Revolution X

[Steeplerot]

This is the poem written by a teenager named Courtney
and read at a local Barnes & Noble and on her high school's
closed circuit TV system. This is the poem that led Courtney's
principle and the school's "military liason" to brand her "un-American"
and order her poetry destroyed. This is the poem that led to the
dismissal of teachers. This is the poem that led to art being torn
off the walls of an American school.



Bush said no child would be left behind
And yet kids from inner-city schools
Work on Central Avenue
Jingling cans that read
Please sir, may I have some more?
They hand out diplomas like toilet paper
And lower school standards
Because
Underpaid, unrespected teachers
Are afraid of losing their jobs
Funded by the standardised tests
That shows our competency
When I'm in detox.
This is the Land of the Free ...
Where the statute of limitations for rape is only five damn years!
And immigrants can't run for President.
Where Muslims are hunted because
Some suicidal men decided they didn't like
Our arrogant bid for modern imperialism.
This is the Land of the Free ...
You drive by a car whose
Bumper screams
God bless America!
Well, you can scratch out the B
And make it Godless
Because God left this country a long time ago.
The founding fathers made this nation
On a dream and now
Freedom of Speech
Lets Nazis burn crosses, but
Calls police to
Gay pride parades.
We somehow
Can afford war with Iraq
But we can't afford to pay the teachers
Who educate the young who hold the guns
Against the "Axis of Evil"
Land of the Free ...
This is the land
If you're politically assertive
They call you a traitor and
Damn you to ostracism.
Say good-bye to Johnny Walker Lindh
And his family.
Bye Bye.
American Pie.
So maybe
My ideas about this nation
Don't resolve around perfection
But at least I know
Education is more important
Than money.
Land of the Free . . .
If this was utopia
We'd have to see each other naked
Before we got married
But instead, we see each other naked all the time
Because the government has my social security number
And the name of my dog!
And then we make babies,
But don't worry, they won't be left behind
And they grow up saying
God bless America!
But they don't know who Bush is
Because they never learned the Presidents.
And they will ride the ship Amistad
To our dreamland shores
Bearing the same shackles as us.
I'm here to say that
Generation X
Is pissed and we are taking over,
Ripping down the American illusion of perfection
We are the future generation
I have my qualifications
I know it looks like Angel Soft paper,
But don't worry
It's a diploma
Do I look qualified?
You can take our toilet paper,
But you can't take our Revolution


Exellent work with great imagery nice to see young people standing up for what they believe too bad she got into so much trouble for this.comments?

 

[imported_Aelius]

Its proof that America is not the home of the free... but it is the home of the brave.

 

[digitalsm]

Most teachers work 9 months out of the year, and make $30,000. Most only have a B.A. They arent underpaid. Most are horrible at their jobs, and need to be fired, but cant because of teacher unions.

And Im sorry its NOT just inner city schools that are bad, its ALL poor areas. This whole bad education for blacks and minorities is just BS, because its bad for a large precentage of whites.

Yes is no child left behind is stupid, but so is everything the democrats have proposed. In fact anything the govt has come up with is stupid and wont fix the problems.

Teachers, parents and students arent held accountable, thats THE PROBLEM with education.

And with just scanning the poem, its warped, skewed, and basically leftist propaganda.

 

[Steeplerot]

So teachers are the enemy now?
I might remind you that teachers are one of the most important jobs in america.
30k is almost poverty level you would have a really hard time making a living here with that.
Not only this but quite a few teachers supplement the school budget with their own money.
What job should be paid more then a teacher?
Buisnessmen?
Lawyer?
Stockbroker?
What do they actually do for America that could be more important then teaching America's youth?
Your either trolling or very lost.

 

[n0cmonkey]

And to think, only a few years ago political commentary was encouraged...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
Most teachers work 9 months out of the year, and make $30,000. Most only have a B.A. They arent underpaid. Most are horrible at their jobs, and need to be fired, but cant because of teacher unions.

And Im sorry its NOT just inner city schools that are bad, its ALL poor areas. This whole bad education for blacks and minorities is just BS, because its bad for a large precentage of whites.

Yes is no child left behind is stupid, but so is everything the democrats have proposed. In fact anything the govt has come up with is stupid and wont fix the problems.

Teachers, parents and students arent held accountable, thats THE PROBLEM with education.

And with just scanning the poem, its warped, skewed, and basically leftist propaganda.

$30,000/yr is nothing. Definitely not enough to live on.

 

[conjur]

We somehow
Can afford war with Iraq
But we can't afford to pay the teachers
Who educate the young who hold the guns
Against the "Axis of Evil"

:beer:

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
So teachers are the enemy now?
I might remind you that teachers are one of the most important jobs in america.
30k is almost poverty level you would have a really hard time making a living here with that.
Not only this but quite a few teachers supplement the school budget with their own money.
What job should be paid more then a teacher?
Buisnessmen?
Lawyer?
Stockbroker?
What do they actually do for America that could be more important then teaching America's youth?
Your either trolling or very lost.

What exactly qualifies current teachers making more? Sure some do deserve it. The vast majority do not. Anyone with an IQ of 90 can graduate from a college with a B.A. and a 2.5 GPA.

$30,000 isnt a lot, but its above the avg for people with college degrees. And no this isnt just under Bush.

Most teachers arent worth the money they are paid.

 

[Perknose]

So maybe
My ideas about this nation
Don't resolve around perfection
But at least I know
Education is more important
Than money.

:beer:

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
So teachers are the enemy now?
I might remind you that teachers are one of the most important jobs in america.
30k is almost poverty level you would have a really hard time making a living here with that.
Not only this but quite a few teachers supplement the school budget with their own money.
What job should be paid more then a teacher?
Buisnessmen?
Lawyer?
Stockbroker?
What do they actually do for America that could be more important then teaching America's youth?
Your either trolling or very lost.

Yeah teachers are one of the most important jobs in the US. Thats why we need to get all of the lousy ass teachers out of teaching. Thats WHY teachers need to be HELD accountable. There are some that are good, the majority are not. Im all for good teachers getting paid, well, but most arent good, most arent even decent. The standard of teaching is so low, its not even funny. And whats more important these bad teachers are never held accountable. And $16,000 is poverty level, not $30,000, certainly not $30,000 + a spouses income. And $30,000 while single IS CERTAINLY NOT poverty level. Hell my brother and his wife, they have two kids, and make a combined $30,000 and are no where near poverty level.

I also might add. Public school teachers pay is quite well in line in the grand scheme of things. Most junior college profs make $40,000-$50,000, all have their masters, and most are also working towards their Ph.D. Most college profs make $70,000 to $90,000, plus federal grants and other awards for some.

 

[Steeplerot]

I'd like to see where you get your information that "vast majority" of teachers deserved less money or should be fired.
Sure this has nothing to do with massive underfunding?

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: conjur

We somehow
Can afford war with Iraq
But we can't afford to pay the teachers
Who educate the young who hold the guns
Against the "Axis of Evil"

:beer:

The national avg spent per student in public school is $8,000 a year. Private schools do far better, with far less per student.

Education should be about the basics, math, science, english, history, govt, and culture. Extracircular activies should be funded by fundraising, NOT by tax payer money. Sport facilities, except for the basics(weight room and mutlipurpose gym) should NOT be funded by tax payer money.

Education needs a total reform. And nothing liberals and conservatives have offered does that.

School Administrators need to be held accountable.
Teachers need to be held accountable.
Parents need to be held accountable.
Students need to be held accountable.

It seems people want to blame Bush for education, but quite frankly liberals have always touted education as their issue, and they have done nothing. FVCKING NOTHING.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Yeah teachers are one of the most important jobs in the US. Thats why we need to get all of the lousy ass teachers out of teaching. Thats WHY teachers need to be HELD accountable. There are some that are good, the majority are not. Im all for good teachers getting paid, well, but most arent good, most arent even decent. The standard of teaching is so low, its not even funny. And whats more important these bad teachers are never held accountable. And $16,000 is poverty level, not $30,000, certainly not $30,000 + a spouses income. And $30,000 while single IS CERTAINLY NOT poverty level. Hell my brother and his wife, they have two kids, and make a combined $30,000 and are no where near poverty level.

Are they living in DC, New York, or LA?

I also might add. Public school teachers pay is quite well in line in the grand scheme of things. Most junior college profs make $40,000-$50,000, all have their masters, and most are also working towards their Ph.D. Most college profs make $70,000 to $90,000, plus federal grants and other awards for some.

There aren't enough teachers out there, good or bad. There needs to be a way to encourage people to get into teaching. With more people to choose from, there should be more good teachers out there.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: conjur

We somehow
Can afford war with Iraq
But we can't afford to pay the teachers
Who educate the young who hold the guns
Against the "Axis of Evil"

:beer:

The national avg spent per student in public school is $8,000 a year. Private schools do far better, with far less per student.

Education should be about the basics, math, science, english, history, govt, and culture. Extracircular activies should be funded by fundraising, NOT by tax payer money. Sport facilities, except for the basics(weight room and mutlipurpose gym) should NOT be funded by tax payer money.

Education needs a total reform. And nothing liberals and conservatives have offered does that.

School Administrators need to be held accountable.
Teachers need to be held accountable.
Parents need to be held accountable.
Students need to be held accountable.

It seems people want to blame Bush for education, but quite frankly liberals have always touted education as their issue, and they have done nothing. FVCKING NOTHING.

And neither have conservatives. No one in the government wants to admit to a problem, and that they just done fudged up. They don't want to fix things, liberals and conservatives. It's the American way.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
I'd like to see where you get your information that "vast majority" of teachers deserved less money or should be fired.
Sure this has nothing to do with massive underfunding?

What massive underfunding? There IS PLENTY of money in public education. Its spent improperly. And no poor teachers arent a result of poor funding. They are a result of poor standards for teachers. Teachers should HAVE TO HAVE a Masters in the area they are teaching and a comprehensive course of study in teaching. Not a B.A. in psychology/sports medicine, and a one year teaching cerfticate. Give me a break.

You know what, the common thing in good school districts and private schools? Almost all of the teachers have advance degrees. And their pay isnt much higher, if any in most areas, then their other public school counterparts.

The standards to become are teacher are so piss poor, thats why we have a lot of horrible teachers.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: steeplerot
I'd like to see where you get your information that "vast majority" of teachers deserved less money or should be fired.
Sure this has nothing to do with massive underfunding?

What massive underfunding? There IS PLENTY of money in public education. Its spent improperly. And no poor teachers arent a result of poor funding. They are a result of poor standards for teachers. Teachers should HAVE TO HAVE a Masters in the area they are teaching and a comprehensive course of study in teaching. Not a B.A. in psychology/sports medicine, and a one year teaching cerfticate. Give me a break.

You know what, the common thing in good school districts and private schools? Almost all of the teachers have advance degrees. And their pay isnt much higher, if any in most areas, then their other public school counterparts.

The standards to become are teacher are so piss poor, thats why we have a lot of horrible teachers.

Often times teachers in private schools are paid less, and have less of an education.

Who is going to pay for the masters degree?

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Yeah teachers are one of the most important jobs in the US. Thats why we need to get all of the lousy ass teachers out of teaching. Thats WHY teachers need to be HELD accountable. There are some that are good, the majority are not. Im all for good teachers getting paid, well, but most arent good, most arent even decent. The standard of teaching is so low, its not even funny. And whats more important these bad teachers are never held accountable. And $16,000 is poverty level, not $30,000, certainly not $30,000 + a spouses income. And $30,000 while single IS CERTAINLY NOT poverty level. Hell my brother and his wife, they have two kids, and make a combined $30,000 and are no where near poverty level.

Are they living in DC, New York, or LA?

The avg salary of teachers in DC, CA, and NY are all over the $50,000. Over the national avg or $44,500.

 

[MadRat]

Diplomas are like toilet paper. Society puts absolutely no value in a high school diploma. If a job applicant is pushed to answer yes or no that they did graduate then in my state its against the law. So its not the schools that fail here, its the employment laws!

I don't know of any teachers, tenured or not, afraid to lose their jobs. Nobody wants to teach! Who are they fsck'n kidding? The pay sucks, the hours are long, the interaction with bad parents is usually painful at best, the good parents volounteer for 95% of all the work, and the 5% of genuine bad kids out there are generally using up 95% of your energy. Nah, nobody wants the job. The problem is more or less schools have expirimented with bringing in alot of young teachers to fascilitate changes only to find out young staffs have zero discipline. The old hens in the classroom are worth every dime!

Most of the poem had nothing to do with teachers or schools. Its funny how people latch on to those superstitions and run with the ideas as being nothing but the truth. I find the points about the different politics in everyday life as more or less as fanciful, too. I'm guessing this person was in late senior high, the time when alot of students turn activist. Unfortunately he or she has about zero experiences in real life to make these criticisms.

Originally posted by: digitalsm
Most teachers work 9 months out of the year, and make $30,000. Most only have a B.A. They arent underpaid. Most are horrible at their jobs, and need to be fired, but cant because of teacher unions.

You really don't know jack. The average teacher in the US works a 10.5 month calendar year, averages just >$35K than year (and its improving because of high costs of living, aging teacher base, and fairly high educational requirement in so many states) and on top of that they have to put up with people like you. I did it for five years which was plenty enough to see that its not all that bad if not too rigid for over-achievers. The only reason I left was not the pay, it was constant changes of the lemons that cycle through the head office. Its hard to change curriculum wholesale from year to year, let alone for each and every numbnuts that gets the head principal job. I found that if I was going to work that hard - for so much committed time, for so much crap, for so much accountability, for so little pay - then I was going to go work elsewhere and for a better cause.

Originally posted by: digitalsm
And Im sorry its NOT just inner city schools that are bad, its ALL poor areas. This whole bad education for blacks and minorities is just BS, because its bad for a large precentage of whites.

I find most POOR schools do a better job of raising good students than phony over-funded schools. You taxpayers like to think money solves all problems. Well, the money ain't going to the kids or the teachers. The administration sure spends it freely for all sorts of extravaganzas, but alot of it is spent for lawful purposes. Its not the head offices' problem if the overly goody-two-shoes laws suck. The best funded schools raise your criminals much better than your por schools contrary to popular belief. The poor schools can't afford distractions and fluff to pump the sunshine. Your best funded schools tend to have blanket rules for treatment, which IMHO are plain ignorant. Let the principals and teachers discipline to their liking and decide curiculum to their strengths.

Originally posted by: digitalsmYes is no child left behind is stupid, but so is everything the democrats have proposed. In fact anything the govt has come up with is stupid and wont fix the problems.
Teachers, parents and students arent held accountable, thats THE PROBLEM with education.
And with just scanning the poem, its warped, skewed, and basically leftist propaganda.

Get the "general" federal government out of education and things will improve. The feds came in and distracted the everyday classroom to the point where its pandemonium during several times of the year, especially in short months like February. You'd have to have been a teacher and been there to understand. The rules dropped on the classrooms by the feds are monolithic and authoritarian, regardless if they are often asinine to say the least. Instruction and inspiration is best left to the professionals.

Remove the discretionary funds from the head offices and you will see costs drop like a rock. Many schools have alternate funding sources that they do not account for, and rarely actually spend it on noble endeavours. Since the funds fall outside the rules for reporting, they tend to be stealth to the average taxpayer. My local school district blows almost $2 mil a year this way! And the school board, short of a lawsuit, refuses to make them account for this spending although my state laws clearly read that they do have to report it. I personally don't feel like spending a boat load of money to fight it, but it still is wrong.

 

[imported_Aelius]

It is a known fact that when you reduce pay or keep pay at low levels for professional positions those positions have a brain drain where a high turnaround occurs (usually in high stress jobs) that otherwise would have not happend at all.

I'm in the same boat. My job had virtually zero turnaround and the job was done really well. Although I'm not a teacher I'm just as much of a professional as any highschool teacher. I work in a high stress fast paced job where after wages were cut by 30% for current workers and 50% to those newly hired whom also get no benefits of any kind, 2/3 of the workers either quit or have been fired (those who made the most were let go to make way for those whom now do the same job for 50% less and no benefit costs).

Trust me from what I have seen low pay in a professional job setting does not bring in highly educated smart workers. There are exceptions, like me and two others that were hired with me. However for every 1 person you get that is golden you get about 99 that are crap. I lost count on how many people we hired on and lost within days or weeks of working there. The worst part is that we are talking about a staff of 35 max so thats saying a lot.

There is an old saying that I think fits professionals well; "You get what you pay for."

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: steeplerot
I'd like to see where you get your information that "vast majority" of teachers deserved less money or should be fired.
Sure this has nothing to do with massive underfunding?

What massive underfunding? There IS PLENTY of money in public education. Its spent improperly. And no poor teachers arent a result of poor funding. They are a result of poor standards for teachers. Teachers should HAVE TO HAVE a Masters in the area they are teaching and a comprehensive course of study in teaching. Not a B.A. in psychology/sports medicine, and a one year teaching cerfticate. Give me a break.

You know what, the common thing in good school districts and private schools? Almost all of the teachers have advance degrees. And their pay isnt much higher, if any in most areas, then their other public school counterparts.

The standards to become are teacher are so piss poor, thats why we have a lot of horrible teachers.

Often times teachers in private schools are paid less, and have less of an education.

Who is going to pay for the masters degree?

It depends on the private school. Most are paid the same as most public school teachers. And quite alot do have masters, unless its a HIGHLY religious school.

There are PLENTY of ways to pay for a masters degree. And the govt could certainly help, it would be much better than just pissing away more money in the education system.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
It depends on the private school. Most are paid the same as most public school teachers. And quite alot do have masters, unless its a HIGHLY religious school.

There are PLENTY of ways to pay for a masters degree. And the govt could certainly help, it would be much better than just pissing away more money in the education system.

Yeah, they can get student loans. And spend the next 100 years paying them off. Sure.

Ok, so we fire all teachers that do not have a masters. What do we do until we get more than the 3 or 4 teachers we have left?

 

[MadRat]

The educational degrees...

G.A. - got alittle
B.S. - bull stuffings
M.S. - more stuffing
PhD - piled higher and deeper

 

[digitalsm]

You really don't know jack. The average teacher in the US works a 10.5 month calendar year, averages just >$35K than year (and its improving because of high costs of living, aging teacher base, and fairly high educational requirement in so many states) and on top of that they have to put up with people like you. I did it for five years which was plenty enough to see that its not all that bad if not too rigid for over-achievers. The only reason I left was not the pay, it was constant changes of the lemons that cycle through the head office. Its hard to change curriculum wholesale from year to year, let alone for each and every numbnuts that gets the head principal job. I found that if I was going to work that hard - for so much committed time, for so much crap, for so much accountability, for so little pay - then I was going to go work elsewhere and for a better cause.

The majority of states do NOT have high educational standards for teachers. Your state might, but the VAST majority don't. The national avg is $44,500. With avgs in the mid $50s for places like CA, NY, and DC etc.

I find most POOR schools do a better job of raising good students than phony over-funded schools. You taxpayers like to think money solves all problems. Well, the money ain't going to the kids or the teachers. The administration sure spends it freely for all sorts of extravaganzas, but alot of it is spent for lawful purposes. Its not the head offices' problem if the overly goody-two-shoes laws suck. The best funded schools raise your criminals much better than your por schools contrary to popular belief. The poor schools can't afford distractions and fluff to pump the sunshine. Your best funded schools tend to have blanket rules for treatment, which IMHO are plain ignorant. Let the principals and teachers discipline to their liking and decide curiculum to their strengths.

Yeah graduation rates, drop out rates, and college attendence rates would beg to differ. So would alot of other ways to measure. The numbers of "over funded" school districts as you put it, as well as private schools DO NOT LIE. Diplomas may be like toliet paper, but there are some awful high drop out rates at almost ALL "poor" districts in the country. You can not go to college without a diploma.

And yeah the administration should be held accountable. So should the schools boards. Politics and education do NOT mix. Funding should be put towards essential things first, non essential things, last. Its quite opposite in the current public education system.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: digitalsm
It depends on the private school. Most are paid the same as most public school teachers. And quite alot do have masters, unless its a HIGHLY religious school.

There are PLENTY of ways to pay for a masters degree. And the govt could certainly help, it would be much better than just pissing away more money in the education system.

Yeah, they can get student loans. And spend the next 100 years paying them off. Sure.

Ok, so we fire all teachers that do not have a masters. What do we do until we get more than the 3 or 4 teachers we have left?

The avg cost of a masters is around $40,000, not accounting for living costs. I also said, and I do believe the govt does help out teachers working on their masters. Education reform needs to be done over the long term, 20-30 years. None of this short term BS fluff that does nothing.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: digitalsm
It depends on the private school. Most are paid the same as most public school teachers. And quite alot do have masters, unless its a HIGHLY religious school.

There are PLENTY of ways to pay for a masters degree. And the govt could certainly help, it would be much better than just pissing away more money in the education system.

Yeah, they can get student loans. And spend the next 100 years paying them off. Sure.

Ok, so we fire all teachers that do not have a masters. What do we do until we get more than the 3 or 4 teachers we have left?

The avg cost of a masters is around $40,000, not accounting for living costs. And education reform needs to be done over the long term, 20-30 years. None of this short term BS fluff that does nothing.

Give up on the children currently in school hoping that long term improvements will solve the problem?