Returned two Thinkpads, what next??

[aamsel]

Well, I just returned two Thinkpads under the 30 day money-back policy.
1.) Model 2378FVU, 14.1" SXGA+
Problems were:
- EXTREMELY limited viewing angles, horizontal and vertical (I only cared about the vertical). There was a very, very tiny sweet spot.
- Backlight leakage, plus the bottom of the screen (about 1") was more illuminated than the rest of the screen.
- One dead pixel
- Flimsy top cover. I had read that the Thinkpads have a super-strong cover, but if you run your fingers across the top cover with the machine on, you can see the LCD "ripple".
- I got the "bad" keyboard (Chinese) and the "bad" battery (Sanyo). I do realize that IBM would have remedied these, but I was ready to send it back anyhow because of the other issues.

2.) Model 2379DXU, 15" SXGA+ with Flexview screen
This notebook was overall much more solid than the notebook #1 above, but I did not like the screen overall. It did not have ghosting in DVD playback that I saw (I don't game much) but the screen was overall unappealing. It looked "washed out" as far as the colors. The blacks and whites were not very black and white. I was not very impressed with my first look at Flexview.
- Also, I got the "bad" (Chinese) keyboard and the "bad" (Sanyo) battery.

What the heck do I get now. I thought that the Thinkpads were the "creme de la creme" but they seemed overall quite average. Maybe it was just the models I ordered, don't know???

Also, I am quite sure that XGA or WXGA is all that I need in a small, light machine.

On the larger end, I can get an HP nc6000 with XGA, or a Compaq x1000/HP zt3000/HP nx7010 with WXGA.

I would try another Thinkpad, but all they offer in XGA has only a 7500 card. I would be interested in an X31, but I can't do a system that ONLY has Glidepoint and no touchpad.

In the smaller varieties, there is the SONY 12" V505 series. Not worth it???

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

I would like the highest possible build quality, and good warranty that accidental damage protection can be added to. I don't know anyone other than IBM or HP that offer this at a reasonable price???

I could go for the 6.5 pound Compaq/HP widescreen, but it is really heavier than I want.

PLEASE OFFER SUGGESTIONS:
I had it down to one of the above Thinkpads, and now that I didn't like either of them, I have no ideas.
XGA or WXGA only please.

Thanks,

Andrew
Austin, TX

 

[Wuzup101]

Check out a 15" Powerbook at your local apple store... chances are you'll like it I've been a PC guy for years (and I still love my PCs). That being said I think the PowerBook might just interest you...

 

[dennisjai215]

well when u buy something old of course YMMV =P

 

[aamsel]

What do you mean "something old"?????

Andrew
Austin, TX

Originally posted by: dennisjai215
well when u buy something old of course YMMV =P

 

[dennisjai215]

Originally posted by: aamsel
What do you mean "something old"?????

Andrew
Austin, TX

Originally posted by: dennisjai215
well when u buy something old of course YMMV =P

i thought you bought refurb products if not, sorry =]

 

[cy7878]

SOunds you have way too high of expectations. If you consider a KB "bad" if it is made in China, then guess what? They are ALL made in China now a days. Even the Powerbooks are assembled in China with China made parts.

 

[JihadJim]

But doesn't the 2378FVU have the IPS screen? So it should be better quality then your average (ibm) screen.

?

 

[jvarszegi]

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

Sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about. The Crystal View screen, as well as XBrite, has a very effective anti-glare coating. You must never have seen one in person-- or maybe this is about to turn into another scam adverstisement for a rubbish retailer like CyberPower, Inc. I find your results respecting Thinkpads... troubling.


Edit: On second thought, I've reread the ad by the original poster, and it's of course completely obvious that he/she/they work(s) for HP! What a dummy I am. HP must have noticed similar tactics by Dell on other boards, like epinions.com . Bravo, marketing schmuck. It's a little bit of a tipoff (and over-the-top ridiculous) when you restrict your choices to only HP machines (Compaq is owned by HP now).

BTW, for others, I've had first-hand experience with HP's build quality and customer service at work, as my company's standardized on HP. It's a very bad buy.

Now, one of two things will happen: either the poster will respond with lots of creamy gooness about HP, and publicly "decide" after much simulated hand-wringing to go with HP/Compaq after all, or my post will be completely ignored.

 

[Abhi]

Originally posted by: jvarszegi

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

On second thought, I've reread the ad by the original poster, and it's of course completely obvious that he/she/they work(s) for HP!

He is a member for the last 4 and a half years.... Give him some credit.

 

[dennisjai215]

you wanna tlak about chinese?
sonny heres a reminder
check your tims!
it prolly said made in CHINA!

 

[aamsel]

Originally posted by: jvarszegi

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

Sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about. The Crystal View screen, as well as XBrite, has a very effective anti-glare coating. You must never have seen one in person-- or maybe this is about to turn into another scam adverstisement for a rubbish retailer like CyberPower, Inc. I find your results respecting Thinkpads... troubling.


Edit: On second thought, I've reread the ad by the original poster, and it's of course completely obvious that he/she/they work(s) for HP! What a dummy I am. HP must have noticed similar tactics by Dell on other boards, like epinions.com . Bravo, marketing schmuck. It's a little bit of a tipoff (and over-the-top ridiculous) when you restrict your choices to only HP machines (Compaq is owned by HP now).

BTW, for others, I've had first-hand experience with HP's build quality and customer service at work, as my company's standardized on HP. It's a very bad buy.

Now, one of two things will happen: either the poster will respond with lots of creamy gooness about HP, and publicly "decide" after much simulated hand-wringing to go with HP/Compaq after all, or my post will be completely ignored.

Neither of the above!!!! I WORK FOR HP????? That is absolutely the funniest thing I have read this year.
No sir/madam I do not work for any computer company. I work, in fact, for a company that is standardized on Dell. (just like yours is standardized on HP.) Dell notebooks, desktops, and servers. I manage a network that is 100 percent Dell!!! (no, as I said quite clearly, I don't work for Dell either)!!! (gosh, sorry, you are still making me laugh)

OK, OBVIOUSLY you didn't read my post, even when you re-read it.
I returned two Thinkpads, because of real and perceived issues, but I did not expect the lack of quality I received. At this moment, I am trying to decide whether to get an HP, or re-order one of the IBM's that I did not keep.
I am not an IBM "basher" or a "basher" of ANY KIND!!! I don't troll, never have, never will.
Why don't you search in these forums for my posts to date, and see how much IBM bashing or HP banner waiving I have done. None, nada, zilch.

I have merely been looking for a notebook, decided on Thinkpad, and was disappointed with what I received from them last week. PERIOD!!!

As for my not know ing what a Crystal View or XBrite screen looks like, I have seen many of them, and if there is "effective" anti-glare on them, I guess there is "effective ant-glare" on my bathroom mirror.
When you are sitting at a notebook and see your own face reflected in the screen, that is NOT effective anti-glare to me.

In fact, the Flexview is the only IPS screen I have ever seen that truly has effective anti-glare. That was one of the few things that I liked about the 2379DXU's screen on the unit that I received.

In regard to: "I find your results respecting Thinkpads... troubling" you, sir, or madam, have a serious problem. Serious. I did not condemn IBM as a company, I merely said that I got two notebooks. TWO, out of millions, one of which had some defects, and one which I didn't like as much as I thought I would.

Did you read the part where I said "maybe it was just the models I ordered", and the fact that I was still considering an XGA Thinkpad????? If I was out to condemn IBM, would I be contemplating the placement of another order???


I have never had my ass jumped quite like you jumped mine, and I don't appreciate it at all.

I would appreciate less offensive remarks in the future.

I try to be hepful and constructive in replies to other's posts and request that you do so in the future. Otherwise, please refrain from replying.

Thanks,

Andrew
Austin, TX

 

[eriqesque]

I think if you are un-hapy with 2 different IBM machines.
You have way to high of expectations
If IBM can not meet your quality expectations then it is hopeless.
They are far superior to any other, save apple powerbooks.

 

[aamsel]

Additionally:
I have nothing against Chinese products.
If you all will go to www.thinkpads.com and check the forums there, you will find a HUGE amount of discussion about the Chinese vs Thai keyboards (the Thai being better) and the SONY vs Sanyo batteries (the SONY being better.)
My being against Chinese products is preposterous.

What we are talking about is two countries of origin for the same component, and one of them happens to be considered better than the other.

ONCE AGAIN....PERIOD!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: jvarszegi

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

Sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about. The Crystal View screen, as well as XBrite, has a very effective anti-glare coating. You must never have seen one in person-- or maybe this is about to turn into another scam adverstisement for a rubbish retailer like CyberPower, Inc. I find your results respecting Thinkpads... troubling.


Edit: On second thought, I've reread the ad by the original poster, and it's of course completely obvious that he/she/they work(s) for HP! What a dummy I am. HP must have noticed similar tactics by Dell on other boards, like epinions.com . Bravo, marketing schmuck. It's a little bit of a tipoff (and over-the-top ridiculous) when you restrict your choices to only HP machines (Compaq is owned by HP now).

BTW, for others, I've had first-hand experience with HP's build quality and customer service at work, as my company's standardized on HP. It's a very bad buy.

Now, one of two things will happen: either the poster will respond with lots of creamy gooness about HP, and publicly "decide" after much simulated hand-wringing to go with HP/Compaq after all, or my post will be completely ignored.

Funny... I had a similar hair on the back of my neck tingle too when I read this post.

I've experienced none of the issues the poster explains about his t42's. Considering that we have several different models of t42's and t42p's in house today, I find it odd. The complaints about the rigidity of the screen bezel are unfounded and the viewing angle of the screen on a notebook is fairly irrelevant given most users use their laptop dead on to keyboard. Also, we've experienced no issue with back light bleed through or not being uniform. That's on existing units and ones we continue to recieve today.

 

[aamsel]

OK, what in the hell is going on with you guys/gals???
I posted a bunch of questions here for MONTHS before ordering.
I had no idea that I would get two units I didn't like.

Then, I post my honest impressions, and you act like I have infiltrated this newsgroup deliberately to post anti-IBM propoganda in order to aid its compeditors??????

Sorry, but you folks have flipped your lids.

I suggest, SERIOUSLY, that you search these forums for my previous posts.

You will find that I am one individual who has been looking for a laptop, in fact, I used to to other things too!!!

I have posted on forums all over the world, and NEVER have I been accused of being anti-IBM. I have posted and replied to posts about every laptop made, including researching pros and cons of almost every model in existance that I have been interested in.

I am sorry, but you ALL owe me an apology, because you are making me seriously upset!!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

 

[aamsel]

Dan:
Have you seen a 2378FVU ???
This is the one that had the rigidity issue, the backlight leakage (and a dead pixel)???
I ask because this is a highly discounted unit, especially with the SPP I bought it under
(YES, I AM A SHAREHOLDER....WOW!!!! BOTH ANTI-IBM AND A SHAREHOLDER) <grin>

Seriously, there can always be a sample to sample variation among laptops or any electronic goods.

As for the 15" with Flexview, it really didn't have any true defects, I guess that I am just not a "Flexview person"

So, realistically, you can say that I received ONE defective Thinkpad, and didn't really like the second one that much. Does that make it sound better???

Is there some other possible explanation for the defects I found in the 2378FVU ????
Is there a "tried and true" 14" XGA model that I could try ????
(yes, I am willing to order and try another one)

Andrew
Austin, TX

Originally posted by: WackyDanI've experienced none of the issues the poster explains about his t42's. Considering that we have several different models of t42's and t42p's in house today, I find it odd. The complaints about the rigidity of the screen bezel are unfounded and the viewing angle of the screen on a notebook is fairly irrelevant given most users use their laptop dead on to keyboard. Also, we've experienced no issue with back light bleed through or not being uniform. That's on existing units and ones we continue to recieve today.

 

[cy7878]

I have to say after reading all the posts that we all are taking this IBM royalty too far. I have owned 6 since 1998 and I am willing to admit that quality is definitely NOT the same as it was way back when. But I also understand that while I paid $4000 in 1998 for a mid level Tp600, the same money will buy me 2 T41 today.

 

[spanner]

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

My roomate has an xbrite screen. It looks nice but it is very reflective. I can see my hands in it when I type. I find this rather annoying.

My t41 is on its way. HP/Compaq being better build quality then IBM = COMPLETE BS, they don't even come close to DELL, never mind IBM.

 

[aamsel]

I am sorry, who here said that HP/Compaq was better build quality than IBM???
I know that I never said that, I said that I was looking for an alternative to the Thinkpads I tried, and one option was two HP's that I am considering. That they are better or worse quality remains to be seen.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Originally posted by: spanner...[HP/Compaq being better build quality then IBM = COMPLETE BS, they don't even come close to DELL, never mind IBM.

 

[Abhi]

Originally posted by: aamsel

I am sorry, but you ALL owe me an apology, because you are making me seriously upset!!!

What did i do ?

 

[aamsel]

I didn't mean you, since you were the one defending me yesterday!!
I meant the couple that were "slamming me" without adequate reason.
Thanks!!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

Originally posted by: Abhi

Originally posted by: aamsel

I am sorry, but you ALL owe me an apology, because you are making me seriously upset!!!

What did i do ?

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: spanner

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

My roomate has an xbrite screen. It looks nice but it is very reflective. I can see my hands in it when I type. I find this rather annoying.

My t41 is on its way. HP/Compaq being better build quality then IBM = COMPLETE BS, they don't even come close to DELL, never mind IBM.

The build quality for the two hp/compaq models he mentioned are WAY superior to Dell. At least to the sh!ty inspiron line.

 

[jvarszegi]

I apologize for making you upset. I guess I did call you a liar, so I'm sorry. I haven't had such problems with Thinkpads, but I should've realized that you could very easily have had different experiences. You're right that component quality matters a lot.

I haven't used an XBrite, although I've seen a couple in a store, so I can't really say much about Sony screen quality. One of my friends does have a Fujitsu S6220 with a Crystal View screen, though, and I can tell you that it isn't highly reflective like the other person is claiming for XBrite. A very bright light behind your head at the wrong angle may result in a faint purplish glow, but nothing serious. It definitely won't reflect your hands while you're typing or anything; it's probably the least reflective high-quality screen I've ever seen. It's less reflective than many non-polished screens.

I'm not an IBM fanboy or anything. If you want to buy HP, go ahead. I would still take a long look if possible at the following brands if you don't want to try IBM again:

Toshiba
Fujitsu (especially because high graphics quality doesn't seem super-important to you in a thin-and-light)
Dell
ABS (if thin-and-light isn't the absolute most important attribute, and you want a strong machine with decent support for a good price)

I've had bad customer-support experiences from Dell and HP, from Dell at home and HP at work. I'd prefer Dell over HP just because the build quality is a little better than HP's in my experience. Here in the office we have a mix of big horking HP nx9010's and smaller nc6000's, and none of them are what I would call great machines. The nc6000 is not awful, but its keyboard doesn't lend itself to rapid or long typing. One of the three in our small office had to be sent for a keyboard replacement after it arrived. Another one developed a rare driver issue with the graphics card that somehow rendered it incapable of even booting into safe mode (??? don't ask me, I don't really know how it could be), and instead of sending it back I reinstalled the OS and after that everything was fine. The graphics card in the nc6000 is good, and you can buy a modular battery for very good runtime, but the machine is a little bit on the big and heavy side if you're looking for a thin-and-light, and the extra battery just makes it heavier. The screen is also not great; it's not very bright and has a bluish cast, which you can offset by monkeying with the color settings of the graphics card. I don't have direct experience of other HP machines, and I don't have experience with later-model Compaqs.

If you have lots of friends into computers, you must be able to find one or two with current machines from HP and Dell and the other brands. Even if they're not the exact models you're looking into, I'd still check out the keyboards etc. Except maybe for the new AOpen-built 700m, keyboard feel is pretty similar across all of Dell's models. I'd also try to get my hands on the S6000 series from Fujitsu if at all possible; you might like it quite a bit. There used to be a keyboard-flex problem (that was easily fixable), but it seems to be remedied now. My friend's S6220 is really nice, in my opinion; the only drawback I can see is that it has integrated graphics.

It's too bad that the Inspiron 600m doesn't have a better screen. I have a Dell with an UltraSharp display, with what I'd call a semi-polished surface. It's super-bright and not very reflective at all. The one on the 600m is okay, but not great.

 

[jvarszegi]

My roomate has an xbrite screen. It looks nice but it is very reflective. I can see my hands in it when I type. I find this rather annoying.

spanner, I'm not calling you a liar, but how can this be? Does the XBrite cast reflections in several different directions from every light source? (This is not impossible.) I'm sitting in front of a Dell laptop right now, and the only way I can get any reflection of my hands whatsoever is to move the screen to approximately a 45 degree angle with the keyboard.

 

[darkangelPM]

Most IPS screens such as the Xbrite are highly reflective. They aren't like your dell; they look like highly polished glass. I have used them in store and while I love how brilliant they look, they are just gorgeous, and amazing in my opinion, they are slightly annoying to use. They do reflect you hands, or you face sometimes, they also will pick up light form all around. Even with that I would trade my M6N's screen for an IPS screen if I could, they are just that pretty. When I first saw them I tried to make one fit in to my budget, but all at it did not work out . Anyways, they would reflect, and they reflect just about everything. The only one with a normal laptop like finish is the Flexview by IBM. I have not seen a Flexview in person, but I would imagine that they would not be quite as brilliant as the ones with the highly reflective screen, taking in to account how they work and how they were originally designed to be used. IPS screens weren't supposed to be put in to laptops, they use more power than a standard LCD, and have slower response times, but I suppose someone decided that they must had a IPS screen in their laptop, and made it work.