RG3

[zinfamous]

I think what we're overlooking is that the point I made paints a grim picture for RG3's longevity -- rushing on 25% of his plays isn't acceptable and is going to get him killed. Remember, Vick and the others suffered from numerous injuries rushing far less.

Oh, I totally agree. I want him to stop running.

If he converts his run game to a dependable evasive technique behind the line of scrimmage--as in that ridiculous play last week, he would be just as deadly.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

just curious IndyColtsFan ... what is your 'definition' of someone who is not a 'rushing qb'. what would the stats have to be to take him out of that area?

I personally don't know if there is a definite line in the sand for defining a running QB. However, within the context of this thread, I thought it was agreed upon that Cunningham and Vick were the definition of "running QBs" so because of that, I would think a reasonable definition would be to look at their pass attempt/run attempt ratio and use that as a possible numerical basis of defining a running QB. Following that logic, anyone falling below their ratios would definitely fall into the "running QB" category. Is my logic flawed?

The numbers I posted above indicate that RG3 rushes more as a percentage of his plays than Vick and Cunningham. Yes, I absolutely know that 7 games may not be a statistically significant sample size, but at this stage, it is all we have to go on and his stats may develop in such a way down the road to completely invalidate my argument. If so, that's fine and I even admitted that might happen.

I have at least shown that based on current stats, RG3's play distribution (him running vs. passing) is far closer to Vick's distribution than Steve Young's distribution. Furthermore, while I know that as a QB gets older his rushing attempts will drop, RG3 is on pace to exceed the TOP rushing seasons (in terms of attempts) of the prototype rushing QBs even in their younger days.

IMO, based on my quick data, RG3 needs to move his ratio from about 3 to at least Steve Young's level (5.75 IIRC) if for no other reason than to increase his survivability. I don't think he'll ever be a pure pocket passer (my example was Peyton Manning, whose current ratio is 21) or even get close to the ratio of Luck (12.5) and remember, Luck currently leads the AFC in QB rushing yards.

 

[RPD]

why doesn't ICF compare a bit more fairly, then?

let's compare RG3's first 7 games, to immortal god Peyton Manning's first 7 games, and try to make conclusions regarding success and ability based only on legit comparable data.

wouldn't that be more accurate?

Or hell--Vick's first 7 games, Joe Montana's first 7 games, Andrew Luck's first 7 games, etc...

Working on compiling these guys first 7 games , rather their first 7 STARTS.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Working on compiling these guys first 7 games , rather their first 7 STARTS.

Not sure about all of those QBs, but the Indy media is fond of posting comparisons between Luck and Manning after each week's game and for the most part, Luck statistically has been ahead of Manning's rookie season. At least until this point. Manning picked it up towards the middle/end of his rookie season and did set some records (some good, some bad) so we'll see if Luck can do that too.

 

[purbeast0]

I personally don't know if there is a definite line in the sand for defining a running QB. However, within the context of this thread, I thought it was agreed upon that Cunningham and Vick were the definition of "running QBs" so because of that, I would think a reasonable definition would be to look at their pass attempt/run attempt ratio and use that as a possible numerical basis of defining a running QB. Following that logic, anyone falling below their ratios would definitely fall into the "running QB" category. Is my logic flawed?

The numbers I posted above indicate that RG3 rushes more as a percentage of his plays than Vick and Cunningham. Yes, I absolutely know that 7 games may not be a statistically significant sample size, but at this stage, it is all we have to go on and his stats may develop in such a way down the road to completely invalidate my argument. If so, that's fine and I even admitted that might happen.

I have at least shown that based on current stats, RG3's play distribution (him running vs. passing) is far closer to Vick's distribution than Steve Young's distribution. Furthermore, while I know that as a QB gets older his rushing attempts will drop, RG3 is on pace to exceed the TOP rushing seasons (in terms of attempts) of the prototype rushing QBs even in their younger days.

IMO, based on my quick data, RG3 needs to move his ratio from about 3 to at least Steve Young's level (5.75 IIRC) if for no other reason than to increase his survivability. I don't think he'll ever be a pure pocket passer (my example was Peyton Manning, whose current ratio is 21) or even get close to the ratio of Luck (12.5) and remember, Luck currently leads the AFC in QB rushing yards.

i see what you are saying and you did provide good data to back it up, but the huge different (to me and experts as well) is that vick and most other 'running qbs' weren't known to be great passers first, then runners second. they were known to be great runners first, and passers second. many of them also had questionable character issues prior to coming into the nfl, or started having them while in the nfl.

this is where it's different in my eyes. it was known that rg3 was a great passer as well as a runner. it was also known that he had a great character and was a smart person with leadership qualities and raised in a good family.

and right now, his 7 games of stats back up a lot of that as well with leading stats as both a passing qb and a running qb.

i'm not saying he isn't a running qb, but many of the people in this thread claiming he is a running qb are inferring or stating that because of that, that he can't also be a passing qb. im saying he is both a passing qb and a running qb.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i see what you are saying and you did provide good data to back it up, but the huge different (to me and experts as well) is that vick and most other 'running qbs' weren't known to be great passers first, then runners second. they were known to be great runners first, and passers second. many of them also had questionable character issues prior to coming into the nfl, or started having them while in the nfl.

this is where it's different in my eyes. it was known that rg3 was a great passer as well as a runner. it was also known that he had a great character and was a smart person with leadership qualities and raised in a good family.

and right now, his 7 games of stats back up a lot of that as well with leading stats as both a passing qb and a running qb.

i'm not saying he isn't a running qb, but many of the people in this thread claiming he is a running qb are inferring or stating that because of that, that he can't also be a passing qb. im saying he is both a passing qb and a running qb.

I agree with the character comments, but I will disagree or maybe qualify one point and use Vick as an example (this also applies to Cunningham). Vick and Cunningham may have been primarily known as runners, but they were also both known to have cannons for arms. That's what separated them from the likes of Kordell Stewart and some of the other "slash"/running QBs. Vick's and Cunningham's arms were not only regarded as NFL-caliber arms, but were recognized as elite arms -- among the best in the entire NFL. Accuracy was cited as their biggest problem but the thinking was that any deficiencies in accuracy could be overcome through training and practice. Unfortunately, Vick could never really learn to read defenses and that has been his biggest downfall (ignoring his prison time, of course).

 

[RPD]

Just did pass attempts and rushing for first 7 STARTS:
Montana - 119/191 passing, 25 rushes, 7.64 passes per rush attempt.
Manning - 131/240 passing, 6 rushes, 40 passes per rush attempt.
Vick - 84/153 passing, 39 rushes, 3.92 passes per rush attempt.
All stats via - http://www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[AMDZen]

This thread needs more Andrew Luck girlfriend

 

[OBLAMA2009]

He is a fine athlete. Reminds me a little of Vick. Just pray RG3 doesn't start a dog slaughtering ring.

i wonder who will be arrested first--rg3, luck or tebow. im thinking tebow, he seems like a repressed dude who might do a roethlisberger type assault. i just hope he doesnt embarrass himself by doing it to an ugly chick like kobe did

 

[zinfamous]

^[Luck Girlfriend] hey man, that could ruin my prediction that this thread will have far less posts than last year's Tebow thread.

 

[AMDZen]

I'd be willing to bet anything you want that it won't be Tebow. Out of those 3 it will be RG3 for sure. All he has to do is drive to the south in his overpriced automobile and could potentially just get arrested because he is black, and has his white girlfriend sitting next to him. They would just trump up some charges on his ass.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

This thread needs more Andrew Luck girlfriend

shes way shorter that him, it looks weird. its always funny to see athletes wives that are 8s and 9s who are hooked up with ugly dudes like matt cain and tim lincecum. someone post rg3's girlfriend, is she white or black?

 

[AMDZen]

shes way shorter that him, it looks weird. its always funny to see athletes wives that are 8s and 9s who are hooked up with ugly dudes like matt cain and tim lincecum. someone post rg3's girlfriend, is she white or black?

Already did, included it in my argument that Luck is ahead of RG3 in all aspects of his life. He was drafted first, has the better skill set and will have the better career. Also has a much much hotter girlfriend.

She is white and overweight just like black people like 'em.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

"overweight just like black people like 'em." so baby got back? what post # was it

 

[AMDZen]

She's pretty freakin ugly if you ask me.

RG3=

Andrew Luck's =

Clearly Luck is ahead in all aspects of his life.

This one

She maybe isn't too overweight, she definitely got back though

 

[OBLAMA2009]

This one

She maybe isn't too overweight, she definitely got back though

oh jesus christ. tiki got a hotter one than that and hes broke. i wonder which one of those guys will impregnate more than one chick first, id say rg3

 

[purbeast0]

I agree with the character comments, but I will disagree or maybe qualify one point and use Vick as an example (this also applies to Cunningham). Vick and Cunningham may have been primarily known as runners, but they were also both known to have cannons for arms. That's what separated them from the likes of Kordell Stewart and some of the other "slash"/running QBs. Vick's and Cunningham's arms were not only regarded as NFL-caliber arms, but were recognized as elite arms -- among the best in the entire NFL. Accuracy was cited as their biggest problem but the thinking was that any deficiencies in accuracy could be overcome through training and practice. Unfortunately, Vick could never really learn to read defenses and that has been his biggest downfall (ignoring his prison time, of course).

i agree with this, and rg3 wasn't known to have a cannon, but was known to be an accurate qb with smart pass decision making, before he entered the nfl. and through 7 games i think it's safe to say that was a pretty solid assessment, as well as him having great qb football smarts, another thing that vick does not have nor probably ever will.

 

[GobBluth]

Was at the Giants/Skins game yesterday.
I was completely and totally impressed by Sir Robert the Third.
Here's the big difference IMO between Griffen and Vick, Newton, etc.
He makes smart decisions.
You don't often see him get hit after a 7 yard gain, because he doesn't take off and run unless he sees a wide open area. Then he takes off for 20-30 yards.
He has great vision and is good pocket passer as well.

As a Giants fan, he's gonna give us trouble for a long time.
Skins fans should be real happy with what they got.

Perhaps you have forgotten what Vick's rookie season looked like? Here, let me remind you.

Passing:
231/421 54.9%, 2,936 yrds, 16 TD, 8 Int, 44 20+ yd passes, 81.6 QBR

Rushing
113 attempts, 777 yards, 7.5 ypa, 8 TDs, 5 Fumbles

Let's not write him off yet, like we did with the last 2 heir apparent(s) (Cam, Vince)

I'd say Griffin is on par with Vick's rookie campaign. Although Griiffin is bigger and might be able to sustain hits and not get injured, he isn't quite as fast or elusive as Vick was at 22 y/o (although he is both fast and elusive). I think he is more NFL-ready than Vick was and will probably surpass him. Just don't hand him the keys to the "running QB" castle just yet. It has been just 7 weeks now.

On that note, as a Rams fan, RG3 is a cry baby telling the media that he thought the Rams were playing dirty. Quit running your mouth son and play football. So, my mind is set on RG3. Won't deny his skills, but will root against him for the foreseeable future.

**Tarkenton FTW**

 

[eits]

Already did, included it in my argument that Luck is ahead of RG3 in all aspects of his life. He was drafted first, has the better skill set and will have the better career. Also has a much much hotter girlfriend.

She is white and overweight just like black people like 'em.

she's not overweight at all. she's just stacked.

anyways, i think it's awesome that they've been together for as long as they have and he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who'd screw around on her. are there hotter girls? yeah... but he loves her and that's what matters more to him.

 

[AMDZen]

Thats fine, I'll still take Luck as my QB, I'll take my bets on Luck to be in superbowls and even in Canton one day, and I'll take his GF too.

That was my argument. Luck > RG3 IMO, even when it comes to their choice in women.

Granted, she looks a lot better in that white dress than the other 100 pictures I've seen, but I'll stack that one up to money making her look good and the camera angle. Its not her body so much as her face. I also kind of rescinded the overweight statement. She is, but not too much.

 

[eits]

Thats fine, I'll still take Luck as my QB, I'll take my bets on Luck to be in superbowls and even in Canton one day, and I'll take his GF too.

That was my argument. Luck > RG3 IMO, even when it comes to their choice in women.

Granted, she looks a lot better in that white dress than the other 100 pictures I've seen, but I'll stack that one up to money making her look good and the camera angle. Its not her body so much as her face. I also kind of rescinded the overweight statement. She is, but not too much.

i can almost guarantee rg3 will sooner reach a super bowl than luck. luck will be just another matthew stafford.

 

[hclarkjr]

i can almost guarantee rg3 will sooner reach a super bowl than luck. luck will be just another matthew stafford.

:thumbsup::biggrin:

 

[AMDZen]

i can almost guarantee rg3 will sooner reach a super bowl than luck. luck will be just another matthew stafford.

Reach one or win one? I'll take that bet

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i can almost guarantee rg3 will sooner reach a super bowl than luck. luck will be just another matthew stafford.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- breathe -- BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Two words: Dan Snyder.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[hclarkjr]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- breathe -- BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Two words: Dan Snyder.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA

keep beating that dead horse ICF!!!!