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Rice: Pullout from Iraq ?fairly soon'
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Lemon law
Lifer
Pull back in to Syria?----but to really show how stupid the dub is, consider Lebanon--another flash point
Many years ago, Lebanon was the banking center of the mid-east--until a civil wat tore it apart. First, Isreal and the United States tried to kep the peace--that failed---then Syria stepped in at no cost to us. But that occupation became untenable after the assination of Hurria ( spelling probably not correct ) and now Syria must leave.-----by universal demand.--on the suspicion that elements in
the Syrian government sponsored the assination.---but its still a stretch that it was offical government policy--might well be a rouge unit that exceded its authority.
Rather than diplomatically say that Syria did play some role in keeping the peace in Lebanon and now we must do something, the dub could not resist the temtation to alienate and demonise Syria rather than simply seek international co-operation on what to do about Lebanon in light of recent events.
Isn't Bush plate full enough? Why go out of your way to piss everyone off even more.
Given that Syria is not very friendly to us, why make them even angrier?
Many years ago, Lebanon was the banking center of the mid-east--until a civil wat tore it apart. First, Isreal and the United States tried to kep the peace--that failed---then Syria stepped in at no cost to us. But that occupation became untenable after the assination of Hurria ( spelling probably not correct ) and now Syria must leave.-----by universal demand.--on the suspicion that elements in
the Syrian government sponsored the assination.---but its still a stretch that it was offical government policy--might well be a rouge unit that exceded its authority.
Rather than diplomatically say that Syria did play some role in keeping the peace in Lebanon and now we must do something, the dub could not resist the temtation to alienate and demonise Syria rather than simply seek international co-operation on what to do about Lebanon in light of recent events.
Isn't Bush plate full enough? Why go out of your way to piss everyone off even more.
Given that Syria is not very friendly to us, why make them even angrier?
Oh, lookee lookee.
The "insurgency leaders" magically want to join in the political process!
Iraqi Official Says He Received Call From Resistance Leader
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/25/inter...nnlx=1132976225-ZFI+ud9FiEKevLqhfhMq/w
What a crock of catapaulted propaganda!!
Must be a relative of al-Samarraie. They're both pretty piss-poor liars. Dr. Lies would have been better off making the announcement herself. Perhaps they'll send Karen Hughes over to confirm. :laugh:
trenchfoot
Lifer
methinks that condi's statement is valid until the poll numbers change or just after the '06 elections upon which she'll do a strategic flip, and if we're still in iraq pror to the '08 elections she'll whip that statement out again in a timely manner and repeat that con job until no longer effective or necessary.
Lemon law
Lifer
Condi's satements are always vague generalities and will smoothly change to mollify the public and the current situation.
The facts seem to be that the Bush administration correctly predicted Saddam would be a pushover
and was clueless about how to win the subsequent peace. Clueless then despite warnings, and sadly still clueless
when its probably too late.
The real question is who is now in control of events?----certainly not the USA who is reduced to hoping they can hang on
until something anything gets better.-----althought its likely to get much worse.
We are simply the 800 LB gorilla that thought it could sleep where ever it wanted.
And now discovers wise gorilla's don't bed down on top of anthills.
But in terms of "repeat that con job until its no longer effective or necessary",
the time for trusting Condi or the Bush team is long past.
Platitudes never cure real problems---------but platitudes change to suit the politics of the moment.
I long ago decided the hell with Condi and the rest of the morally bankrupt ones.
The real question will it be off to the Hague or jail with Condi when her files are cracked open and we learn of all the
LIES SHE TOLD US AND IS TELLING STILL.
The facts seem to be that the Bush administration correctly predicted Saddam would be a pushover
and was clueless about how to win the subsequent peace. Clueless then despite warnings, and sadly still clueless
when its probably too late.
The real question is who is now in control of events?----certainly not the USA who is reduced to hoping they can hang on
until something anything gets better.-----althought its likely to get much worse.
We are simply the 800 LB gorilla that thought it could sleep where ever it wanted.
And now discovers wise gorilla's don't bed down on top of anthills.
But in terms of "repeat that con job until its no longer effective or necessary",
the time for trusting Condi or the Bush team is long past.
Platitudes never cure real problems---------but platitudes change to suit the politics of the moment.
I long ago decided the hell with Condi and the rest of the morally bankrupt ones.
The real question will it be off to the Hague or jail with Condi when her files are cracked open and we learn of all the
LIES SHE TOLD US AND IS TELLING STILL.
Pullout to be replaced with:
Increased US air support
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/27/le.01.html
Lovely.
Increased US air support
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/27/le.01.html
Lovely.
Senator Warner on Meet The Press this morning was talking about turning artillery troops into infantry. Changing Natl Guard units from other to Military Police. In other words, he proposes the Army begin to feed upon itself to continue the mission in Iraq.
"SEN. WARNER: Joe, when I talked to Pace yesterday, he said one of the means with which we're going to maintain those force levels is what we call cross-training, taking certain segments of the Army and retraining them in 30 to 60 days to perform the basic fighting we see against the insurgents, take elements of the Guard, which might take a little longer. You know, artillery men can become infantry men, artillery men can become policemen."
Meet The Press
Rumsfeld never liked the concept of artillery. They have already converted tank units into infantry, extended their tours and are still shorthanded.
"SEN. WARNER: Joe, when I talked to Pace yesterday, he said one of the means with which we're going to maintain those force levels is what we call cross-training, taking certain segments of the Army and retraining them in 30 to 60 days to perform the basic fighting we see against the insurgents, take elements of the Guard, which might take a little longer. You know, artillery men can become infantry men, artillery men can become policemen."
Meet The Press
Rumsfeld never liked the concept of artillery. They have already converted tank units into infantry, extended their tours and are still shorthanded.
Lemon law
Lifer
Stunt,
The concept that republicans would or could flip flop like democrats?--how dare you think it.
You clearly have not been listening to Halle Barber and his successors like Rove. Everyone knows democrats come from the Waffle House.-----------all them political adds-----all that money spent---------and you still have not learned the truth.
Guess the R's need to spend more money on political adds to ram that only democrats waffle message home.
So when the Republicans do waffle on Iraq, it can't be called waffling----they will invent some new politically brillant slogan.--right up there with no child left behind.
Any ideas on what it might be?-----peace with honor is already taken.
How about democracy is wasted on infidels? Or Bush was right and they were wrong? Or it was right to try?
The concept that republicans would or could flip flop like democrats?--how dare you think it.
You clearly have not been listening to Halle Barber and his successors like Rove. Everyone knows democrats come from the Waffle House.-----------all them political adds-----all that money spent---------and you still have not learned the truth.
Guess the R's need to spend more money on political adds to ram that only democrats waffle message home.
So when the Republicans do waffle on Iraq, it can't be called waffling----they will invent some new politically brillant slogan.--right up there with no child left behind.
Any ideas on what it might be?-----peace with honor is already taken.
How about democracy is wasted on infidels? Or Bush was right and they were wrong? Or it was right to try?
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
Americans have no right to demand a cultural change. No previous imperialistic power managed to bring about a cultural change with sheer force. What makes you think that a cultural change will be appreciated by people? You're right. You won't fix the place. However, you must pay for the stupidity of your actions. If the US leaves Iraq, it will be the new Afghanistan, a new safer haven for terrorists. This time however, americans will not be the only victims.
This is imperial arrogance. Iraq is a country, not a theatre where America is free to do as it pleases. It has reduced its own security by fighting illegal wars and angering thousands of oppressed people, fueled by religious extremism and charasmatic leaders. The american thirst for oil has only managed to fuel hatred and terrorism. The american military is not much better than these terrorists. Torture, rape, murder! Thats barbaric. I can not yet comprehend how some americans manage to dismiss Islam as uncivilized and barbaric.
coolkatz321
Senior member
Pullout? I'll believe that when me sh1t turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet. (hopefully everyone understands the movie comment. If not, see Super Troopers)
Question : Is the world a better or worse place with Saddam Hussein imprisoned and his sons dead? Yes or No? That question alone should answer why we went over there.
You ask "Why did WE go and take him out?"
My answer : Who else is going to do it? The UN? How can an organization go and attack one of its own? Iraq and a significant amount of pro-terrorism nations are a part of the UN.The UN is a JOKE anyway.
Liberals talk about civil rights, womens rights, saving lives, improving humanity, yet when we (Americans) have a chance to gain freedom for another person, they are the first to run. The soldiers that have died over there are heros, cut down in battle, not victims of a Republican war. John Kerry, Bill Clinton Ted Kennedy have all called for the removal of Hussein. They change their mind, not because thats what they believe, but because they see an opportunity to gain power and wealth for themselves. How greedy can you get?
America need to put its money were its mouth has bee since 1954. If we're all about freedom and rights, why are our "leaders" scare to give those rights to others?
coolkatz321
Senior member
I'm sure I'm going to get hit hard for saying this, but YES, THE WORLD WAS BETTER WITH SADDAM. THERE YOU GO. We went into a country, and essentially destroyed it. The amount of people we have killed would have taken Saddam years and years to do. Soldiers are dead. Why did we go into Iraq? WMD's that weren't there. The Iraq war has been a huge mistake, and until the GOP is able to recognize we never should have gone in there, problems are going to continue.
jjzelinski
Diamond Member
I've copied an excellent summary by Lemon Law in the "cross hairs" thread. Removing Saddam was a bad thing, here's why:
"This idea that Shia death squads or Sunni deathsquads could be the precursor to civil war in Iraq
has some validity-----but fails on the inefficent.
It takes a large military with artillery, heavy weapons, and organized command an control to really kill large numbers in a short time.-------everything a small malita is not.
What small scale killing could do is drag neighboring countries in that do have the militaries to protect the oppressed.
Consider.
The monarchy in Saudia Arabia is hanging on by a thread
Iran is itching to assert its leadership
Egypt has its problems also.
The Turks are worried about its large Kurdish minority getting ideas.
Lebanon has already gone civil war, Syria is a player, and Jordan could destabalise.
Isreal is too strong to attack but unites many in hatred.
All that oil wealth ripe for the taking.
A moment in time that calls for a great arab hope to unite all. The next Nasser
And you get an idea of just how much of a powder keg the entire mid-east is. We already know Bush lit the fuse. And there are no end to the worse case senarios
A best case senarios are few and now improbable.
The US has the military might to check any one neighnoring country from intervening in Iraq.
But if three or more move independently, things could go to hell in a handbasket real quick.
Any event can short curcuit the fuse and really blow things sky high. And the one sure thing that would be likely to do it is the US pulling out now.
But the probability of small scale Sunni or Shia killing being the conduit for civil war alone is low."
Now tell me, how is the world better off without Saddam? I'm sure you're just chomping at the bit to call me Un-American or whatever but it's plain as day removing Saddam has left, as Arsbanned put it, a power vaccum that may have seriously destabalized the entire mid-east. Things have gotten ALOT worse in the last 3 years, and it's going to get alot worse before it gets better.
The worst part about it is all of the people that the NEO-CONS have scorned for the last 3 1/2 years have been predicted this since before we ever invaded Iraq. It was plain as day how this was going to pan out, and sure enough here we are.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
Ive got sad news. Two of my close freinds were killed yesterday in Baghdad 🙁 They were Britons.
Lemon law
Lifer
Very Sorry to hear that.
We need reminding that while we play keyboard generals, people are dying.
That sadly is the bottomline.
As a US citizen, I am not sure I want my leaders to come from a military background, but if they do,
I want to make sure those that do have experienced the feeling of bullets being fired at them. Or having the experience of seeing a buddy next to them killed. War is far from being an organised
bore.
We need reminding that while we play keyboard generals, people are dying.
That sadly is the bottomline.
As a US citizen, I am not sure I want my leaders to come from a military background, but if they do,
I want to make sure those that do have experienced the feeling of bullets being fired at them. Or having the experience of seeing a buddy next to them killed. War is far from being an organised
bore.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
I am sorry for your loss.
Lemon law
Lifer
A few big mistakes here.
1. Believing anything Rush the windbag says.
2. Believing anything Bush says.-----he may have grand plans but they seem to have
a habit of falling apart when exposed to reality. But since Bush and Rice seem to parrot the
same party line, count on the plans to have the usual vague meaninglessness. Or exactly what Condi has been saying from a less articulate speaker.----so don't count on correct use of English grammer.
1. Believing anything Rush the windbag says.
2. Believing anything Bush says.-----he may have grand plans but they seem to have
a habit of falling apart when exposed to reality. But since Bush and Rice seem to parrot the
same party line, count on the plans to have the usual vague meaninglessness. Or exactly what Condi has been saying from a less articulate speaker.----so don't count on correct use of English grammer.
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