RIAA: Black Friday RIAA Protest & Boycott organization starting here - Keep tuned

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
ill spread the word at LSU and LA DOTD. Heck, I'll even make some fliers and post them around...

Hi Chris,

I can't PM back because I was dumped off the subscription servers and looks like they will not be bringing subscriptions back.

Fliers around College Campuses will be a good idea, once we have the final info of things to do on that day.
Because it will be over a Holiday weekend should probably put on the Flier "If this trashing of Freedom and Technologivcal innovation interests you then take this Flier" since there practically be no one on any College Campuses for the Black Friday itself.

This would be the biggest "Flash Mob" ever put together but this time has a cause.

 

[Red Dawn]

Music industry doesn't know what else to do as it lashes out at file-sharing

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: apoppin
I guess you didn't bother to read the thread . . .

The FAILURE to understand is YOURs

Actually I did.

The RIAA uses P2P technology to find out who is providing others with copywrited matierals. They trace back to the source and get an IP address. Then they contact the owner of the IP to find out who was using it and then sue the individual who is distributing their works.

Seems pretty fair to me.

Now there were quite a few posts that went of on a couple of tangents.

Someone posted that the RIAA was found guilty of price fixing when that is a false statement. They settled to end legal action. Unfortunatly most people seem to think if someone settles that implys guilt. There are of course several reasons to settle a civil suit.

1. You are going to lose anyway, it may be cheaper to settle.
2. Public awareness, the longer a trial goes on the more press it gets. If you are acused of something enough times people will tend to start beleiving it.
3. The cost to defend your self is higher than the cost to settle, This is actually the most common reason large companies and groups settle, MONEY. If It is going to cost me 10 million to defend myself and you will let me settle for 3 million I would be stupid not to. ANd if the CLass action lawers really had the RIAA by the balls why did they settle. It takes two to tango on these settlement deals.

Dave has gone on and on about the RIAA's attempt to "stop technology" yes they have tried to stop technology that is used to steal from them. This isn't to say that there are not legitimate uses for P2P software but what are they. Aimster tried to claim that their software was not designed to streal however the court found that in fact it was. These companies walk a very fine line and some of them cross it.

People are bitching that the penalty is to high for the crime. However the penalties in our criminal justace system are not only for punishment they are deterants. People typically follow the law to prevent themsleve from prosicution and the penalties that come with them.

There also is alot of people who are claiming that while they don't use P2P or steal music they feel the RIAA is wrong for going after those who do. This simply does not make sense to me. I don't use P2P to download or share copywrited works I am all for a company using it's power to stop people from stealing it.

It would seem that most of the people who rally against the RIAA don't seem to understand that this is a reaction and not just something that they "wanted to do" The RIAA has reacted to to a growing problem and has reacted to stop it.

There has also been qquite a few post that complain that the Recording industry needs to wake up and start distributing music cheaply online in a format that I am free to do with as I please. I agree with this BUT I undeerstand why they havent. People will always use free over any other price. there will come a time where they will have to distribute over the net and there has been two sucessful launchs in the last few months, but that choice is up to the owner of the copyright. Not you or me or anyone else. If mettalica want to sell it's music over the net they can, there is no law stopping then however they choose not to and they may be dumb or misguided BUT it is their choice, not mine not your.

I am all for people talking with their wallets and IF you truely believe that the RIAA has wronged you then you should be part of the boycott. But ask yourself what has the RIAA done to you that was wrong. of course there are many complaints.
1. They overcharged me and ripped me off.
Ok but you let them, there is no NEED for music and the way to get the prices down is to stop buying it. You see I have this little device in my car that allows me to listen to music all day should I want called a radio and I don't pay for any of it
Sure I need to listen to commercials and I might have to wait for a perticular song to come on BUT it is free. If you want convience and no ads it is going to cost you.

2.they are infringing on my fair use rights
Yeah after you buy the CD you can't share it with your 6 million friends on KaZaA. Nice. I don not agree with the copy protection schemes BUT I do understand why. I do believe that if a CD has copyprotection it should be CLEARLY MARKED that it does. Let the consumer make the choice.

3. They want me to PAY FOR crappy music

Well I guess the music aint to crappy if you downloaded it and shared it on KaZaA is it? What you should say is I like it but not enough to pay for it. But that is kinda the way that people and companies make money. You see they provide a product or service and people pay for it. The customer get the Product or service and company gets money. You take that money this out and the whole works is kinda flawed.

4.People claim they just want to test it out. If they like it they will buy it.
How many people would agree that if there boss told them at the end of the week they would decide hif and how much you would get paid. If your boss feels your work was crappy he just won't pay you and you can try again next week. I know that I wouldn't go for this nor would most people. Now if my boss thinks my work is subpar he can choose to terminate my employemnent and pay me our agreed rate up to the time of termination. If he decided to just not pay me I could (and would) sue and I would win with very little effort.
So if you buy something that is crap don't buy ANYMORE learn from your mistakes.If you buy the first 7 backdoor boys CD's and hate everyone of them don't claim you were ripped of by buying the 8th. You are a moron.

 

[Palek]

Well said, tm37.

 

[Wingznut]

tm37 gets the award for "Best Post of the Year"!!!

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Palek
Well said, tm37.

Originally posted by: Wingznut
tm37 gets the award for "Best Post of the Year"!!!

Thank you

 

[Golgatha]

The thing that pisses me off the most, is that I can't download from a P2P period according to the RIAA. I own close to 400 CDs, and I'll be damned if I can't legally download every song on every one of those CDs. The thing is that the RIAA is going after the "big fish" sharers, who make those titles available for legal download. I really don't see any difference in this and recording off of TV myself, in that TV recording is of lower quality, and the video you capture could be sold illegally for a profit. Their stance against P2P seems contrary to their sales tactics too. They bombard me with new songs on the radio day in and day out, so why not just let me choose what to listen to directly? The stuff you download is normally very poor quality, and I imagine most folks would buy the CD if they like a few songs from a particular artist.

My boycott has always been with my dollars, and for the few CDs I buy now, I get them from a local used dealer. It wouldn't be a stretch for me to boycott on black friday.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
tm37 gets the award for "Best Post of the Year"!!!

I don't see why.

 

[Red Dawn]

if you buy something that is crap don't buy ANYMORE learn from your mistakes.

IMO, a perfect reason to Boycott the RIAA. Hurt them in their pocket books and they will be forced to change their ways and adopt a more consumer friendly way of music distribution. Allowing Consumers to purchase and download singles for a fair price by way of an online store will curb Piracy. I think that it will also demonstrate that the drop in CD sales isn't due as much to File Swappers as it is to a slow economy and competition for disposable income of their #1 target audience, the 15 to 25 age bracket. Of course it could also help their bottom line by reaching those who don't pirate music but forgo purchasing over priced CD's that have only one or two decent songs on it because of the conveyance and value.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

if you buy something that is crap don't buy ANYMORE learn from your mistakes.

IMO, a perfect reason to Boycott the RIAA. Hurt them in their pocket books and they will be forced to change their ways and adopt a more consumer friendly way of music distribution. Allowing Consumers to purchase and download singles for a fair price by way of an online store will curb Piracy. I think that it will also demonstrate that the drop in CD sales isn't due as much to File Swappers as it is to a slow economy and competition for disposable income of their #1 target audience, the 15 to 25 age bracket. Of course it could also help their bottom line by reaching those who don't pirate music but forgo purchasing over priced CD's that have only one or two decent songs on it because of the conveyance and value.

Yet it will not eliminate it.

Given the coice of pay one dollar or getting it free most people will choose free.

I agree that the boycott is a good idea IF you disagree with the RIAA bussiness practices, Yet I still stand behind my statements that the RIAA's poor bussiness practices or reason to steal from them.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
The thing that pisses me off the most, is that I can't download from a P2P period according to the RIAA. I own close to 400 CDs, and I'll be damned if I can't legally download every song on every one of those CDs. The thing is that the RIAA is going after the "big fish" sharers, who make those titles available for legal download.

Maybe you do own ~400 CD's... And maybe most of what you download, you do actually own. HOWEVER...

Everyone knows you are part of an incredible minority that might do P2P legally. The overwhelming majority of people who download music, are doing it illegally.

Btw, why wouldn't you just rip it yourself if you own the CD? You'd get better quality, less hassle, zero risk of virii, etc.

 

[Red Dawn]

Yet it will not eliminate it.

Nope,especially if they ignore the problem, by that I mean the real Piracy taking place in Asia and Eastern Europe. That is where they are taking a big hit due to Piracy. Software Companies too. It's easy to pick on and blame the small fry while ignoring those who steal from them whole sale

Given the coice of pay one dollar or getting it free most people will choose free

So according to you most people are dishonest? Must be nice up on that Pedestal. Lately according to the experience of others, getting a decent sounding MP3 off of the P2P Program is hit and miss. Personally I would rather spend $5 a week to get all the good new music that is out there than waste my time trying to download a crappy sounding or a sabotaged MP3. I'm willing to bet that a lot of others feel the same. Of course there will be those who flat refuse to pay for it but there are always going to be people like that and there is nothing the Industry can do about it.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
The thing that pisses me off the most, is that I can't download from a P2P period according to the RIAA. I own close to 400 CDs, and I'll be damned if I can't legally download every song on every one of those CDs. The thing is that the RIAA is going after the "big fish" sharers, who make those titles available for legal download. I really don't see any difference in this and recording off of TV myself, in that TV recording is of lower quality, and the video you capture could be sold illegally for a profit. Their stance against P2P seems contrary to their sales tactics too. They bombard me with new songs on the radio day in and day out, so why not just let me choose what to listen to directly? The stuff you download is normally very poor quality, and I imagine most folks would buy the CD if they like a few songs from a particular artist.

My boycott has always been with my dollars, and for the few CDs I buy now, I get them from a local used dealer. It wouldn't be a stretch for me to boycott on black friday.

Re:the statement I bolded, the question is, WTF would you want to download something you already own?? If you just want it in MP3 format, you'll get incredibly better quality by simply ripping the CD yourself with EAC and encoding with LAME. If you're simply concerned with the principle of the matter,say, your CD is scratched and won't play and you want to download "replacements", well, I would tend to agree with you there. However, it should be from some place provided by the record company for just such a situation and, most likely, involve a subscription fee to cover their cost of the bandwidth.

Just another take on the subject.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: apoppin
I guess you didn't bother to read the thread . . .

The FAILURE to understand is YOURs

Actually I did.

The RIAA uses P2P technology to find out who is providing others with copywrited matierals. They trace back to the source and get an IP address. Then they contact the owner of the IP to find out who was using it and then sue the individual who is distributing their works.

Seems pretty fair to me.

Now there were quite a few posts that went of on a couple of tangents.

Someone posted that the RIAA was found guilty of price fixing when that is a false statement. They settled to end legal action. Unfortunatly most people seem to think if someone settles that implys guilt. There are of course several reasons to settle a civil suit.

1. You are going to lose anyway, it may be cheaper to settle.
2. Public awareness, the longer a trial goes on the more press it gets. If you are acused of something enough times people will tend to start beleiving it.
3. The cost to defend your self is higher than the cost to settle, This is actually the most common reason large companies and groups settle, MONEY. If It is going to cost me 10 million to defend myself and you will let me settle for 3 million I would be stupid not to. ANd if the CLass action lawers really had the RIAA by the balls why did they settle. It takes two to tango on these settlement deals.

Dave has gone on and on about the RIAA's attempt to "stop technology" yes they have tried to stop technology that is used to steal from them. This isn't to say that there are not legitimate uses for P2P software but what are they. Aimster tried to claim that their software was not designed to streal however the court found that in fact it was. These companies walk a very fine line and some of them cross it.

People are bitching that the penalty is to high for the crime. However the penalties in our criminal justace system are not only for punishment they are deterants. People typically follow the law to prevent themsleve from prosicution and the penalties that come with them.

There also is alot of people who are claiming that while they don't use P2P or steal music they feel the RIAA is wrong for going after those who do. This simply does not make sense to me. I don't use P2P to download or share copywrited works I am all for a company using it's power to stop people from stealing it.

It would seem that most of the people who rally against the RIAA don't seem to understand that this is a reaction and not just something that they "wanted to do" The RIAA has reacted to to a growing problem and has reacted to stop it.

There has also been qquite a few post that complain that the Recording industry needs to wake up and start distributing music cheaply online in a format that I am free to do with as I please. I agree with this BUT I undeerstand why they havent. People will always use free over any other price. there will come a time where they will have to distribute over the net and there has been two sucessful launchs in the last few months, but that choice is up to the owner of the copyright. Not you or me or anyone else. If mettalica want to sell it's music over the net they can, there is no law stopping then however they choose not to and they may be dumb or misguided BUT it is their choice, not mine not your.

I am all for people talking with their wallets and IF you truely believe that the RIAA has wronged you then you should be part of the boycott. But ask yourself what has the RIAA done to you that was wrong. of course there are many complaints.
1. They overcharged me and ripped me off.
Ok but you let them, there is no NEED for music and the way to get the prices down is to stop buying it. You see I have this little device in my car that allows me to listen to music all day should I want called a radio and I don't pay for any of it
Sure I need to listen to commercials and I might have to wait for a perticular song to come on BUT it is free. If you want convience and no ads it is going to cost you.

2.they are infringing on my fair use rights
Yeah after you buy the CD you can't share it with your 6 million friends on KaZaA. Nice. I don not agree with the copy protection schemes BUT I do understand why. I do believe that if a CD has copyprotection it should be CLEARLY MARKED that it does. Let the consumer make the choice.

3. They want me to PAY FOR crappy music

Well I guess the music aint to crappy if you downloaded it and shared it on KaZaA is it? What you should say is I like it but not enough to pay for it. But that is kinda the way that people and companies make money. You see they provide a product or service and people pay for it. The customer get the Product or service and company gets money. You take that money this out and the whole works is kinda flawed.

4.People claim they just want to test it out. If they like it they will buy it.
How many people would agree that if there boss told them at the end of the week they would decide hif and how much you would get paid. If your boss feels your work was crappy he just won't pay you and you can try again next week. I know that I wouldn't go for this nor would most people. Now if my boss thinks my work is subpar he can choose to terminate my employemnent and pay me our agreed rate up to the time of termination. If he decided to just not pay me I could (and would) sue and I would win with very little effort.
So if you buy something that is crap don't buy ANYMORE learn from your mistakes.If you buy the first 7 backdoor boys CD's and hate everyone of them don't claim you were ripped of by buying the 8th. You are a moron.

Excellent points and post tm37.

"Dave has gone on and on about the RIAA's attempt to "stop technology" yes they have tried to stop technology that is used to steal from them."

My only question to you however is this, you therefore then agree with the RIAA/MPAA getting Congress to pass Legislation making P2P Technoloy a heinous Felony crime?

Currently people are up in arms about the Civil Suits taking place now, when this Criminal Statute goes into effect people will be going to jail as if they killed someone.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Excellent points and post tm37.

"Dave has gone on and on about the RIAA's attempt to "stop technology" yes they have tried to stop technology that is used to steal from them."

My only question to you however is this, you therefore then agree with the RIAA/MPAA getting Congress to pass Legislation making P2P Technoloy a heinous Felony crime?

Currently people are up in arms about the Civil Suits taking place now, when this Criminal Statute goes into effect people will be going to jail as if they killed someone.

I think these are two separate bills, or two parts of one bill. One would make (or come close to making) all p2p applications illegal (the punishment for breaking this I don't know). There might also be an effect on distributed computing applications (if Folding@Home - or any other project - is banned, I will be PO). Not to mention that banning all p2p technology is like banning all kitchen knives or guns (all have plenty of good uses, but also can be used for bad things; in that case, punish the person that did the crime, not the freaking tool!). The other has to do with making the trading of a single song a felony with 5 years in federal "pound me in the ***" prison and a max fine of $250,000. IMHO, and IANAL, but that seems to be approaching "excessive fines" and "strange and unusual punishment" that doesn't really fit the offense.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Excellent points and post tm37.

"Dave has gone on and on about the RIAA's attempt to "stop technology" yes they have tried to stop technology that is used to steal from them."

My only question to you however is this, you therefore then agree with the RIAA/MPAA getting Congress to pass Legislation making P2P Technoloy a heinous Felony crime?

Currently people are up in arms about the Civil Suits taking place now, when this Criminal Statute goes into effect people will be going to jail as if they killed someone.

Well that is why we have public debate. You need to extreams and we definately have it. I believe it should be a crime to use P2P technology to steal music. I also believe that it should be illegal to bash someone over the head with a toaster.

The reason they are going after P2P technology is simple. They can't find another way to stop it. People have found ways around filters and that didn't slow them down. The problem is not P2P technology per say it is the users of P2P technology. Many times in our history we have taken away something because it was used primarly for an illegal act. when the P2P networks can show me a legitimate use and can stop the illegal use of there networks then and only then will P2P have a legitimate use.

And further more people will not be going to jail like they killed someone. They will be going like someone who stole and distributed copywright works which they did.

 

[Kaiser__Sose]

RIAA can't do jack against people in canada...
and the Canadian recording industry can't sue because there is a levy on blank media that was introduced a few years back.. with this legislation it became "legal" to copy music...

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: tm37

Well that is why we have public debate. You need to extreams and we definately have it. I believe it should be a crime to use P2P technology to steal music. I also believe that it should be illegal to bash someone over the head with a toaster.

Ok, on that we agree.

The reason they are going after P2P technology is simple. They can't find another way to stop it. People have found ways around filters and that didn't slow them down. The problem is not P2P technology per say it is the users of P2P technology. Many times in our history we have taken away something because it was used primarly for an illegal act. when the P2P networks can show me a legitimate use and can stop the illegal use of there networks then and only then will P2P have a legitimate use.

How about some examples of things that were taken away because they have been used primarily for an illegal act? I'm not aware of many, except for one (or two) p2p applications that billed themselves essentially as "use this to download illegal mp3s... but don't commit copyright infringement!".

How about FreeNet, which is used by Chinese people to get around their government's restrictive controls on (un)free speech, among other things? How about distributed computing applications (a variation of p2p technology) that are used to find cures for cancer, perform biological and astronomical research, etc.? You would be blind to assume that p2p is only about copyright infringement, and that it should be banned for all because some misuse it.

Oh, and instead of executing or putting in prison convicted murderers, let's just ban all guns. That will certainly make the problem go away.

And further more people will not be going to jail like they killed someone. They will be going like someone who stole and distributed copywright works which they did.

But should people go to federal prison (not jail, there's a big difference) for a felony of copying one song (not to mention the $250000 fine)? You're telling me that you think that punishment is ok? Would you still think that's ok when you see how it compares to the punishment and/or fine for stealing a $15 item from a store (shoplifting)?

 

[Viper GTS]

So when is this black Friday supposed to be?

I need to know so I can go get some CD's I want.

Viper GTS

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Kaiser__Sose
RIAA can't do jack against people in canada...
and the Canadian recording industry can't sue because there is a levy on blank media that was introduced a few years back.. with this legislation it became "legal" to copy music...

Ehhh... that doesn't sound right... Copyrights are protected internationally, and the RIAA could sue anyone if they can prove they violated their copyright. Canada doesn't really have the right to give people permission to violate copyrights like that.

BTW, great post tm37

 

[Ornery]

Hah! I read it all (glossed over some), and it makes me chuckle. Little thieves whining because they might not be able to get away with the goods so easily now. Ha ha, you fvcktards were all smug and untouchable, and now the tide has turned.

Seems you wieners ought to spend more energy contacting your leaders, rather than boycotting. Boycotting for a day!

Pool some of those dollars you saved on music over the past several years, and use it to lobby Congress yourselves!

 

[Hossenfeffer]

For those of you just skimming the thread, make sure to read tm37's stuff. It's pretty much dead on.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Hah! I read it all (glossed over some), and it makes me chuckle. Little thieves whining because they might not be able to get away with the goods so easily now. Ha ha, you fvcktards were all smug and untouchable, and now the tide has turned.

Seems you wieners ought to spend more energy contacting your leaders, rather than boycotting. Boycotting for a day!

Pool some of those dollars you saved on music over the past several years, and use it to lobby Congress yourselves!

Seems like you could use your energy for better uses besides "glossing".

Try to figure it out.

 

[Ornery]

There were MANY not worth reading at all, though I did anyway. Yours would fall in that category, too!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ornery
There were MANY not worth reading at all, though I did anyway. Yours would fall in that category, too!

You're not alone in your lack of understanding the issues and in your inability to post anything but ridicule. You're pretty shallow as usual.