Reverse polarity issues ?

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ericbaril84

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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2 seperate cicuits 120v AC

1 plug was reverse pololarized. plugged a device into it, there was a spark and it blew our Tv, cable box, and a laptop simultaneously plugged into a surge protector on another completly seperate circuit... please help shead some light i gotta fix this electrician says theres no way that happend that im mistaken... well it id happend exactly as i described it... there must be something terribly wrong :(
 

MagnusTheBrewer

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Jun 19, 2004
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The circuits may be poorly grounded. The runs for both circuits may be run closely together and sheathing is worn or, mice got at it so, when one blew it arced to another.
 

Raizinman

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Sep 7, 2007
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What do you mean by "reversed polarized"? I am imaging that you cut off a polarized plug and reconnected it reversed. Is this what you did?

To prevent shocks from the metal parts of a light, lamp cords and two-wire extension cords are always polarized. This means the plug has a small blade for the hot wire and a wide blade for the neutral wire, and the wires feeding those blades should not be reversed when you put a new plug on. Always use a polarized plug for a lamp, extension cord or any other cord that’s polarized to begin with. Don’t ever use a nonpolarized replacement plug with same-size blades to replace a polarized plug.
 

Mark R

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Oct 9, 1999
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Reverse polarity likely doesn't have much to do with it.

The likely explanation is that the appliance plugged in had a short-circuit fault. This caused a high current in the neutral, resulting in the neutral voltage being pulled in the direction of the faulted circuit.

Because the neutral voltage is now "partially hot", the voltage on a cirucuit connected to the other 120V leg is increased. This can blow stuff up.

The problem isn't reversed polarity, but a "high impedance neutral" fault.
 

Paperdoc

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Aug 17, 2006
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I suspect Mark R has the right answer; here's more detail. In common North American household power supplies the lines coming into the breaker panel are two "Hot" lines and a Neutral. The Hot lines are on opposite ends of the supply transformer, so the voltage from each Hot to Neutral is 120 VAC. But the voltage between the two Hot lines is 240 VAC. That higher voltage is used in heavy power things like the heating elements in stoves and electric dryers. But the common wall plugs, etc. are supplied with 120 VAC. To do that, half of the circuits are supplied from one of the Hot mains and the Neutral bus. The other half of the house's circuits are supplied from the other Hot main and the same common Neutral bus.

Now, it is not uncommon in some situations to wire a pair of circuits this way. A cable carrying the Neutral and two Hot lines, one from each Hot main, is run out from the breaker panel part way to a junction box. Back at the breaker panel, each of the Hot lines is fed from its main bus through a breaker rated at 15 amps, but there is no breaker in the Neutral line. At the junction box the two circuits are split in different directions, and each of these branches behaves and IS a common 120 VAC circuit of 15 amp capacity. Now, suppose that the Neutral line between the breaker box and the junction box is not solidly connected and has some resistance higher than it should be. The two circuits split at the junction may operate OK under normal circumstances. BUT if there is a direct short circuit from Hot to Neutral on one of those circuits, suddenly the Neutral line is no linger at zero volts - it is higher than that because of the abnormal resistance. Moreover, that voltage is OPPOSITE to the voltage on the other circuit's Hot line. The net result is that, in this abnormal circumstance (a short on one circuit), the voltage between Hot and Neutral on the OTHER circuit is suddenly HIGHER than it is supposed to be! That could cause problems on any device plugged into the second circuit.
 

DigDog

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47da81d74539f4b02a030dbb7346fa44.jpg
 

ericbaril84

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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thank you people for the responses. Its an old house we just took over and im thinking i should gut the wires and re-wire it.. when i opened the plug i noticed that the wires were not wired properly but i was comfused since i always thought reverse polarity on AC shouldnt cause problems. the panel was redone before we took it over but the wires are still all original and not looking all that good.. i appreciate all the feed back since i could not rap my head around what happend. i dont profess to be an expert. im a heavy equipement electronics technician and on DC some devices are really sensitive to reverse polarity... i really didnt think that was the issue... im going to focus on the wiring itself now .... thanks again
 

ericbaril84

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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the device plugged in was a hair straighter the wife was about to use... it wasnt damaged and was less than a year old... not saying it couldnt have short... but its something else i will look at too... wouldnt that trip the GFCI... cause that didnt trip either
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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As you learn about house wiring, you will find that reverse connections in a household AC system can be a real problem.

The root of it is this: the electrical distribution system for houses provides power from the pole-mounted transformer sort of this way: two Hot lines come from the opposite ends of a transformer secondary winding, and the Neutral line comes from a center tap of the winding. There is 120 VAC from Neutral to each Hot, but 240 VAC from one hot to the other. The extra feature you need to know is that, at the transformer, the Neutral line is connected to a true Ground (by bare copper cable to a rod pounded into the soil). At your house breaker panel, the panel has two Hot bus bars, a Neutral bus bar (these three connected to the incoming lines), and a Ground bus bar. The latter is connected by another bare copper wire to a good ground in the house nearby, VERY often the water supply line coming into the home that is a metal line buried in the ground. And also at this box, the Neutral bus is again connected to that Ground wire. So this establishes what is called a "Grounded Neutral" power supply and bus system. The Neutral line is connected to a true earth Ground at the panel and the transformer, thus establishing for the entire AC system a zero voltage reference point. So this AC system is NOT floating.

Note that, within the home wiring system, cables will have three wires per circuit - Hot, Neutral and Ground, the last usually being simply bare. The Ground is there for safety features, and normally is connected to surfaces that might be exposed and accessible from the outside. Under normal circumstances it should be carrying NO current at all. But if abnormal conditions arise that allow current to leak out to exterior surfaces, that current will be carried to true earth Ground at the breaker panel along a conductor with no other function, so it should not be anywhere near overloaded and should be able to get that current to Ground without developing any significant voltage. In cases of a malfunction that creates a large current draw to Ground, such as a short in the device, the current may be large enough to trip the breaker in the Hot supply line, thus shutting off the circuit.

In any device the design should ensure that all live circuit components, from Hot to Neutral lines, are isolated from the device case. Only the Ground line should be connected to the case that may be exposed to people. But there are some poorly-built items (usually for very small current draws) that have parts of the interior chassis connected to Neutral. If these also are properly connected to Ground that's not usually a problem. BUT if, for some reason, the power supply is miswired (say, reversed wires in the wall outlet), this makes the interior chassis parts Hot instead of Neutral. But they are also Grounded, so there's a short and the breaker for the circuit will blow immediately.

The worst-case scenario can come about in older devices built with no Ground wire in their supply cord, and hence no grounded interior components, but with the Neutral wire somewhere connected to an interior chassis frame. In this case, if the cord is plugged into the wall the wrong way OR the wall socket is wrong, that interior chassis could become Hot instead of Neutral. As long as a person can't reach the interior chassis AND as long as this device is not connected to any other electrical device, we're safe. But there is a potential hazard, for example, if the outer shell of the device is cracked and interior components are exposed. These situations don't occur often but can, and that's why reversed polarity on AC systems is still considered a problem.
 
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silicon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2004
886
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thank you people for the responses. Its an old house we just took over and im thinking i should gut the wires and re-wire it.. when i opened the plug i noticed that the wires were not wired properly but i was comfused since i always thought reverse polarity on AC shouldnt cause problems. the panel was redone before we took it over but the wires are still all original and not looking all that good.. i appreciate all the feed back since i could not rap my head around what happend. i dont profess to be an expert. im a heavy equipement electronics technician and on DC some devices are really sensitive to reverse polarity... i really didnt think that was the issue... im going to focus on the wiring itself now .... thanks again

buy yourself a little plugin polarity checker before sacrificing more expensive electronics. Are you in europe or north america. Most houses in NA have 220v coming in from the pole. This is split to create 120v at the plug or if needed 22ov for a water heater or electric cooking range. Its also possible the plug you used was incorrectly wired for 220v. If you have a radio shack or electirc supply they will have this little gadget for about $10.
 
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PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
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buy yourself a little plugin polarity checker before sacrificing more expensive electronics. Are you in europe or north america. Most houses in NA have 220v coming in from the pole. This is split to create 120v at the plug or if needed 22ov for a water heater or electric cooking range. Its also possible the plug you used was incorrectly wired for 220v. If you have a radio shack or electirc supply they will have this little gadget for about $10.

Good advice. I'd also look to see if your grounding is done properly. I can see where an ungrounded neutral could end up putting 220 volts across your 110 volt circuit under the right (or I should say wrong) circumstances. Here's a simple diagram that might help you:

images


Good luck!
 
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