RIAA at it again

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Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
BAH..... DLing music is not a crime, any more than listening to music on the radio is a crime. It's only a crime if you sell it. Just like I can make as many mix CDs as I want and not get into trouble. I can give the mix CDs to all my friends and it's not a crime. The RIAA is full of crap. If someone buys a CD, the music on that CD is their's they're allowed to listen to it or lend it to friends all they want. And the RIAA has no right to define who I can allow to listen to my music. The whole thing is retarded. If I were making copies and selling em, then that would be illegal, otherwise I simply disagree that it's illegal, and I'd like to see it taken to court again.

-Max
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Doboji
BAH..... DLing music is not a crime, any more than listening to music on the radio is a crime. It's only a crime if you sell it. Just like I can make as many mix CDs as I want and not get into trouble. I can give the mix CDs to all my friends and it's not a crime. The RIAA is full of crap. If someone buys a CD, the music on that CD is their's they're allowed to listen to it or lend it to friends all they want. And the RIAA has no right to define who I can allow to listen to my music. The whole thing is retarded. If I were making copies and selling em, then that would be illegal, otherwise I simply disagree that it's illegal, and I'd like to see it taken to court again.

-Max

You know absolutely nothing about copyright law, so stop pretending you do.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: mugs
You know absolutely nothing about copyright law, so stop pretending you do.

Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: mugs
You know absolutely nothing about copyright law, so stop pretending you do.

Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.

They're not vagued. Corporations can do what they want at will just as designed.


 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Hossenfeffer
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I think it is RIAA's problem to solve because they don't seem interested in providing a serious incentive for people to buy music online. Lower prices and higher quality would be tempting for people who are on the edge, but the current standard of $.99/track is too steep for average quality DRM-protected downloads.

And no, these silly lawsuits will make no significant impact on piracy. RIAA is going to soil their pants during this decade as broadband proliferation sees some significant increases within the US. Numbers can't be argued with, and they will only hurt themselves if they think their lawsuits will protect them as more and more households get broadband connections.
It sure as hell is gonna make a lot of people think twice before sharing music. Yeah, they're not going to get everyone, but they're trying to stem the nearly endless flow of the pirate river :) They're trying to alter the behavior that stems from some feeling of "deservitude" or entitlement. You're not entitled to something just because you found a way to get it without paying. While I hate the fact that they -are- doing the lawsuit thing, I imagine it has at least worked a bit in the "fight on piracy."

Expecting them to drop everything as far as their business model(s) is just assinine. It's a huge beast of a business, an enormous ball moving forward. You can't just expect it to stop and switch direction. You -can- however expect it to adapt. While I'd prefer it adapt a bit quicker, we are -slowly- seeing some alternatives out there. And no, you might not have some insanely high-quality rips available at the onset, that's fine. Make them know that you want them. Downloading/sharing the high-quality rips isn't exactly the best way to do that. All it equates to is "I can get this for free".

It's going to make people think twice? The Pew study done last month is showing that the only impacts of the lawsuits are the less people are *reporting* P2P file sharing (while the usage is staying steady), and the number of people sharing via alternate methods (IM, E-Mail, Direct Download) is going up.

It's only making people think twice about openly sharing their activities. File sharing has not been significantly impacted AT ALL.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Doboji
BAH..... DLing music is not a crime, any more than listening to music on the radio is a crime. It's only a crime if you sell it. Just like I can make as many mix CDs as I want and not get into trouble. I can give the mix CDs to all my friends and it's not a crime. The RIAA is full of crap. If someone buys a CD, the music on that CD is their's they're allowed to listen to it or lend it to friends all they want. And the RIAA has no right to define who I can allow to listen to my music. The whole thing is retarded. If I were making copies and selling em, then that would be illegal, otherwise I simply disagree that it's illegal, and I'd like to see it taken to court again.

-Max
That is not true. Try and sell the idea to a court that you were merely sharing to 5000 people because it was originally yours and see what they say.
Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.
They are somewhat vague, as fair use isn't always easily defined.

 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Doboji
BAH..... DLing music is not a crime, any more than listening to music on the radio is a crime. It's only a crime if you sell it. Just like I can make as many mix CDs as I want and not get into trouble. I can give the mix CDs to all my friends and it's not a crime. The RIAA is full of crap. If someone buys a CD, the music on that CD is their's they're allowed to listen to it or lend it to friends all they want. And the RIAA has no right to define who I can allow to listen to my music. The whole thing is retarded. If I were making copies and selling em, then that would be illegal, otherwise I simply disagree that it's illegal, and I'd like to see it taken to court again.

-Max
That is not true. Try and sell the idea to a court that you were merely sharing to 5000 people because it was originally yours and see what they say.
Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.
They are somewhat vague, as fair use isn't always easily defined.

Bah! HACK THE PLANET!...
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: mugs
You know absolutely nothing about copyright law, so stop pretending you do.

Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.

They're not vagued. Corporations can do what they want at will just as designed.

I'm always amazed when I see the quality of your posts next to the "Elite Member" title.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Doboji
BAH..... DLing music is not a crime, any more than listening to music on the radio is a crime. It's only a crime if you sell it. Just like I can make as many mix CDs as I want and not get into trouble. I can give the mix CDs to all my friends and it's not a crime. The RIAA is full of crap. If someone buys a CD, the music on that CD is their's they're allowed to listen to it or lend it to friends all they want. And the RIAA has no right to define who I can allow to listen to my music. The whole thing is retarded. If I were making copies and selling em, then that would be illegal, otherwise I simply disagree that it's illegal, and I'd like to see it taken to court again.

-Max
That is not true. Try and sell the idea to a court that you were merely sharing to 5000 people because it was originally yours and see what they say.
Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.
They are somewhat vague, as fair use isn't always easily defined.

Well, there kinda are guidlines, but they don't seem to apply to the RIAA/MPAA even though that industry brought the original case (betamax) to court.

Read Me.

" In its defense, Sony asserted that a consumer had the absolute right to record programs at home for private use. It drew an analogy to the audio cassette recorder, which was introduced in the 1960s and had made music tapers out of millions of American teenagers."
"the U.S. District Court ruled in favor of Sony, stating that taping off air for entertainment or time shifting constituted fair use; that copying an entire program also qualified as fair use;"

Sound familiar?

So why can't I ask a friend to tape an entire show and send it to me w/o having to deal with RIAA/MPAA?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
So why can't I ask a friend to tape an entire show and send it to me w/o having to deal with RIAA/MPAA?
Who knows, but you sure can't tape it and send to 5000 people :)
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
So why can't I ask a friend to tape an entire show and send it to me w/o having to deal with RIAA/MPAA?
Who knows, but you sure can't tape it and send to 5000 people :)
Of course, but that was pretty much impossible with the case was ruled on. Now it's a few clicks and the whole world can get it...

I still don't see how people can't share to masses as long as they aren't making $ off of it. I don't see the harm to the industry in re-broadcasting freely broadcast content (ie music played on the radio, and shows on public TV). That's no different than me making the video and watching it later.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: Skoorb
So why can't I ask a friend to tape an entire show and send it to me w/o having to deal with RIAA/MPAA?
Who knows, but you sure can't tape it and send to 5000 people :)
Of course, but that was pretty much impossible with the case was ruled on. Now it's a few clicks and the whole world can get it...

I still don't see how people can't share to masses as long as they aren't making $ off of it. I don't see the harm to the industry in re-broadcasting freely broadcast content (ie music played on the radio, and shows on public TV). That's no different than me making the video and watching it later.

I figure the courts will reverse "Fair Use" in the near future. Since corpations now have the same rights i do and even more. The widespread thieft of material. Corporations paying the goverment to pass the laws they want. etc..

Heck im waiting until they outlaw CD/DVD burners, Tivo etc. maybe in 10 years or so.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
This is very interesting argument indeed.

On one hand we have those who seem to justify their actions based on the shortcomings of an industry. On the other hand, we have those who seem to justify their actions based on their supposed morality.

Generally, a lengthy argument ensues, with a variety of catchy retorts and recursive insults, and in the end, everyone agrees to disagree.

Overall, nothing is achieved.

It is becoming ore and more apparent that the Record Industry is falling behind of other industries in its embracement of technology. This is readily visible in the lack of technological-content available for the technological savvy. Higher quality and more robust content are features that the record industry is simply not focusing its energy on at the moment.

That said, is stealing from a corroding behemoth acceptable, and is downloading music and movies really stealing?

This next part depends totally on your respect for your own morality and those of others.

If we put aside our emotions and our desires for a moment, there should be no reason why we cannot accept the validity of recognizing intellectual content. It is a creation based on effort that the artist shares, be it through themselves, or by other means such as the RIAA. Regardless of how decrepit or failing the RIAA is, unless you choose means in acquiring content that the artist has dictated as acceptable, you are in fact taking without permission, are, by definition, stealing.

Now some of you might argue that morality is relative, and, indeed it is, but our society exists today based on the fact that some morality is deemed universally applicable, and as citizens of this democracy, we have agreed to abide by these laws. So steal if you must, pilfer what you please, but don?t lie to us, and most importantly, don?t lie to yourself.

I am not perfect myself. As a child, my mother could not afford to get me everything I wanted and I discovered the internet to keep myself content. The first song ever downloaded was ?Hotel California? by the Eagles, and I did so only so I could show off some new speakers to my mother. That said, I cannot claim innocence for my actions since. That said, these days I buy my software and my music, with some exceptions (friends send me classical music on occasion), hoping to do so with everything in my life.

It is very important for both sides to understand their pitfalls.

RIAA:

Its approach is all wrong. Embracing technology is an uphill battle, but it must take place in order for you to thrive. The consumer is demanding high-quality selection online for convenience and they are delivering at a snails-pace. People are impatient, and they pirate for its convenience and the quality. Lowering prices is not really necessary. The key is to make the customer happy, and in many instances, the growing level of tech-savvy youth is leaving the counter or website, disappointed at the lack of selection and/or the lack of quality.


Users:
I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there is no moral justification for not admitting that you are stealing. Is it morally bankrupting, and or is it just? That is for you to decide, but don?t lie to yourself. Rosa Parks sat in the front of the Bus not because she wanted to break the law, but because she was tired. She did break the law. It was a bad law, but she accepted her fate and worked to remedy it. She didn?t live her life arguing that she was in the legal right. She argued that she was in the moral right.

Admit your wrongs, so you can orate of the validity of your wrongs, and work to make the world a better place.

My point: If you really want to enact change, stop lying.
 

tami

Lifer
Nov 14, 2004
11,588
3
81
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: tami
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: tami
downloading is NOT a crime -- it happens to be available, and she took advantage of it. what YOU did, however, is stupid and yes, for that, you're an idiot.

furthermore, did you get her fired because you were jealous that she was watching a movie at the time?

Acutally yes downloading is a crime. Granted it is not one they are going after right now.

what he did is NOT stupid. Karma is not going to bite him on the rear end. If anything karma caught up witht the women watching.

1)she downloads a movie (wich is against the law)
2) she watches it in FULL VIEW of anyone
3) she did it during work hours
4) got fired for it.

looks like karma caught up whith her.


Some of you are really amazing. Downloading music is thieft. I remember when they were even thinking about allowing people to download songs for $.99 (wich i think is fair) and most people said they would pay that. Now you guys are complaining its to much. sheesh.

I agree the RIAA sucks balls. They should have to get information on the person with proof before they sue. These blanket law suits should be outlawed. Also if they can't make money then they should go out of business like any other place does. This sueing everyone is out of control.

But i do not blame them for the suits. just wish they had to fallow the law like every other person does.

But anyway stop makeing excuses for the thieft. hell just admit you dont want to pay since you can get it for free. Stop saying its not against the law/ your rebeling against the RIAA/ etc they are all BS arguments/excuses.


Personally think $.99 a song to download music is great. i get to pick the songs i want $18 for a cd full of songs I want is worth it. I agree that the quality is crap. They just doing that to save on download rates. i wish they would increase the quality myself.

i respectfully disagree with you. i still think that downloading is not a crime.

the fact that there is media available for download is the problem. the fact that people take advantage of it by downloading the media is the result. you eliminate the problem, and you won't have such a consequence.

it don't matter if you THINK downloading is not a crime. that does not change the fact that it is a crime. Ignorance of the law is not a excuse.

just because it is avalable does not mean you have to steal it. The fact that the odds on getting caught is extremly low (unless you just dumb) does not mean you have to steal it. The fact that the price for a store baught Cd is a ripoff does not mean you have to steal it. The fact that they encode it at a crappy rate does not mean you have to steal it.

Face it. there is no good excuse to steal the music. Thoug hi agree i wish they would figure out if they stoped makeing Cd's with 2 good songs and 12 filler crap then people would buy more (i know i would) and lower the cost to something reasonable ($18 for a cd? i only buy a few a year at that cost). The $.99/download is a good idea. i have got a about 15 of them myself. I really can't tell the diffrence between the crappy encode and the good so it does not really bother me (yeah i know there are some that can).

I'm not saying DON"T (though you shoulnd't). im just pointing out the Bs excuses of people. Everyone seems to think that they should get music for free and come up with a bunch of lame excuses. If you going to do it just admit it. everyone knows its thieft they just dont want to admit it heh

i live in new york city. there are parts of chinatown that have definite knockoffs of legitimate products (e.g. LV bags, nike watches, rolexes, DVDs, oakleys -- everyone has heard of this stuff). naturally, it is not legal to sell these products. NYPD cops routinely police those areas, and i have been there at certain times where the cops did their rounds and all these chinatown businessfolk have closed up shop during regular "operating" hours -- literally hiding their products from the officers' view (there's no search warrant, so the cops can't demand to see what's under the blanket or inside the garage).

meanwhile, then the cops aren't monitoring what's happening in the area, hundreds of thousands of individuals daily purchase these knockoffs for $5 apiece.

are you saying that it's a CRIME for these people to buy these products? you couldn't arrest them even if you tried. do you consider ownership of fake oakleys a crime?

again, the problem isn't rooted in the downloaders (or purchasers, in this particular case). there's a ROOT cause of the problem, and that's the crime. they know they're distributing media illegally, yet continue to do so.

i agree with you that there's no good excuse to steal the music. i'm simply stating that if the RIAA cares this much, they need to go after those who are distributing the music, not those "end users" who simply gather the data for themselves (because it's there, sort of like how you can search for something on google and use it for your own personal means/edification).

you can find the following restriction in just about any book: redistribution of copyrighted material is prohibited. however, using the copyrighted material for yourself is not.
 

user1234

Banned
Jul 11, 2004
2,428
0
0
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Oops! Maybe the RIAA will figure out sooner or later that people are going to continue to download regardless of how many people they file against. Maybe it's time to start blaming the current business model that causes the piracy instead of blaming the piracy...


i'm sure they understand that, but they also know that doing this will reduce the piracy because it will deter other people from doing it (even if the lawsuiots hit a few road blocks, it would still intimidate many people). So for them even reducing piracy by 10% probably justifies the trouble of taking this action.
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: rleemhui

If I am going to pay $1 for a song, I want quality. Think about it, a CD costs what....$14 or so? There are say....14 tracks...thats $1 a track. I want a CD quality recording not some 128 kb/s compressed crap. If I am paying for it I want my money's worth. Sure that compressed MP3 might sound ok on some pair of headphones that came with the CD player, but when you start getting up into HT components and subwoofers, compression REALLY makes a song sound bad. I want a music service to start offering at LEAST 320kb/s

If you want them to offer 320kb/s files, write them a letter and tell them that you're not going to buy any music until they do. Then stop buying music. But that doesn't give you the right to steal it. It's theirs, they can offer it however they want. I'm sure people would love it if Honda offered a 300 HP Civic, but it's Honda's right to not do that just like it's the recording industry's right to offer their music in whatever format they want. Even if they only offered it in on 8 track tapes, that wouldn't give you the right to steal it. Complaining about the business model is just an excuse peole hide behind because they don't want to admit that they just plain don't want to pay for the music.

Edit:
I honestly couldn't care less if people steal music, it doesn't affect me one bit. What bugs me is that they make excuses and try to blame the RIAA, and the fault the RIAA for trying to protect their own interests. If you steal, at least have the balls to admit that it's because you just don't WANT to pay for it.

I never said I stole music. We have a "free" music service here at Purdue. LEGAL :)

 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: tami
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: tami
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: tami
downloading is NOT a crime -- it happens to be available, and she took advantage of it. what YOU did, however, is stupid and yes, for that, you're an idiot.

furthermore, did you get her fired because you were jealous that she was watching a movie at the time?

Acutally yes downloading is a crime. Granted it is not one they are going after right now.

what he did is NOT stupid. Karma is not going to bite him on the rear end. If anything karma caught up witht the women watching.

1)she downloads a movie (wich is against the law)
2) she watches it in FULL VIEW of anyone
3) she did it during work hours
4) got fired for it.

looks like karma caught up whith her.


Some of you are really amazing. Downloading music is thieft. I remember when they were even thinking about allowing people to download songs for $.99 (wich i think is fair) and most people said they would pay that. Now you guys are complaining its to much. sheesh.

I agree the RIAA sucks balls. They should have to get information on the person with proof before they sue. These blanket law suits should be outlawed. Also if they can't make money then they should go out of business like any other place does. This sueing everyone is out of control.

But i do not blame them for the suits. just wish they had to fallow the law like every other person does.

But anyway stop makeing excuses for the thieft. hell just admit you dont want to pay since you can get it for free. Stop saying its not against the law/ your rebeling against the RIAA/ etc they are all BS arguments/excuses.


Personally think $.99 a song to download music is great. i get to pick the songs i want $18 for a cd full of songs I want is worth it. I agree that the quality is crap. They just doing that to save on download rates. i wish they would increase the quality myself.

i respectfully disagree with you. i still think that downloading is not a crime.

the fact that there is media available for download is the problem. the fact that people take advantage of it by downloading the media is the result. you eliminate the problem, and you won't have such a consequence.

it don't matter if you THINK downloading is not a crime. that does not change the fact that it is a crime. Ignorance of the law is not a excuse.

just because it is avalable does not mean you have to steal it. The fact that the odds on getting caught is extremly low (unless you just dumb) does not mean you have to steal it. The fact that the price for a store baught Cd is a ripoff does not mean you have to steal it. The fact that they encode it at a crappy rate does not mean you have to steal it.

Face it. there is no good excuse to steal the music. Thoug hi agree i wish they would figure out if they stoped makeing Cd's with 2 good songs and 12 filler crap then people would buy more (i know i would) and lower the cost to something reasonable ($18 for a cd? i only buy a few a year at that cost). The $.99/download is a good idea. i have got a about 15 of them myself. I really can't tell the diffrence between the crappy encode and the good so it does not really bother me (yeah i know there are some that can).

I'm not saying DON"T (though you shoulnd't). im just pointing out the Bs excuses of people. Everyone seems to think that they should get music for free and come up with a bunch of lame excuses. If you going to do it just admit it. everyone knows its thieft they just dont want to admit it heh

i live in new york city. there are parts of chinatown that have definite knockoffs of legitimate products (e.g. LV bags, nike watches, rolexes, DVDs, oakleys -- everyone has heard of this stuff). naturally, it is not legal to sell these products. NYPD cops routinely police those areas, and i have been there at certain times where the cops did their rounds and all these chinatown businessfolk have closed up shop during regular "operating" hours -- literally hiding their products from the officers' view (there's no search warrant, so the cops can't demand to see what's under the blanket or inside the garage).

meanwhile, then the cops aren't monitoring what's happening in the area, hundreds of thousands of individuals daily purchase these knockoffs for $5 apiece.

are you saying that it's a CRIME for these people to buy these products? you couldn't arrest them even if you tried. do you consider ownership of fake oakleys a crime?

again, the problem isn't rooted in the downloaders (or purchasers, in this particular case). there's a ROOT cause of the problem, and that's the crime. they know they're distributing media illegally, yet continue to do so.

i agree with you that there's no good excuse to steal the music. i'm simply stating that if the RIAA cares this much, they need to go after those who are distributing the music, not those "end users" who simply gather the data for themselves (because it's there, sort of like how you can search for something on google and use it for your own personal means/edification).

you can find the following restriction in just about any book: redistribution of copyrighted material is prohibited. however, using the copyrighted material for yourself is not.

First off compare oranges to oranges. What you are saing is someone makeing a good and claiming its the orginal. This is not what is happening with downloading music. They are still in a sence downloading the orginal.

Now if people were makeing Cd's of them singing the songs and selling them would be closer to what you are talking about.

As for people buying "fake" oakleys being illagal i really do not know. But if caught with them they will be taken away. You then have to sue whoever you baught them from for the money back.

 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: rleemhui
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: rleemhui

If I am going to pay $1 for a song, I want quality. Think about it, a CD costs what....$14 or so? There are say....14 tracks...thats $1 a track. I want a CD quality recording not some 128 kb/s compressed crap. If I am paying for it I want my money's worth. Sure that compressed MP3 might sound ok on some pair of headphones that came with the CD player, but when you start getting up into HT components and subwoofers, compression REALLY makes a song sound bad. I want a music service to start offering at LEAST 320kb/s

If you want them to offer 320kb/s files, write them a letter and tell them that you're not going to buy any music until they do. Then stop buying music. But that doesn't give you the right to steal it. It's theirs, they can offer it however they want. I'm sure people would love it if Honda offered a 300 HP Civic, but it's Honda's right to not do that just like it's the recording industry's right to offer their music in whatever format they want. Even if they only offered it in on 8 track tapes, that wouldn't give you the right to steal it. Complaining about the business model is just an excuse peole hide behind because they don't want to admit that they just plain don't want to pay for the music.

Edit:
I honestly couldn't care less if people steal music, it doesn't affect me one bit. What bugs me is that they make excuses and try to blame the RIAA, and the fault the RIAA for trying to protect their own interests. If you steal, at least have the balls to admit that it's because you just don't WANT to pay for it.

I never said I stole music. We have a "free" music service here at Purdue. LEGAL :)

I didn't say you steal music either, I said the argument you're using doesn't give you the right to do it. How does your "free" and LEGAL music service at Purdue work?
 

g8wayrebel

Senior member
Nov 15, 2004
694
0
0
Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the RIAA because they file blanket lawsuits against people and force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying their artists practically nothing, not because they're trying to protect their investment.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and file lawsuits individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.



You are pathetic. Why should any company have to file a law suit in the first place. If people wouldn't steal the music/movies , they wouldn't need to file lawsuits in the first place.
As far as the cost goes , we live in a capitolist society where you get what you can with what you have.
And finally, where the artists are concerned , they are paid what they agreed to be paid ,and that has no place in this argument.
 

triska

Platinum Member
Jul 30, 2001
2,409
0
76
its so bleepity bleep
im at a college where madd kids are gettin taken down
wak. up cuz this ish is bunk!
 

ToeJam13

Senior member
May 18, 2004
504
0
0
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
This is very interesting argument indeed.

On one hand we have those who seem to justify their actions based on the shortcomings of an industry. On the other hand, we have those who seem to justify their actions based on their supposed morality.

Generally, a lengthy argument ensues, with a variety of catchy retorts and recursive insults, and in the end, everyone agrees to disagree.

Overall, nothing is achieved.

We also have those who don?t justify their actions ? they simply do it because so many others are also doing it that the likelihood of being caught is very low.

Personally, I justify my actions on a moral base since I feel that the records industry is ripping me off.

In the mid-1980s, the RIAA and the heads of recording companies were hauled in front of a congressional hearing on CD prices. Charges of price fixing were being pointed at them over the significant price differences between CDs and cassettes. I recall a lady representing one of the recording companies saying that the price differences were due to the higher cost of bleeding edge equipment ? A/D encoders, digital post-processors, CD presses and larger package size. However, she said that eventually the cost of CDs would fall below those of cassettes (she quoted around $5 per album). It never happened.

Today, the price of creating music is less than it used to be. The cost of high quality microphones and amplifiers has decreased in price. The introduction of digital 4 and 8 track mixers has substantially reduced the cost of post-processing music. The costs of facilities and technical personnel have gone up slightly faster than inflation, but the overall costs are down since new technology allows mixing to be done in less time.

Furthermore, the price of publishing music is also cheaper than it used to be. The cost of high-quality, high-speed CD pressing machinery has significantly dropped. Shipping and distribution channels have also become more efficient and inexpensive due to pressure from big-box stores and large chains. Need I mention Wal-Mart?

So the question is, why does it cost $18 for a new Led Zeppelin CD at Tower Records when next-door at Suncoast, I can purchase a second-run DVD new for $12? Both stores pay the same rent to the facilities owner. Both pay nearly the same wages to their peons.

Yet a DVD is inherently more expensive. Compared to a CD?s low-density single layer physical media with a simple 16-bit uncompressed PCM audio stream, a DVD is a high-density multi-layer physical media with multiple data streams. Those data streams take a lot of work to produce since you must perform a host of pre-processing work to convert film to video, as well as encoding the multi-channel audio streams. Oh, and you have to make at least two versions: NTSC and PAL. So in short, the production costs of a DVD are magnitudes higher than that of a CD.

You could say that movie costs are supplemented by theatre showings. Yet that doesn?t account for the fact that the Led Zeppelin CD was MASTERED nearly twenty years ago (it was published even earlier!) and most likely hasn?t been updated since.

So, I know that I am being robbed. I know it?s not legal because several states have fined the music industry over its practices: monopolistic business practices, price gouging, retail manipulation, and a whole host of other illegal activities. Yet its lobby and sheer power allows it to continue to skirt the law and flaunt its power. How can my single vote counter the RIAA?s law team and political muscle? How can I counter Senator Orin Hatch (R-UT) when he believes that the music industry needs to be further protected?

Simple, I can?t. So I can either stop listening to music or I can just come in through the back door. I personally chose something in-between: the grey used CD market. No new money to the RIAA and I get the music I want, usually at 50%-70% less than the cost of it new.

However, it takes a lot of time and energy to find high quality, undamaged used copies of rare albums. It?s even harder to find them at favorable prices. So until I do find them, there?s that method I won?t admit to using...

--

Supplemental:

While I feel for rleemhui and his issues with low-quality 128Kb MPEG audio formats online, my gripe with the RIAA is how they and their members have shunned DVD-Audio. Once you?ve heard your favorite artist recorded on 96KHz/24-bit PCM DVDs, it?s rather difficult to listen to regular 48KHz/16-bit PCM CDs.

Why hasn?t the RIAA sought enthusiasts? money? Simply, they don?t care. Its so much easier to shove the low-quality crap which is Britney Spears down our throats.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
.....wow

If they stop internet sharing people will just find other ways. I dont see what they are trying to acomplish
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: rleemhui
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: rleemhui

If I am going to pay $1 for a song, I want quality. Think about it, a CD costs what....$14 or so? There are say....14 tracks...thats $1 a track. I want a CD quality recording not some 128 kb/s compressed crap. If I am paying for it I want my money's worth. Sure that compressed MP3 might sound ok on some pair of headphones that came with the CD player, but when you start getting up into HT components and subwoofers, compression REALLY makes a song sound bad. I want a music service to start offering at LEAST 320kb/s

If you want them to offer 320kb/s files, write them a letter and tell them that you're not going to buy any music until they do. Then stop buying music. But that doesn't give you the right to steal it. It's theirs, they can offer it however they want. I'm sure people would love it if Honda offered a 300 HP Civic, but it's Honda's right to not do that just like it's the recording industry's right to offer their music in whatever format they want. Even if they only offered it in on 8 track tapes, that wouldn't give you the right to steal it. Complaining about the business model is just an excuse peole hide behind because they don't want to admit that they just plain don't want to pay for the music.

Edit:
I honestly couldn't care less if people steal music, it doesn't affect me one bit. What bugs me is that they make excuses and try to blame the RIAA, and the fault the RIAA for trying to protect their own interests. If you steal, at least have the balls to admit that it's because you just don't WANT to pay for it.

I never said I stole music. We have a "free" music service here at Purdue. LEGAL :)

I didn't say you steal music either, I said the argument you're using doesn't give you the right to do it. How does your "free" and LEGAL music service at Purdue work?


Its part of the housing budget. Its free to download whatever you want, if you want to burn it to a CD I think it costs 99 cents to do that
 

BriGy86

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2004
4,537
1
91
im a computer savvy person and i don't even like buying crap on the net

identity theft is at an all time high

and they wonder why people wont buy the songs online