Reverse Discrimination

[8ball]

Black history month promotes discrimination. It needs to go away.
Native Americans should not get one more cent from the U.S. government.

I am not racist. I have two close relatives who have black ancestors. I am part Apache.

 

[Kadarin]

I agree. If people are allowed to promote "AZN Pride", they should also be allowed to promote "Caucasian Pride"..

 

[compuwiz1]

<< Black history month promotes discrimination. >>



How so?




<< Native Americans should not get one more cent from the U.S. government. >>



Wasn't it us whites, pushing them off onto their own parcels, known today as reservations. Don't know if I can quite agree with you there. I feel some of our actions have help create some of the social problems, the native americans still endure. We didn't exactly integrate them into society, and many of their people have not had the same opportunities as a result.
Your statement is too narrow a view to consider, as an absolute, we don't give any more money, etc.

 

[BornStar]

Yeah, two of my friends went to a school near my home town and, as pretty much everywhere does, they had gay pride day. Well, they decided it would be good to have straight pride. I mean, who isn't proud to be straight? I sure am. Anyway, they got attacked by just about everyone for how intolerant they were being. Where does it say that this is a problem and shouldn't be allowed? The dorm finally ruled on it and decided to allow the sign on the door. My friends got major publicity over this. I don't see any wrong doing on their part but I guess that must mean that I'm intolerant too.

 

[Amused]

Hopefully soon minorities will figure out that the backlash from these things do more harm than the so-called education or "pride" they promote.

We will never achieve a a true "melting pot" if people keep associating their identity with their race, instead of their common nationality. Events and education targeted at any specific color or race are counter productive in my opinion.

 

[Colt45]

<< Events and education targeted at any specific color or race are counter productive in my opinion. >>



i'll agree with you on that one

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

<< Hopefully soon minorities will figure out that the backlash from these things do more harm than the so-called education or "pride" they promote.

We will never achieve a a true "melting pot" if people keep associating their identity with their race, instead of their common nationality. Events and education targeted at any specific color or race are counter productive in my opinion. >>



We are more like a "salad bowl" atm.

 

[areohbe]

black history month is only one month. white history month is every other 11 months.

 

[BornStar]

<< black history month is only one month. white history month is every other 11 months. >>


How do you figure? What is there that you could honestly use to back up this point?

 

[8ball]

<<

<< Black history month promotes discrimination. >>



How so?




<< Native Americans should not get one more cent from the U.S. government. >>



Wasn't it us whites, pushing them off onto their own parcels, known today as reservations. Don't know if I can quite agree with you there. I feel some of our actions have help create some of the social problems, the native americans still endure. We didn't exactly integrate them into society, and many of their people have not had the same opportunities as a result.
Your statement is too narrow a view to consider, as an absolute, we don't give any more money, etc. >>



My six year old neice who is white as white can be (but has black ancestors) never knew that people who had "brown" skin were called "black". She was innocently ignorant to anything like that until February when she learned about Black history month. I found it very important to make it a non-issue. Now she's ruined about those things. Now she has to see people with labels. When she used to describe someone, she wouldn't say "He/she is black". Now it's the first thing she says to describe them.

So what if it was whites who pushed the natives off onto their own parcels. They had the chance to fight and they lost. I don't see Italy paying EVERYONE money because of the conquests they made centurys ago. I don't see the Spanish giving Mexicans any money. I don't see...The list could go on. It's the way the world worked before we became a bunch of guilt ridden pansys.

 

[8ball]

And another thing!!!





Sorry.

 

[gopunk]

i was not aware that people get more money because they are native americans... how does this work? was it in the contracts originally signed when they gave up the land? if it was, we should honor it.

 

[8ball]

All you have to be able to do is prove you have a Native ancestor and get registered with that tribe. Friend of mine who is about 1/64th got $20,000 when he turned 21.

What contract?

 

[gopunk]

<< All you have to be able to do is prove you have a Native ancestor and get registered with that tribe. Friend of mine who is about 1/64th got $20,000 when he turned 21.

What contract? >>



i think some tribes signed agreements with the U.S. government when they gave up land and crap. that's why they get reservations... i think.

 

[Orsorum]

<<

<<

<< Black history month promotes discrimination. >>


How so?


<< Native Americans should not get one more cent from the U.S. government. >>


Wasn't it us whites, pushing them off onto their own parcels, known today as reservations. Don't know if I can quite agree with you there. I feel some of our actions have help create some of the social problems, the native americans still endure. We didn't exactly integrate them into society, and many of their people have not had the same opportunities as a result.
Your statement is too narrow a view to consider, as an absolute, we don't give any more money, etc. >>


My six year old neice who is white as white can be (but has black ancestors) never knew that people who had "brown" skin were called "black". She was innocently ignorant to anything like that until February when she learned about Black history month. I found it very important to make it a non-issue. Now she's ruined about those things. Now she has to see people with labels. When she used to describe someone, she wouldn't say "He/she is black". Now it's the first thing she says to describe them.
So what if it was whites who pushed the natives off onto their own parcels. They had the chance to fight and they lost. I don't see Italy paying EVERYONE money because of the conquests they made centurys ago. I don't see the Spanish giving Mexicans any money. I don't see...The list could go on. It's the way the world worked before we became a bunch of guilt ridden pansys. >>



8Ball - I agree with your words wholeheartedly.

 

[Zebo]

<< Black history month promotes discrimination. It needs to go away.
Native Americans should not get one more cent from the U.S. government.

I am not racist. I have two close relatives who have black ancestors. I am part Apache. >>



I don't see any problems with it. I'm a member of the swedish american club and we have dinners together and recall our history about twice a year. Sort of makes you understand where you came from culturally speaking.



<< If people are allowed to promote "AZN Pride", they should also be allowed to promote "Caucasian Pride".. >>



We do. Ever heard of all the european american clubs? Or any history book is a caucasian pride book since the authors tend to leave out other than white history.

Carbonyl ,<==== proud Viking lord.

 

[Hubris]

<< Black history month promotes discrimination. It needs to go away.
Native Americans should not get one more cent from the U.S. government.

I am not racist. I have two close relatives who have black ancestors. I am part Apache. >>



While my first instinct is to agree with you about Black History Month, I recently watched an episode of a PBS special called "Eyes on the Prize" in my history class, about the Civil Rights Movement. It's humbling to see the absolute CRAP that blacks had to go through just to be allowed to vote, use public accomodations, and get access to equal schooling. They were (and are, in some places) seen as non-human. It's chilling the complete lack of humanity that was shown to them, as they were attacked with fire hoses and dogs, and beaten unconscious while NON-VIOLENTLY protesting. This has nothing directly to do with Black History Month, but blacks had to endure many many beatings not 50 years ago just to be able to eat at the same lunch counter as whites, and to not have to give up their seats on a bus so a white person could sit down, or to go to the same school as whites. We've come a LONG way, but we still have a aways to go. Part of me wants to agree with you; that singling out one race for praise is ludicrous and will only create tension. But on the other hand, with curriculums being what they are in a lot of places, black achievements and their recognition need a helping hand in order for people not to be completely ignorant of them.

[On an aside tangent, WTF is up with the out of control appreciation days, or national toilet week, etc.? God damn, that crap is annoying.]

The Indians are a bit different. You make the analogy of Italy not making reparations for what the Romans did (I assume you meant the Romans); the Italian government is not the Roman government. The Roman government was overthrown long ago. The US government, however, is still alive and kicking. And the US government sent Indians to reservations and promised to provide food and provisions for them, as they were robbed of their traditional hunter/gathering lifestyle. And the government was most certainly not exactly honest in their providing for the Indians. Sending too few supplies, sending rotten meat, little to no health care, banishing them to sh!tty ass land that no one else wanted; all that's a part of the Indian experience. The US gov't had an obligation to the Indians, signed CONTRACTS with the Indians for these things, and did not provide them as they should have. They made treaties with Indians to preserve fishing rights which were broken almost immediately by white fishers.

The US government tried to mandate the obliteration of an entire cultural way of life in its dealings with the Indians. They tried to force Indians to follow the "American" way of life, denying them the rights of citizens if they did not accept US government terms for how they lived on the crap land they WERE given. And, in final answer to your "grievance", in 1946, Congress established the Indian Claims Commission for the very purpose of compensating Indians for land that was stolen from them.

 

[Nefrodite]

can't they just get off the reservation become us citizens and enjoy all the benifits.. assimilate and stuff instead of rotting on reservations? i dunno, seems like they are screwing themselves by trying to go it alone

 

[Hubris]

<< can't they just get off the reservation become us citizens and enjoy all the benifits.. assimilate and stuff instead of rotting on reservations? i dunno, seems like they are screwing themselves by trying to go it alone >>



Can't they just be all American? After being terrorized, signing treaties with the US government only to have them repeatedly broken; to have their cultural way of life spat on and crushed? Gee, I wonder why they don't like us. Granted, I'm not one for giving them back their land of anything, but they tried armed resistance, it didn't work, so they made treaties with the US government, which were, in turn, not honored.

 

[8ball]

Great response Hubris. I'm not saying we shouldn't recognize what black people have gone through. It needs to be taught in school. But it should be done in the context of the subject. For example, when teaching about the '60s, that's when you teach about MLK and Rosa Parks and Kent state. It should be no different than when they teach about any white historical figure. It should be done all year long. In one class I had in HS, we studied human rights. That's when we learned about Ghandi, and Marine basic training (not that they are related). That's a perfect time to also study the minority oppression in US history. That's when we learned about South Africa. It doesn't need to be taught to kids in kindergarten. It saddened me the day my niece learned about it. Innocence lost. I know it's going to happen, but it shouldn't have happened then. BUT-she's not ruined. She's being raised to know that skin color doesn't matter.

Carbonyl-Belonging to an ethnic club is great. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Hubris]

<< Great response Hubris. I'm not saying we shouldn't recognize what black people have gone through. It needs to be taught in school. But it should be done in the context of the subject. For example, when teaching about the '60s, that's when you teach about MLK and Rosa Parks and Kent state. It should be no different than when they teach about any white historical figure. It should be done all year long. In one class I had in HS, we studied human rights. That's when we learned about Ghandi, and Marine basic training (not that they are related). That's a perfect time to also study the minority oppression in US history. That's when we learned about South Africa. It doesn't need to be taught to kids in kindergarten. It saddened me the day my niece learned about it. Innocence lost. I know it's going to happen, but it shouldn't have happened then. BUT-she's not ruined. She's being raised to know that skin color doesn't matter.

Carbonyl-Belonging to an ethnic club is great. I don't see anything wrong with that. >>



I agree that they should be taught within the context of then they occured, but it's such a sticky quagmire issue of hundreds of years of oppression and subjugation that I don't think I'm qualified to challenge you as to why Black History Month is valid. I'm glad that I can go to an Ivy League university and not be spat on because I'm black, and can go into any store in the world without being shown the door or stalked by security guards because I might be a thief. But at the same time, the black side of my family does not have the history that American blacks have, my father having come straight from Africa in the 60's. I may have the skin of a black person, but I don't have the history of struggle and the experience with racism that they have.

Edit: Oh, and classifying people by their skin color is a natural thing to do. It's a difference and should be seen as such. The same way that one sees a red car and mentions that it's a red car. The PROBLEM comes in when you assign a different value to the red car than to the blue one. And it doesn't sound like your niece is going to do that, so bravo to you.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< Reverse Discrimination >>



What exactly does reverse discrimination mean? Is that similar to not discriminating?

 

[Nefrodite]

Can't they just be all American? After being terrorized, signing treaties with the US government only to have them repeatedly broken; to have their cultural way of life spat on and crushed? Gee, I wonder why they don't like us. Granted, I'm not one for giving them back their land of anything, but they tried armed resistance, it didn't work, so they made treaties with the US government, which were, in turn, not honored.



true, but that was long ago. time to get with the program perhaps that kind of sh*t happens to people all over the world historically

 

[Hubris]

<< Can't they just be all American? After being terrorized, signing treaties with the US government only to have them repeatedly broken; to have their cultural way of life spat on and crushed? Gee, I wonder why they don't like us. Granted, I'm not one for giving them back their land of anything, but they tried armed resistance, it didn't work, so they made treaties with the US government, which were, in turn, not honored.



true, but that was long ago. time to get with the program perhaps that kind of sh*t happens to people all over the world historically >>



Well then, if it happens all the time, then it must be all right then. I, for one, can't say I'd forgive and forget if the government exterminated MY race, then told me they would stop and that I could live in peace, only to screw me over repeatedly, no matter WHEN it happened

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

The generation(s) that suffered should be payed, should be supported so they can get back into society as full members.
Giving cash to a '1/64th Indian' is BS to my opinion. His grandparents probably never saw a buffalo, let alone that guy himself. If your parents got robbed of everything they had during your childhood, you suffered too. But to keep on paying future generations is bs, either give them their land back, give those you stole it from, or their direct descendants, a fair payment for it, but don't just keep on paying each generation. If you pay each generation a small amount it either means you give the people you stole it from far too little, or you will be paying people who have no bond with what was once taken 'too much'.

History should be preserved, and I don't mind people being proud of where they came from (if it isn't at nationalistic/suprematist level at least), but people should also look at more recent history, rather than picking one period that suits them best and to use that to profile themselves. The nastier parts of history, like slavery and Nazi-Germany, should not be forgotten, but rather than sticking to those periods and using them to set yourself apart we should try to create a unity among humans, to try and understand eachother. You can use the nasty periods to see what mistakes were made and to try prevent making those again.

Discrimination and racism are still alive and well among humanity, and may always be, but that doesn't mean that the smarter part of humanity may once see the stupidity of it all.

Reverse discrimination is not equal to paying back a dept, although it also comes forth from feelings of guilt. It just gives those who don't get the benefits from it a reason to hate that group even more.