RIAA: Black Friday RIAA Protest & Boycott organization starting here - Keep tuned

[Ornery]

Pay attention? This quote is entirely yours:

Many Civic Groups and Lawyers are flooded withe calls today, the onslaught on American Citizens by a Private Third Party Corporation using Federal Powers begins. A sad day indeed.

9-8-2003 RIAA Declares D-Day

Record Industry Sues Music File Swappers

The recording industry filed hundreds of lawsuits Monday against individual music lovers, accusing them of illegally downloading and sharing songs over the Internet

The industry in recent weeks also has served subpoenas on at least 10 universities in an effort to identify individual file-swappers.

it has NOTHING to do with the above MP3 file swapping nonsense.

Oh really? And this following quote means what then?

The recording industry filed hundreds of lawsuits Monday against individual music lovers, accusing them of illegally downloading and sharing songs over the Internet

Why then did they file the lawsuits?


It is the Evolutional right of humankind to progress forward. This is an attack on innovation as well as rights.

NOTHING is settled! This lame ass protest will do NOTHING. Some people are actually working on viable, fair solutions. Other people have bills in the works. Save your bitching for the people who actually caused this trouble, known to you as 'individual music lovers'.

Use your energy for something constructive like your own viable solution. Submit that to these representatives. Lord knows we spent enough time and energy on the friggin' Distributed Computing BS. Maybe you should have been concentrating that effort on helping foil your 'individual music lovers' penchant for free music.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I'm gonna take a couple stabs here...

1. They don't like prices of CD's
2. They don't like the profit distribution of the music industry
3. They feel that the punishments for music theft are too harsh
4. They don't like the recent "cripling" of music CD's that are being done to try and prevent piracy
5. They feel that the distribution of method of music is antiquated

Am I close? Is there anything I missed out on?

Thanks for answering, vi.

1.) Well, I can appreciate that... But that's basic economics at work, not the RIAA. CD's are going to cost whatever the market will bear. No different than computers, carpet, flowers, toothpaste or any other product.
2.) I can't say as though I know what the profit distribution is... But the more popular musicians seem to be doing ok. I'm guessing there are other industries with a more heinous model of profit distribution.
3.) Yeah, they are high... But that's how the American justice system works to deter others. What would be an acceptable judgement against someone who illegally downloads and distributes files?
4.) Crippling of cd's? I'm not sure I even know what that is. I guess I have yet to purchase a "crippled" cd.
5.) In a way, it definitely is. There should be more options to distribute music. But how?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ornery

NOTHING is settled! This lame ass protest will do NOTHING.

Well, I know at least one lame-ass 'do-nothinger' who is encouraging people to do nothing.

But then we are seeing some effect already - after the boycott we will see much more

But after last week?s lawsuit, some legislators are scrutinizing the RIAA. Minnesota Sen. Norm Coleman, who was once a roadie for Ten Years After, suspects overkill in suing people for up to $150,000 per song. ?Does the punishment fit the crime?? he asks. ?I think the companies want to make an example of someone. Being an ex-prosecutor, I really worry about that.? Coleman wants his own hearings, with a focus on the subpoena process that allows the music industry to force Internet providers to supply customer information without any judicial oversight.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: apoppin

A one day boycott won't accomplish anything?

A 1-day boycott will PROVE to the RIAA that we CAN organize and we can return the favor with the "fear thing".

But who would even notice a one day boycott, even if every single person in America bought into it? *MAYBE* a retailer like Tower Records would notice it, but that's about it. Nobody would get their panties in a bunch over a single days sales... Season and quarterly (and semi-quarterly) numbers are what people look at. I'm not sure anyone would even notice a single day.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually it should be rather easy to pull off since there is so many items vying for teenagers (and adults) disposable income..which is the reason CD sales are down, not File Sharing as the RIAA contends.

 

[notfred]

This is a stupid boycott. You take a whole bunch of people who download music instead of buying it, and tell them "don't buy music". Yeah, that's going to have a huge effect on music sales.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Actually it should be rather easy to pull off since there is so many items vying for teenagers (and adults) disposable income..which is the reason CD sales are down, not File Sharing as the RIAA contends.

Oh c'mon... How many people do you know that no longer buy cd's, since they can just download the songs they want for free?

I think that cd sales are down for two significant reasons... Yes, file sharing is one.

But I don't think people are just that passionate about new music any more. I know when I was a teen, it was a major event when bands came to town or released a new album. People's waited overnight for concert tickets.... Bands sold out huge arena. People lined up at midnight to pick up the latest cd.
It's just not that big of a deal any more. And that theory does concur with your view that there are many other things for teens to do.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: notfred
This is a stupid boycott. You take a whole bunch of people who download music instead of buying it, and tell them "don't buy music". Yeah, that's going to have a huge effect on music sales.

Seems so obvious, doesn't it? And yes, it really is that simple.

 

[vi edit]

1.) Well, I can appreciate that... But that's basic economics at work, not the RIAA. CD's are going to cost whatever the market will bear. No different than computers, carpet, flowers, toothpaste or any other product.
They would argue that the RIAA has illegally fixed CD prices. My rebutal is that I can buy CD's right now, cheaper than I ever could, and I have far more money in my pocket now, than I did 10 years ago.

2.) I can't say as though I know what the profit distribution is... But the more popular musicians seem to be doing ok. I'm guessing there are other industries with a more heinous model of profit distribution.
My response is that the artists signed on with them, and that's their problem. NOT the RIAA's. And it certainly doesn't justify the theft of music just to spite the RIAA.

3.) Yeah, they are high... But that's how the American justice system works to deter others. What would be an acceptable judgement against someone who illegally downloads and distributes files? I would agree that it is high as well. But it is also CLEARLY stated what the penalties are. Ignorance is not an excuse.

4.) Crippling of cd's? I'm not sure I even know what that is. I guess I have yet to purchase a "crippled" cd.
Some CD's have technology in them that prevent them from being used in computer CDROM's. Not being able to be used in computer CDROM's is an attempt to prevent them from being ripped to MP3 format. Some disks are labled that they are incompatible, but many are not. Personally, this is my biggest beef with the music industry. If you sell me a CD with half the function, charge me half the price. I listen to my CD's in computer a lot, and would like to keep that functionality.

5.) In a way, it definitely is. There should be more options to distribute music. But how?
I'm still upset that I have to go through a dealer to buy a car and dick and haggle with the price. Why can't I just buy straight from the manufacturer at invoice costs? Nearly ALL markets are like this. A middle man exists, and profits are spread across many levels. As for an online distribution method - those have been attempted, but many have failed. There have been many online LEGIT pay-for-download sites, but none of them had any significant support. Somewhat due to lacking quality, somewhat due to limited selections, and other reasons unknown.

With the exception of the cd crippling, I really don't see any difference between the music industry and just about any other industry out there. There's lots of things I'd like to buy that are luxury items, but I can't justify the purchase of them. But I don't turn around and steal them when I can't afford it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: apoppin

A one day boycott won't accomplish anything?

A 1-day boycott will PROVE to the RIAA that we CAN organize and we can return the favor with the "fear thing".

But who would even notice a one day boycott, even if every single person in America bought into it? *MAYBE* a retailer like Tower Records would notice it, but that's about it. Nobody would get their panties in a bunch over a single days sales... Season and quarterly (and semi-quarterly) numbers are what people look at. I'm not sure anyone would even notice a single day.

CLEARLY WE HAVE TO PUBLICIZE THE BOYCOTT[/b]

The media is INTERESTED - get them involved. Plan the boycott with your friends and make PROTEST SIGNS.
Picket the large music stores.

Students are anti-RIAA - get their PARENTS involved (many of them remember the '60s, the war and Ralph Nader).

Some senators are interested in investigating the RIAA - write to them.



Need more suggestions?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: apoppin
CLEARLY WE HAVE TO PUBLICIZE THE BOYCOTT[/b]

The media is INTERESTED - get them involved. Plan the boycott with your friends and make PROTEST SIGNS.
Picket the large music stores.

Students are anti-RIAA - get their PARENTS involved (many of them remember the '60s, the war and Ralph Nader).

Some senators are interested in investigating the RIAA - write to them.

Need more suggestions?

But why? What specifically are we looking to protest about?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
1.) Well, I can appreciate that... But that's basic economics at work, not the RIAA. CD's are going to cost whatever the market will bear. No different than computers, carpet, flowers, toothpaste or any other product.
They would argue that the RIAA has illegally fixed CD prices. My rebutal is that I can buy CD's right now, cheaper than I ever could, and I have far more money in my pocket now, than I did 10 years ago.

2.) I can't say as though I know what the profit distribution is... But the more popular musicians seem to be doing ok. I'm guessing there are other industries with a more heinous model of profit distribution.
My response is that the artists signed on with them, and that's their problem. NOT the RIAA's. And it certainly doesn't justify the theft of music just to spite the RIAA.

3.) Yeah, they are high... But that's how the American justice system works to deter others. What would be an acceptable judgement against someone who illegally downloads and distributes files? I would agree that it is high as well. But it is also CLEARLY stated what the penalties are. Ignorance is not an excuse.

4.) Crippling of cd's? I'm not sure I even know what that is. I guess I have yet to purchase a "crippled" cd.
Some CD's have technology in them that prevent them from being used in computer CDROM's. Not being able to be used in computer CDROM's is an attempt to prevent them from being ripped to MP3 format. Some disks are labled that they are incompatible, but many are not. Personally, this is my biggest beef with the music industry. If you sell me a CD with half the function, charge me half the price. I listen to my CD's in computer a lot, and would like to keep that functionality.

5.) In a way, it definitely is. There should be more options to distribute music. But how?
I'm still upset that I have to go through a dealer to buy a car and dick and haggle with the price. Why can't I just buy straight from the manufacturer at invoice costs? Nearly ALL markets are like this. A middle man exists, and profits are spread across many levels. As for an online distribution method - those have been attempted, but many have failed. There have been many online LEGIT pay-for-download sites, but none of them had any significant support. Somewhat due to lacking quality, somewhat due to limited selections, and other reasons unknown.

With the exception of the cd crippling, I really don't see any difference between the music industry and just about any other industry out there. There's lots of things I'd like to buy that are luxury items, but I can't justify the purchase of them. But I don't turn around and steal them when I can't afford it.

I couldn't agree more with EVERYTHING you've stated.

And after working in car dealerships for 10+ years, I hate dealing with salesmen more than you.
I have vowed that I will never, ever deal with a car salesman for the rest of my life.

 

[Ornery]

How fvcking pathetic. Such a noble cause. Nearly as noble as the struggle against the Nazis!

• UNFVCKINGBELIEVABLE!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: apoppin
CLEARLY WE HAVE TO PUBLICIZE THE BOYCOTT[/b]

The media is INTERESTED - get them involved. Plan the boycott with your friends and make PROTEST SIGNS.
Picket the large music stores.

Students are anti-RIAA - get their PARENTS involved (many of them remember the '60s, the war and Ralph Nader).

Some senators are interested in investigating the RIAA - write to them.

Need more suggestions?

But why? What specifically are we looking to protest about?

You - nothing.

I - and those who think like me - have to get up and away from our keyboards and stand up for what we believe in to (attempt to) make any difference in the world.

Just "analyzing" endlessly is not going to accomplish anything.

IF you are NOT interested in Boycotting the RIAA - then please drop out of the thread. Your negativity will not bother those wo are determined to stand up and be counted for something - before America's freedom is castrated by government and magabusiness.

ANYway - it's a really nice day in SoCAl and I am getting away from my keyboard . . .



aloha

Uin case you missed it - WE ARE PROTESTING THE RIAA'S METHODS AND TACTICS

from the last MSNBC link I quoted:

Caught in the middle are the poor shlubs snagged in the web of the music industry?s education program. ?I?m furious because I can?t afford this,? says defendant Alyson Symons of Los Angeles. ?I?ve got two young children. I?m not dealing with this too well.? Even for those who think that they were wrongly identified, taking on billion-dollar corporations is too much to handle. The industry is already considering settlements, supposedly in the $3,000 to $5,000 range. To a wealthy record executive, that?s a couple of nights in a luxury suite, but for the working-class families who have to scrape up the cash?or risk financial ruin by defending themselves in court with a possible liability in the millions?facing the music is a serious matter.
And, considering that millions of people are downloading every day, an infuriating one. ?I think it?s really ridiculous to do this to a 14-year-old,? says Courtney Fitzgerald, an honor-roll student who downloaded 800 songs?and now has her family on the line for up to a billion dollars? worth of penalties. ?All my friends do it, yet I?m the only one being sued for it.? Whether or not you consider Courtney a thief, one thing is certain: she?s collateral damage in a file-sharing war that won?t end soon.

Fellow humans should NOT be "collateral damage" in the RIAA's mindless and stupid war.

ate logo

How fvcking pathetic. Such a noble cause. Nearly as noble as the struggle against the Nazis!

UNFVCKINGBELIEVABLE!

edit: nice name you chose for your self, Ornery.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ornery
How fvcking pathetic. Such a noble cause. Nearly as noble as the struggle against the Nazis!

• UNFVCKINGBELIEVABLE!

LOL.... supporting the Boycott just to cause you such consternation seems to be as good a reason as any John

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Ornery
How fvcking pathetic. Such a noble cause. Nearly as noble as the struggle against the Nazis!

• UNFVCKINGBELIEVABLE!

LOL.... supporting the Boycott just to cause you such consternation seems to be as good a reason as any John

Thank's Red - ANOTHER reason.

chow

 

[vi edit]

Caught in the middle are the poor shlubs snagged in the web of the music industry?s education program. ?I?m furious because I can?t afford this,? says defendant Alyson Symons of Los Angeles. ?I?ve got two young children. I?m not dealing with this too well.? Even for those who think that they were wrongly identified, taking on billion-dollar corporations is too much to handle. The industry is already considering settlements, supposedly in the $3,000 to $5,000 range. To a wealthy record executive, that?s a couple of nights in a luxury suite, but for the working-class families who have to scrape up the cash?or risk financial ruin by defending themselves in court with a possible liability in the millions?facing the music is a serious matter.
And, considering that millions of people are downloading every day, an infuriating one. ?I think it?s really ridiculous to do this to a 14-year-old,? says Courtney Fitzgerald, an honor-roll student who downloaded 800 songs?and now has her family on the line for up to a billion dollars? worth of penalties. ?All my friends do it, yet I?m the only one being sued for it.? Whether or not you consider Courtney a thief, one thing is certain: she?s collateral damage in a file-sharing war that won?t end soon.

She's got just under $1000 in music wrapped up there in songs. I just figured that 800 songs was about 75 CD's, take that times an average of $12.00 an album. A $3,000-$5,000 slap on the wrist doesn't sound so bad for stealing that much music.

All my friends do it, yet I?m the only one being sued for it.? Whether or not you consider Courtney a thief, one thing is certain: she?s collateral damage in a file-sharing war that won?t end soon

Going back to my earlier speeding comment - just because everyone else speeds, and you do to, and you get caught, and they don't doesn't make it any less illegal. Sorry. No sympathy.

 

[db]

"Raising consciousness" - think about that.

Perception is everything, and this boycott would: 1) educate the general public; 2) send a message to the industry. Right now the RIAA is winning the "perception war" b/c they are the only ones speaking to the public, and most of that speaking is being done through journalists who get most of their info from RIAA.

Files sharing CAN be stealing but it can also be a fantastic advertising medium, a "sampler". I've bought CDs simply b/c I've come across groups I like thru sharing, who I never would have heard of otherwise.

And, one of the biggest lies perpetuated is that every song downloaded is a sale/money that has been stolen from the music industry. Just b/c people download a song does not mean that they would have bought it. Anybody who says different is an apologist for the music industry.


BTW, it's a waste of time to argue with contrary people (who will argue any subject *no matter what side* just to draw attention to themselves so they can appear superior). Best thing to do is ignore them like they're not even there.

 

[thraashman]

Is it just me or doesn't it seem like the RIAA gathering information from your computer by hacking the programs and tracing IP's, doing this without permission from you, and without a search warrant qualifies as illegal search and seizure and thus any evidence they try to present against you would be invalid. I really don't see how they're getting away with it. And as far as teh boycott, I've been doing that for the last 2 years (and I worked in a music store at that time too)

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: thraashman
Is it just me or doesn't it seem like the RIAA gathering information from your computer by hacking the programs and tracing IP's, doing this without permission from you, and without a search warrant qualifies as illegal search and seizure and thus any evidence they try to present against you would be invalid. I really don't see how they're getting away with it. And as far as teh boycott, I've been doing that for the last 2 years (and I worked in a music store at that time too)

Hacking? In Kazza all you have to do is search for something, then just look at "show all shared files by this user" or something to that extent to see what all a person is sharing. From there you can just look at the email address, do a quick lookup to see what ISP it is and get the ISP contact number, give them a ring, and confirm.

No hacking involved.

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: thraashman
Is it just me or doesn't it seem like the RIAA gathering information from your computer by hacking the programs and tracing IP's, doing this without permission from you, and without a search warrant qualifies as illegal search and seizure and thus any evidence they try to present against you would be invalid. I really don't see how they're getting away with it. And as far as teh boycott, I've been doing that for the last 2 years (and I worked in a music store at that time too)

Hacking? In Kazza all you have to do is search for something, then just look at "show all shared files by this user" or something to that extent to see what all a person is sharing. From there you can just look at the email address, do a quick lookup to see what ISP it is and get the ISP contact number, give them a ring, and confirm.

No hacking involved.

Ok. You cannot get the IP from Kazaa by normal means. Most people don't list their e-mail when using Kazaa, so that doesn't work. They actually do hack the program to trace the IP address directly, this is known.


Also as far as whether or not a 1 day boycott would affect the RIAA. Here's a rundown.

I used to work at MediaPlay. On a single say that would be as busy as Black Friday I personally would see at least 50 Cd's I figure. Figure that 10 people working cashier that day would also see about the same., so 500 Cd's in a day like that. Now figure that most Best Buys, MediaPlays, Sam Goodys, whoever else would see around the same business on this busy day. Let's say there's 5000 of those businesses nationwide. Now we'll estimate the average CD cost at $14 which is probably a bit low. And that's for 1 day in CD sales a loss of $35 million. That's an estimate. And that's alot of money. They would notice.

 

[YellowRose]

I haven't bought a CD since the RIAA started this mess and I will not buy one again ever.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Uin case you missed it - WE ARE PROTESTING THE RIAA'S METHODS AND TACTICS

This will fail miserably (a la the big gasoline boycott last year) if you don't get more clear in your goals.

You need to be protesting something specifically. Something that's both deliverable and measurable. Not only that, but you must deliver some possibilities of a better solution that would be fair to both parties.

You guys have done NONE of that. Just generalizations and whining.

WHAT DO YOU FRIGGIN' WANT???

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: apoppin
Uin case you missed it - WE ARE PROTESTING THE RIAA'S METHODS AND TACTICS

This will fail miserably (a la the big gasoline boycott last year) if you don't get more clear in your goals.

You need to be protesting something specifically. Something that's both deliverable and measurable. Not only that, but you must deliver some possibilities of a better solution that would be fair to both parties.

You guys have done NONE of that. Just generalizations and whining.

WHAT DO YOU FRIGGIN' WANT???

I've stated already, for reasons that should be obvious (though some still do not get it), that mandatory hardware DRM without any limits upon the untrustworthy people in control (the RIAA) is one thing I do not want to see. The few fair use rights that we the people still have being taken away is another thing I don't want to see, though it's happening already. That you can not see the problems with hardware DRM does not surprise me, since you work at Intel and probably get paid to develop the stuff.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: thraashman
Is it just me or doesn't it seem like the RIAA gathering information from your computer by hacking the programs and tracing IP's, doing this without permission from you, and without a search warrant qualifies as illegal search and seizure and thus any evidence they try to present against you would be invalid. I really don't see how they're getting away with it. And as far as teh boycott, I've been doing that for the last 2 years (and I worked in a music store at that time too)

Hacking? In Kazza all you have to do is search for something, then just look at "show all shared files by this user" or something to that extent to see what all a person is sharing. From there you can just look at the email address, do a quick lookup to see what ISP it is and get the ISP contact number, give them a ring, and confirm.

No hacking involved.

Ok. You cannot get the IP from Kazaa by normal means. Most people don't list their e-mail when using Kazaa, so that doesn't work. They actually do hack the program to trace the IP address directly, this is known.

If they "hack" the program like you say, they are just modifying their copy of it - they're not "hacking" your computer. They could get your IP address very easily without any modifications to Kazaa. They could use a packet sniffer. Your IP address is not private, its function REQUIRES that it be public.