Revolution X

[imported_Aelius]

Someone I know beat the system when they got into University without a highschool diploma. Apperantly it was overlooked and once he was in they couldn't justify throwing him out since he was getting A+ honors in everything he touched. That is until he dropped out cause he got bored.

Moron.

Although I have my highschool diploma I got booted out of my College networking certification (MCSE, A+) program after 2nd of 3 semesters cause I failed the Microsoft NT class (was sick for 3 weeks out of the 4 week long class, however I did have A+ honors on my first major test in the first 3 days of class). My average in my computer courses was A+ honors up to that point.

I wonder how many other similar people end up without a College/University diploma.

Pitty. =/

P.S. Edit: By the way I blame the school for underfunding and not ever using the one position most important in cases like this, which is crisis management.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: digitalsm
It depends on the private school. Most are paid the same as most public school teachers. And quite alot do have masters, unless its a HIGHLY religious school.

There are PLENTY of ways to pay for a masters degree. And the govt could certainly help, it would be much better than just pissing away more money in the education system.

Yeah, they can get student loans. And spend the next 100 years paying them off. Sure.

Ok, so we fire all teachers that do not have a masters. What do we do until we get more than the 3 or 4 teachers we have left?

The avg cost of a masters is around $40,000, not accounting for living costs. And education reform needs to be done over the long term, 20-30 years. None of this short term BS fluff that does nothing.

Give up on the children currently in school hoping that long term improvements will solve the problem?

I didnt say that, but to solve the problems is going to require long term plans. Not short term, near sighted goals. One thing that could be done in short order is, spending money wisely.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
The majority of states do NOT have high educational standards for teachers. Your state might, but the VAST majority don't. The national avg is $44,500. With avgs in the mid $50s for places like CA, NY, and DC etc.

I said >$35k, whereas he was saying $30K. I knew it crossed $35K national average many years ago but was too lazy to look up exacts.

Originally posted by: digitalsm
Yeah graduation rates, drop out rates, and college attendence rates would beg to differ. So would alot of other ways to measure. The numbers of "over funded" school districts as you put it, as well as private schools DO NOT LIE. Diplomas may be like toliet paper, but there are some awful high drop out rates at almost ALL "poor" districts in the country. You can not go to college without a diploma.

Poor students may drop out more, but it has nothing to do with the school. Social ills happen independent of the amount of money pumped into the school. Some kids need emancipation just to survive. Some families require their kids to pull more weight at an earlier age than others, adding to the dropout rate. Thats a social problem, not an educational one.

Originally posted by: digitalsm
And yeah the administration should be held accountable. So should the schools boards. Politics and education do NOT mix. Funding should be put towards essential things first, non essential things, last. Its quite opposite in the current public education system.

Vigilance is required to change lethargy. Money has no effect. Your dedicated teachers bolt due to lack of support, not because of the pay. They do need to eat, true, but the consideration of the teacher's wage as profit is secondary to the other factors that motivate your average teaching professional. Your worst teachers do it for superficial reasons, and blatantly like to demonstrate how important they are to children. Children see through superficial people really well. These people tend to lead dysfunctional classrooms.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Perknose

So maybe
My ideas about this nation
Don't resolve around perfection
But at least I know
Education is more important
Than money.

:beer:

:beer: A free mind is worth more than a million dollars.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
I didnt say that, but to solve the problems is going to require long term plans. Not short term, near sighted goals. One thing that could be done in short order is, spending money wisely.

I can defintely agree with spending money wisely.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
Exellent work with great imagery nice to see young people standing up for what they believe too bad they destroyed her works and she got into so much trouble for this.comments?

link to information around what you said happened?

Of course on the surface such things are an out-rage and a good lawyer should be involved.

but then i have no idea what the actual facts of the situation are.

Most teachers work 9 months out of the year, and make $30,000. Most only have a B.A. They arent underpaid

yep.

And Im sorry its NOT just inner city schools that are bad, its ALL poor areas.

i'm sorry that race, instead of income, is used when looking at collage admissions. But then I?m bias, being a poor white guy who went to high school in an the county with the second highest unemployment in the country.

Yes is no child left behind is stupid,

don't forget unconstitutional.

So teachers are the enemy now?

No, teacher's unions... they have no interest in bettering the kids: i.e. school choice... but rather increasing the number of teachers: i.e. smaller classrooms.

I know that my classes with 20 taught by a BA in an unrelated field when?d nearly as informative or interesting as my classes of 40 taught by a MA.

$30,000/yr is nothing. Definitely not enough to live on.

w/ full medical, in an mean portion of the country, it's more than enough.

i know it's 28k starting, ending around 40k, here ware my family of 7 live off off less than 15k a year.

Most teachers aren?t worth the money they are paid.

this is just a sad fact that freedom in the school choice would fix.

Sure this has nothing to do with massive underfunding?

That?s EXACTLY the problem: but the under funding isn't of the school-system, it's of the price paid for teachers themselves that's to low... ware money allotted is limited, and supply is fixed *or you are trying to increase supply demanded with smaller classrooms* but money is fixed: the only thing left to fall is quality. If we had freedom of school choice teaching would be a viable profession for people who are capable of doing something other than teaching.

Are they living in DC, New York, or LA?

don't make 30k in those cities.

Often times teachers in private schools are paid less, and have less of an education.

but are of a higher quality because teacher's unions don't mess things up, and the teachers have a better atmosphere.

I wonder how many other similar people end up without a College/University diploma.

I?m down-right lazy, so I?ve had to jedi-mindtrick myself a number of grades; but then i go to a place that we lovingly refer to as 'taco tech'; I plan on teaching while taking the weekend masters courses.

 

[Steeplerot]

Google is spiritually good! Try it.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
Google is spiritually good! Try it.

I didn't post it, not my job to provide a contextual link for it.

If you'd like i can look for a news-max article about it, but I?d much prefer understand the context from which you get your info.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
This is the poem written by a teenager named Courtney
and read at a local Barnes & Noble and on her high school's
closed circuit TV system. This is the poem that led Courtney's
principle and the school's "military liason" to brand her "un-American"
and order her poetry destroyed. This is the poem that led to the
dismissal of teachers. This is the poem that led to art being torn
off the walls of an American school.

Exellent work with great imagery nice to see young people standing up for what they believe too bad she got into so much trouble for this.comments?

Thanks for posting what the student wrote Steeple.

While folks got off track with the pointing at Liberals and NeoCons alike, it is further proof it is no longer the "Land of the Free" which is the saddest part of all of this.

If it was still "The Land of the Free" there would still be hope the Education problem could be corrected but with massive corruption of both the NeoCon and Liberal Rich Boy Clubs and the deepening Police State it will only get worse until outside forces come in and topple the Empire again.

It's a good thing the Founding Fathers are all deceased because they would be crushed by what has happened to their dream that they worked so hard to become a reality only to be torn down by Greedy Rich Boys playing games with the core of the Country itself.

 

[chess9]

The author shows some talent and warms rapidly to her subject. I thought the second half was much better than the first half, but for a high school student that's a spectacular piece of writing.

I'm glad the Principal tried to suppress her right to speak freely. We need people like him so we don't become complacent. He is the gasoline for our fire. And, he will always have a job waiting for him in Georgia.



-Robert

 

[Red Dawn]

Teachers aren't the problem, Parents not getting involved with their childrens education is. Blaming the teachers is just passing the buck.

 

[chess9]

Parents are an order of magnitude more important than teachers at so many levels it is a wonder digitalsm's views have any currency.

My daughter goes to a magnet science and technology school. The kids in the program are largely Asian. The kids she respects are mostly Asian. The parents of these Asian kids expect all As on their kid's work. Anything less is failure. (Maybe this is a bit extreme because it runs counter to the culture. It does put a lot of pressure on the kids.) These Asian kids are filling our colleges and, most importantly, our graduate schools. Asians are a disproportionately large part of our research science force. They should all thank their parents for their smarts and their relatively high paying jobs.
Yes, their teachers made a contribution. But you can't plant seeds in infertile ground.

-Robert

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Teachers aren't the problem, Parents not getting involved with their childrens education is. Blaming the teachers is just passing the buck. An example picked up fron the current and past Administrations.

Yup, this man speaks the truth. Unfortunantly this is all too common.

We need more time, that is what bugs me most of all when it comes to my kids, i just don't have enough time, i would just cancel whateveri i want to do, but their schedule is as busy as mine, they have no real problems though, nothing big, and are doing well in school, so i guess i shouldn't complain.

Ah well, summer isn't far away now, then we can bug the hell out of eachother by living too close all the time.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Teachers aren't the problem, Parents not getting involved with their childrens education is. Blaming the teachers is just passing the buck.

Amen, ooops not allowed to say that in Godless America, sorry.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Teachers aren't the problem, Parents not getting involved with their childrens education is. Blaming the teachers is just passing the buck.

Good sentiment. A low quality school and parents that know how to care will always yeald a good kid, but under paying teachers does lead to lower quality teachers. The teacher union mantra of 'smaller class size' is one of the most basic reasons, beyond the wasteful bureaucracy, that teachers are paid much less than is needed to bring in more of the best and brightest to teach our next generation to be their best and brightest.

Parents are an order of magnitude more important than teachers at so many levels it is a wonder digitalsm's views have any currency.

Improving our school system so that kids have a chance at a better education can't just be ignored because parents should do more. School choice is an issue that may well bring the poor vote over to the Republican Party... you dems better watch yourself in pandering to your special interest groups that actually hurt the little guy.

Parents are an order of magnitude more important than teachers at so many levels it is a wonder digitalsm's views have any currency.

Every day is a challenge; if you don't achieve your best in everything then you will never achieve what you should have in life. As a side note, most probably because of that level of pressure, Asians have the highest teen suicide rate.

 

[Czar]

good poem:thumbsup:

 

[GoPackGo]

Stupid poem...this person needs to enter the real world for once.

If this is the fruit of todays left wing education system...I say chop down the tree.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Stupid poem...this person needs to enter the real world for once.

maybe so, but it is just a kid;

If you can't be an unappreciative liberal when you?re a kid in high school, when can you be ignorant?

It?s good to have kids that vocally disagree with athority, that way they can get a feel for all those non-pragmatic emotional arguments for socialism. This will help them come to the side of the republicans when they are elbow deep in dirty diapers and taking home a pay check ware 20c on every dollar is going to feed a bureaucracy that only works to perpetuate the welfare state of mind.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Stupid poem...this person needs to enter the real world for once.

maybe so, but it is just a kid;

If you can't be an unappreciative liberal when you?re a kid in high school, when can you be ignorant?

It?s good to have kids that vocally disagree with athority, that way they can get a feel for all those non-pragmatic emotional arguments for socialism. This will help them come to the side of the republicans when they are elbow deep in dirty diapers and taking home a pay check ware 20c on every dollar is going to feed a bureaucracy that only works to perpetuate the welfare state of mind.

Or not!

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Stupid poem...this person needs to enter the real world for once.

maybe so, but it is just a kid;

If you can't be an unappreciative liberal when you?re a kid in high school, when can you be ignorant?

It?s good to have kids that vocally disagree with athority, that way they can get a feel for all those non-pragmatic emotional arguments for socialism. This will help them come to the side of the republicans when they are elbow deep in dirty diapers and taking home a pay check ware 20c on every dollar is going to feed a bureaucracy that only works to perpetuate the welfare state of mind.

Or not!

heheh

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Teachers aren't the problem, Parents not getting involved with their childrens education is. Blaming the teachers is just passing the buck.

Schools today are just an extension of day care. Parents are in a rush to put their 7 week old baby into some one elses care so they can go about thier day making money. Sending the child to school is no different, its just a place to drop the kid off for the day.

But teachers can receive some of the blame as well. I recently moved from a small community in Tennessee. 50% of the students received financial aid and out of 38 counties this one is 35th as far as teacher pay goes. The school my daughter went to was ranked 7th in the state. Unfortunately we had to move. She just finished first grade. Some of the stuff she was working on in this new school at the end of frist grade, was the same she was working on a year ago at her other school.

I can only spend so much time with her during the day. She sits in school all day and I like for her to have play time when she gets home. So I believe its in my right to criticize our current school district and its teachers. I would like for them to challenge her. I requested the school give her more demanding projects, etc. Finally the school year is over and I can come up with another game plan, but I do blame the principal at this new school and the teaching staff for the level they have these students at.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Stupid poem...this person needs to enter the real world for once.

maybe so, but it is just a kid;

If you can't be an unappreciative liberal when you?re a kid in high school, when can you be ignorant?

It?s good to have kids that vocally disagree with athority, that way they can get a feel for all those non-pragmatic emotional arguments for socialism. This will help them come to the side of the republicans when they are elbow deep in dirty diapers and taking home a pay check ware 20c on every dollar is going to feed a bureaucracy that only works to perpetuate the welfare state of mind.

Or not!

heheh

lol, Shh.. I must assure my neo-con compatriot that even liberals serve the greater good of our neo-con imperial facist agenda.

Schools today are just an extension of day care. Parents are in a rush to put their 7 week old baby into some one elses care so they can go about thier day making money. Sending the child to school is no different, its just a place to drop the kid off for the day.

kids should have a parent at home, a new video game system, or a new car, or even a house ware all the kids have their own bedroom, is nothing in comparison to the good you do the child by having a parent that stays at home.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Teachers aren't the problem, Parents not getting involved with their childrens education is. Blaming the teachers is just passing the buck.

Schools today are just an extension of day care. Parents are in a rush to put their 7 week old baby into some one elses care so they can go about thier day making money. Sending the child to school is no different, its just a place to drop the kid off for the day.

But teachers can receive some of the blame as well. I recently moved from a small community in Tennessee. 50% of the students received financial aid and out of 38 counties this one is 35th as far as teacher pay goes. The school my daughter went to was ranked 7th in the state. Unfortunately we had to move. She just finished first grade. Some of the stuff she was working on in this new school at the end of frist grade, was the same she was working on a year ago at her other school.

I can only spend so much time with her during the day. She sits in school all day and I like for her to have play time when she gets home. So I believe its in my right to criticize our current school district and its teachers. I would like for them to challenge her. I requested the school give her more demanding projects, etc. Finally the school year is over and I can come up with another game plan, but I do blame the principal at this new school and the teaching staff for the level they have these students at.

Yeah but just imagine how much better she'd do if you would make the sacrifices to actually spend more time with her education!

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: chess9
Parents are an order of magnitude more important than teachers at so many levels it is a wonder digitalsm's views have any currency.

My daughter goes to a magnet science and technology school. The kids in the program are largely Asian. The kids she respects are mostly Asian. The parents of these Asian kids expect all As on their kid's work. Anything less is failure. (Maybe this is a bit extreme because it runs counter to the culture. It does put a lot of pressure on the kids.) These Asian kids are filling our colleges and, most importantly, our graduate schools. Asians are a disproportionately large part of our research science force. They should all thank their parents for their smarts and their relatively high paying jobs.
Yes, their teachers made a contribution. But you can't plant seeds in infertile ground.

-Robert

Best reply in this thread.

 

[geecee]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
This is the poem written by a teenager named Courtney
and read at a local Barnes & Noble and on her high school's
closed circuit TV system. This is the poem that led Courtney's
principle and the school's "military liason" to brand her "un-American"
and order her poetry destroyed. This is the poem that led to the
dismissal of teachers. This is the poem that led to art being torn
off the walls of an American school.

But it doesn't rhyme.