Review request: High End HDMI Audio on a PC

[Mastakilla]

Hi all,

A while ago Auzentech finally announced their HDMI sound card:
http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/press.php

I've been waiting for this for a long time, because the alternatives for hooking up an surround amplifier to your desktop have lots of down sides

With a normal (non-HDMI) sound card you can:
* connect to your amplifier analog: the only downside of this is having too much cables and the loss of sound quality due to the analog cables and interference of the desktop itself
* connect to your amplifier using coax or optical cable: this is really bad... you can only send audio encoded in DTS or dolby stuff through this kind of connection... Now some sound cards are able to re-encode surround sound from your desktop in a DTS / Dolby stream (called Dolby Digital Live by Auzentech), but I have my doubts about the accuracy of this re-encode AND this introduces a great lag to the audio... (+100ms) This lag might be ok for movies (cause the amplifier can re-sync it in a later stage), but it is a no-go for games (you can't delay you own input by keyboard or mouse)

So finally we have the holy grail coming our way thx to Auzentech: a real HDMI sound card that can transfer raw, uncompressed multichannel audio

So while waiting for this HDMI sound card, I have started studying Surround Receivers (www.avsforum.com is a great source for this) and I have read lots of awesome things about all new Onkyo receivers, but I also read that they all suffer from adding lag to the sound (even the more expensive ones)
Again: this is no issue for music or movies, but this is obviously a no-go for games

So by this thread I would like request an extensive deep dive into HDMI high end sound with this Auzentech sound card (once you guys can get your hands on it) and all kinds of surround receivers

there are lots of things you can look at:

* music / sound quality (although this is probably hard to review, since all high end sound, sounds good 😛). But you can also look at how they implement converting stereo to surround music (if it is best to let the sound card or amplifier handle this)
* surround sound in movies (with all kinds of confusing standards floating around, there should be much to say about this 😛). also have a look at what software supports the "best" surround sound, etc
* surround in gaming (is it finally possible to have an equal surround gaming experience digital as it is analog with crappy computer speakers?)

and i'm probably forgetting many more aspects you can talk about 🙂

I hope I tempted you guys into another awesome in depth investigation 😀

Greetings

 

[Mastakilla]

hi again!

Am I the only one who is looking for a decent alround audio solution for my pc (music, movies and games)?
Others are welcome to express their sympathy for this kind of review 😉

Is there perhaps another way to send out this suggestion / request to the anand staff? (e.g.: a pm or an email?)

 

[PurdueRy]

DTS interactive and DDL does not introduce a 100+ms delay. It is more like 20ms and is very reasonable and in most cases unnoticeable.

What speakers do you have that you are this concerned about the quality of compressing audio to DTS or DD?

 

[Mastakilla]

Thanks for the reply

I'm not sure where I found the "100ms delay", but I'm sure I read it somewhere

The only reference I could find back atm is at a dutch forum which talks about a delay of 43ms MINIMUM:
http://gathering.tweakers.net/...ssages/1231057///auzen

Have you tested this 20ms delay? Or do you have reliable reference where they tested this?

Also, the delay is not the only problem, also the implementation of this re-encoding in DTS is too unclear
When a game "calculates" a 3D sound (using EAX or A3D), then I don't want another re-encode on top of it that modifies the 3D experience into "another" 3D experience (which is not the way it was meant to be)

Nowhere on the internet I could find a single decent test that verifies that the 3D sound remains "intact" after this extra re-encode with Dolby Digital Live

Atm I have the kef kht 2005.2 surround speakers... no professional grade speakers, but A LOT better then all pc speaker sets anyway
I'm also not concerned about the quality of compressing audio to DTS or DD, I am concerned about the re-encode which makes the surround sound sound in another way then it was meant to sound (and possibly also the delay)

btw: even if the delay is only 20ms (or 40ms), if you add the delay that is added by most surround amplifiers on top that, you easily get around 100ms...

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Mastakilla
Thanks for the reply

I'm not sure where I found the "100ms delay", but I'm sure I read it somewhere

The only reference I could find back atm is at a dutch forum which talks about a delay of 43ms MINIMUM:
http://gathering.tweakers.net/...ssages/1231057///auzen

Have you tested this 20ms delay? Or do you have reliable reference where they tested this?

Also, the delay is not the only problem, also the implementation of this re-encoding in DTS is too unclear
When a game "calculates" a 3D sound (using EAX or A3D), then I don't want another re-encode on top of it that modifies the 3D experience into "another" 3D experience (which is not the way it was meant to be)

Nowhere on the internet I could find a single decent test that verifies that the 3D sound remains "intact" after this extra re-encode with Dolby Digital Live

Atm I have the kef kht 2005.2 surround speakers... no professional grade speakers, but A LOT better then all pc speaker sets anyway
I'm also not concerned about the quality of compressing audio to DTS or DD, I am concerned about the re-encode which makes the surround sound sound in another way then it was meant to sound (and possibly also the delay)

btw: even if the delay is only 20ms (or 40ms), if you add the delay that is added by most surround amplifiers on top that, you easily get around 100ms...

I can only say you should just try it. I have heard no complaints about A/V sync with games on a computer using any DDL or DTS connect card. I have also not experienced any myself.

As for verifying the sound is "intact". You can run tests that output sound to each individual speaker. I would say that unless you hear sound in these tests partially coming out a different speaker then it is working as intended.

 

[Mastakilla]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
I can only say you should just try it. I have heard no complaints about A/V sync with games on a computer using any DDL or DTS connect card. I have also not experienced any myself.

As for verifying the sound is "intact". You can run tests that output sound to each individual speaker. I would say that unless you hear sound in these tests partially coming out a different speaker then it is working as intended.

I cant really try it atm, cause I dont have a receiver / amplifier that has a surround input yet
and buying one depends on what is needed 🙂

also I'm sure you guys know a little better what and how to test it 😉

I think sequentially sending sound to each speaker won't be a big problem either, but I'm wondering if they dont start adding stupid effects once it becomes a mix of sounds to all speakers

Also I cant really test multiple types of receivers on delay,as i dont really have the resources for that

arent their any other people then who are really interested in an extensive test with this "new generation" soundcard?

i've seen tests focussing on the media center side of soundcards / receivers, i've seen tests on the music quality of soundcards and i've seen tests on the gaming side of soundcards, but I've never seen a decent alround test that tries them all (and that is exactly what I see in my PC... I use it for movies, music and games)