but at least the places I've lived the people I have known on these programs have done okay.

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: ntdz
Can you show me a point in the last 100 years when the income gap WASN'T growing please?

Sure thing, but like normal you'll probably ignore it. See figure 1. Income gap dropped from 1947-1968. It may or may not have been dropping before/during the war, but I've never looked for data earlier than that.

Heck, there weren't near as many 2 income families in that 47 to 68 time period as there are now either.

Very true, but I think this is just a natural economic adjustment. If you increase the supply of something, the cost goes down. I think that works with labor as well. As more of the population seek jobs, those jobs will go for a lower salary.

 

[RichardE]

People are poor for a reason, the decisions they made.