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'Reverse Offshoring' A New Trend In Silicon Valley

Icepick

Diamond Member
Link: http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_183215653.html

Finally, some good news for the American IT workers just in time for Independence Day. Let's hope that this really is the start of a long term trend of having good jobs created in the United States.


===========================================
Thuy Vu
Reporting

(CBS 5) SAN JOSE Like.com is a search engine company in San Mateo that lets you find pictures of similar products on the web. But like.com is doing something once considered unlikely.

It has shut down its engineering center in Bangalore, India.

"The engineering is what we've moved back here completely now," said CEO Munial Shah. "Another set of positions we've eliminated there and now we're hiring here."

That's right. Jobs once outsourced to India now moving back to Silicon Valley.

Why? Engineering labor costs are skyrocketing in India. Two years ago, an engineer's salary there was about $25,000 a year. Now, it's $75,000. That's about 75 percent of what the average engineer makes in the U.S.

"At 75 percent, yeah, you're still saving a little bit, but why would you want to have your team so spread apart, different time zones, everyone has to stay up late," Shah said.

Tim Bajarin runs Creative Strategies, a high-tech market analysis firm in Campbell.

"We're just really seeing now the first phase of this, with like.com saying it doesn't pay anymore with these prices," Bajarin said. "The top engineers over there are in high demand. In order to get them, you have to hire at higher prices."

But Bajarin says the salaries for lower-skilled jobs in Bangalore and other parts of India remain cheap.

"Certain IT level jobs, customer service, customer relations, data entry. I think a lot of that stuff will stay in an outsource mode unfortunately."

But for high-priced engineering jobs, "reverse offshoring" may soon be the new catch phrase. Which is good news for Silicon Valley, where tens of thousands of outsourced jobs have gone to India.

"I think all the companies are there, whether they say it or not, are there for the labor savings... But I think you'll see a different shift," Shah said.

Shah also said reverse offshoring is a trend for startups because of their limited cash flow. But whether the big companies will do the same remains to be seen.

==============================================
 
I never really understood the whole offshoring trend for IT...sure it saves you some labor costs, but at the expense of teaming, collaboration and brainstorming.

As the IT playing field continues to narrow, the ability to capitalize on business opportunities requires high performance teams working under dynamic managers who can leverage matrix organizations...a task difficult to achieve when half of your team is in another time zone halfway around the world.

 
I have personally seen several instances of reverse offshoring for programming jobs. I've yet to see a single offshoring initiative succeed when a company offshores engineering work. It's usually the last gasp of a failing company or project effort
 
Where I work, we're slowly moving things back from offshore. As of yet, its netted us one extra body to help with the workload, whilst a number of staff in Manila got the can. I'm glad companies are bringing things back to the States, but just because jobs are coming back doesn't mean its always roses.
 
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I never really understood the whole offshoring trend for IT...sure it saves you some labor costs, but at the expense of teaming, collaboration and brainstorming.

As the IT playing field continues to narrow, the ability to capitalize on business opportunities requires high performance teams working under dynamic managers who can leverage matrix organizations...a task difficult to achieve when half of your team is in another time zone halfway around the world.

I don't think i have ever seen so many buzz together in one statement before.

Anyway, It is interesting to see things moving back; but that was inevitable. all about supply and demand. There was a huge supply in India, then that dried up, meaning that the price is going to go up. With little demand here locally, the price stabilized or lowered (but probably not likely). India's labor price surpasses local price, so you bring the labor back here. Given, this is just for high skilled engineers, but I'm sure the same principles would apply to other fields. Also, the completely does not account for intangibles...
 
Originally posted by: AmpedSilence
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I never really understood the whole offshoring trend for IT...sure it saves you some labor costs, but at the expense of teaming, collaboration and brainstorming.

As the IT playing field continues to narrow, the ability to capitalize on business opportunities requires high performance teams working under dynamic managers who can leverage matrix organizations...a task difficult to achieve when half of your team is in another time zone halfway around the world.

</end quote></div>

I don't think i have ever seen so many buzz together in one statement before.

Anyway, It is interesting to see things moving back; but that was inevitable. all about supply and demand. There was a huge supply in India, then that dried up, meaning that the price is going to go up. With little demand here locally, the price stabilized or lowered (but probably not likely). India's labor price surpasses local price, so you bring the labor back here. Given, this is just for high skilled engineers, but I'm sure the same principles would apply to other fields. Also, the completely does not account for intangibles...

I dont think price has anything to do with it. Indian programmers are still a dime a dozen. The problem lies with the fact that the projects they attempt to offshore almost always fail. Developing a successful software system takes alot of communication, collaboration, and teamwork, and like StarBuck said, that is very difficult to do with a programming team half way around the world, with language and cultural barriers to boot.

 
Great artical, great reponses. Now its my turn to steal a line from Dave: Funny how when I posted the same thing a month ago I got smacked around lol

Must be the messenger 😀
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Great artical, great reponses. Now its my turn to steal a line from Dave: Funny how when I posted the same thing a month ago I got smacked around lol

Must be the messenger 😀

Thank you
 
Actually, this is only temporary.
There is a shortage of engineers now in India due to the rapid expansion of outsourcing.
However, Indian universities have undergone a major expansion and in a few years there will be a surplus of Indian engineers. Which will once again lower their wages so jobs will again be outsourced to them.
And China has been slow to get into the importation of American technical jobs due to lack of university graduates, their own booming manufacturing base and American restrictions on technology transfers to India.
But hang on, the Chinese are still gearing up to steal our tech jobs.
Give them some time, its not easy stealing the worlds largest manufacturing base.
 
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: AmpedSilence
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I never really understood the whole offshoring trend for IT...sure it saves you some labor costs, but at the expense of teaming, collaboration and brainstorming.

As the IT playing field continues to narrow, the ability to capitalize on business opportunities requires high performance teams working under dynamic managers who can leverage matrix organizations...a task difficult to achieve when half of your team is in another time zone halfway around the world.

</end quote></div>

I don't think i have ever seen so many buzz together in one statement before.

Anyway, It is interesting to see things moving back; but that was inevitable. all about supply and demand. There was a huge supply in India, then that dried up, meaning that the price is going to go up. With little demand here locally, the price stabilized or lowered (but probably not likely). India's labor price surpasses local price, so you bring the labor back here. Given, this is just for high skilled engineers, but I'm sure the same principles would apply to other fields. Also, the completely does not account for intangibles...</end quote></div>

I dont think price has anything to do with it. Indian programmers are still a dime a dozen. The problem lies with the fact that the projects they attempt to offshore almost always fail. Developing a successful software system takes alot of communication, collaboration, and teamwork, and like StarBuck said, that is very difficult to do with a programming team half way around the world, with language and cultural barriers to boot.
Probably the reason that Intel Whitefield project failed. It's not as easy to outsource as people think.
Engineering is a team sport. You need to build a team, and that takes time. Time, which in this competitive landscape is more expensive than money. The successful IT companies in India are going to be the homegrown ones that take time to grow as a team, organically. Not American companies who come in and say, hey, let's lay off 500 engineers in the US and hire 500 engineers here, and hope to get same result for less money. It's not going to work.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Great artical, great reponses. Now its my turn to steal a line from Dave: Funny how when I posted the same thing a month ago I got smacked around lol

Must be the messenger 😀


I'll give the same response as I did then...GREAT!!! :thumbsup:

I don't care how or why they some back as long as they come back. Would be nice to have more of our manufacturing base come back also, but of course many here would disagree.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: blackangst1
Great artical, great reponses. Now its my turn to steal a line from Dave: Funny how when I posted the same thing a month ago I got smacked around lol

Must be the messenger 😀</end quote></div>


I'll give the same response as I did then...GREAT!!! :thumbsup:

I don't care how or why they some back as long as they come back.

Would be nice to have more of our manufacturing base come back also, but of course many here would disagree.

Get the right leadership it can be done.

Have to be vigilant against those that we know disagree.
 
Try looking into the economic effects of building things overseas.
1. It improves our standard of living by allowing us to buy cheap goods.
2. If frees up our labor supply to focus on jobs and products that have a greater value.

In 2005 the median income of all Americans over the age of 15 was $31,275.
That is up from $28,116 in 1980 and $29,040 in 1970.

In 1950 34% of jobs in this country were manufacturing jobs; in 2002 it was down to 13%.
At the same time in 1950 the median income (in 2005 dollars) was only $17,649 while in 2002 it was $31,739.
We have lost well over half our manufacturing jobs, but our standard of living has gone up greatly at the same time. There is nothing magical about manufacturing jobs. I think the only reason we hear so much about them is because of the political power that went with them.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Actually, this is only temporary.
There is a shortage of engineers now in India due to the rapid expansion of outsourcing.
However, Indian universities have undergone a major expansion and in a few years there will be a surplus of Indian engineers. Which will once again lower their wages so jobs will again be outsourced to them.
And China has been slow to get into the importation of American technical jobs due to lack of university graduates, their own booming manufacturing base and American restrictions on technology transfers to India.
But hang on, the Chinese are still gearing up to steal our tech jobs.
Give them some time, its not easy stealing the worlds largest manufacturing base.

I remember having read that India has or had 279,000 engineering students in the college pipeline, which seems like a tremendous number. As for China, one of China's problems is that most Chinese people don't speak English whereas anyone who's graduating from college in India is probably very fluent in English.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
In 2005 the median income of all Americans over the age of 15 was $31,275.
That is up from $28,116 in 1980 and $29,040 in 1970.
You disprove your own point. In 35 years, the median income has only increased by 7.7% even though productivity has probably increased 100-200% in that time. That is proof the income lowering effect of outsourcing. Show me any other point in time in US history where the wages have risen by so slow a rate. The only such period is probably time periods including the great depression. There have beens periods of time in America where median income could grow by 7.7% in 2 years.
 
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
I remember having read that India has or had 279,000 engineering students in the college pipeline, which seems like a tremendous number. As for China, one of China's problems is that most Chinese people don't speak English whereas anyone who's graduating from college in India is probably very fluent in English.
And also, chinese engineers are needed by china's own indiginous industry which is simply massive. They won't have a lot of free engineers to outsource.
 
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