Fortuyn had nothing against Western immigration, he didn't want to put a ban on that, just on non-western.
Originally posted by: Scipionix
Originally posted by: Chooco
oh oh can i be the victim now?
Acceptable speech -- KKK: "Black people shouldn't be allowed to vote or defile our white women." Neo-Nazis: "The Jews drink the blood of Christian children on Passover." Islamofacists: "Allah will punish the infidel United States! Praise Mohammed Atta and his fellow shahid!"
Unacceptable speech -- KKK: "Let's kill some black people." Neo-Nazis: "Soon we shall overthrow the Jew-run American government." Islamofacists in London: "May Allah's messengers kill Tony Blair!"
i guess yer right
KKK - "my jesus is whiter than your jesus"
Fortuyn's platform: "Bringing in more poorly educated people with no income is a burden we can no longer bear."
Sounds like he wanted to try to bring in only people who would contribute to society. Sounds like what the USA does and what every country has an absolute right to do.
I don't like people telling me I don't care about the millions of people who died in WW II. My hate against the Nazis and what they stand for may well run deeper than the hate the KKK feels against black people. Which is also why I do not like people saying the same as them, and gathering the dumb masses behind their ideas.
What he said to the press beforehand and in his columns is much stronger than that, but he softened it so he wouldn't get into problems. He has always said that once he gained power he would do what he had said from the start anyway. He said several times that immigration from western countries was ok, but not other countries. Educated people from non-western countries weren't welcome either.
you would really think so wouldn't you?
come to Canada and see how screwed up our system really is...... we let in guys who have criminal records, diseses such as AIDS, hepatitis and scurvey i think it was. we let in guys who don't speak a world of english (or french in Quebec's case). we let in guys who have actually admitted to being arms dealers. we let people in who ARE terrorists and we KNOW that they are terrorists.
you know that thing about some arab guy who planned to blow up some thing in California at the year 2000 celebration but was stopped at the border? that guy came into canada with no passport, no identification and he actually admitted that he was an arms dealer yet we still let them come in.
Canada's birth rate is EXTREMELY low, our population actually DEPENDS on immigrants just to keep itself stable. that is where all these problems start to come in. immigrants favour immigrants because they were immigrants too so if a politician says he will cut back on immigration or start making strict rules, the immigrants will not vote him in again. it creates almost a system of extortion where politicians are almost NOT ALLOWED to make new policies towards immigration because they know it will cost their job, their pension and their special privilages of being a politician. god save this country.........
If you want to say that someone worships Adolf Hitler, supports his dream of Aryan German domination of the world, and advocates the annihilation of lesser races, then call him a Nazi. Otherwise, don't. If you want to say that someone supports the use of mayhem and murder to terrorize blacks with the ultimate goal of subjugating them, call him a KKK member. Otherwise, don't.
Choco: The United States depends on them too. The problem is that nobody expects immigrants to learn English, respect our laws and our political system, find productive work, and recognize the United States as the only country worthy of their loyalty once they want to become citizens. The granting of citizenship is in a sense a contract, or at least it should be; it is not an entitlement. It should be this: we help you learn English, we don't discriminate against you, we provide you with the rights and privileges that our natural-born citizens have. You learn our language, adapt to our culture, respect our Constitution, and renounce your alliegience to your homeland. Simple, isn't it?
but there is a diffrence in the US. if you take 1 million immigrants per year like Canada does, that is 1/30 the entire population. that is HUGE.
to understand what is going down in Canada, the US would have to bring in 10 million immigrants per year to understand the degree of how screwed teh political system is now.
maybe that bucanan guy was onto somethin when he said "shut the doors"
immigration WOULD work good if they did fit our customs and learn english like every other American (continental tense) has to. immigration is so big here that high schools always have programs called 'ESL' or 'English as a Second Language'
the strange thing though, there were things on TV of how our system kicks out people who we WANT to stay. one example was a couple from Britain, they both had jobs, neither had a criminal record or disease yet they were sent back home because their visa thing expired and they actually WANTED to stay. another example was about the kid of an American who fled to Canada to escape being drafted into Nam. the kid owned a company which was successful and employed roughly 50,000 people. his daughter had some disease and the government said they would not be allowed to have that burdon on society because they were not official Canadian citizens. the guy being a wealthy bussiness owner said he would gladly pay for any medical services that his daughter requires but they said no so he packed up his bussiness and jammed it on down to Washington i think it was. 50,000 people lost their jobs in Canada because of stupid government crap designed to make this the least efficient country ever.
there's also things about immigrants who's visas have expired but they have claimed refugee status so they can stay, the government doesn't even check if they are telling the truth or not. if the guy says he will be killed if he is sent back, he can stay in the country living on welfare.
you know the story of those Chinese guys coming in boats to Canada via the Pacific Ocean? they don't speak a word of englih, they have no education, no job or plan of how they will live yet they can stay......those guys from China were put on welfare and clothed by the government and everything.........what a joke.
i think we should bring in the policy that Australia has, i saw it on TV. immigrants trying to sneak into the country illegaly are put into camps where they wait up to a year just to be released, it's sort of like a sub-par jail similar to what you would find in what the hurtin countries those guys are trying to escape in the first place.....you'd think twice about trying to sneak in if you knew you would beaten like a monkey if yer caught.
Implying that I don't care about mass murder isn't exactly gonna make me like him either. If I'm in a bad mood like I am at the moment I take it out on anyone pissing me off.
Like I'll stand out between the 'Help! A girl looked in my direction, think she likes me?' people here
Edit: If you don't like it, go play Wolfenstein instead. I'll shoot you in the back later on today then.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Like I'll stand out between the 'Help! A girl looked in my direction, think she likes me?' people here
Edit: If you don't like it, go play Wolfenstein instead. I'll shoot you in the back later on today then.
Heh, actually, I've been fooling around with RTCW multiplayer a bit lately. I just finished the single player game a couple of weeks ago.
Seriously, though, it's just not cool or mature to imply crap like that. Not only is it childish, but it reeks of political/ideological fanaticism. The hard left activists here in the US call anyone right of Ralph Nader KKK this and KKK that. It's stupid, and it's like a giant neon sign on their foreheads that screams "I'm an irrational fanatic!"
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Like I'll stand out between the 'Help! A girl looked in my direction, think she likes me?' people here
Edit: If you don't like it, go play Wolfenstein instead. I'll shoot you in the back later on today then.
Heh, actually, I've been fooling around with WTCW multiplayer a bit lately. I just finished the single player game a couple of weeks ago.
Seriously, though, it's just not cool or mature to imply crap like that. Not only is it childish, but it reeks of political/ideological fanaticism. The hard left activists here in the US call anyone right of Ralph Nader KKK this and KKK that. It's stupid, and it's like a giant neon sign on their foreheads that screams "I'm an irrational fanatic!"
WW II is one of the subjects I do not like jokes about (at least I hope he meant it in a joking way, else he just lost any respect he ever might have had from me). Especially when I'm in a very bad mood.
P.S. Do check out the Happy_Penguin_II server, running mp_tank. One of the better maps (have to download it), running on a server with a 64 player maximum. If you only have standard maps at the moment you can always try mp_depot on Happy_Penguin instead. 64 player servers rock.
hmm, this thread has deteriorated a little
bottom line... i like to call my indian friend a "sh!t monkey". if some people had their way, i would be locked up for that, even though my friend doesn't mind and calls me a "piss monkey" in return. that's what you risk when you decide you want to implement some 1984 big brother type laws where you literally can not say certain words... you risk imprisoning people who didn't mean a goddamn thing and have no ill will towards any ethnic or whatever groups.
bottom line... i like to call my indian friend a "sh!t monkey". if some people had their way, i would be locked up for that, even though my friend doesn't mind and calls me a "piss monkey" in return. that's what you risk when you decide you want to implement some 1984 big brother type laws where you literally can not say certain words... you risk imprisoning people who didn't mean a goddamn thing and have no ill will towards any ethnic or whatever groups.
Originally posted by: gopunk
hmm, this thread has deteriorated a little
bottom line... i like to call my indian friend a "sh!t monkey". if some people had their way, i would be locked up for that, even though my friend doesn't mind and calls me a "piss monkey" in return. that's what you risk when you decide you want to implement some 1984 big brother type laws where you literally can not say certain words... you risk imprisoning people who didn't mean a goddamn thing and have no ill will towards any ethnic or whatever groups.
There is still a stong feeling about nazi symbols there, you insult a lot of people with them. It's not like you send a personal insult to one person, it's like an Arabic guy walking around NY in a t-shirt saying 'My dad flew into the WTC and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!'. Personally I'd say he can claim freedom of speech all he wants, but should be locked up for good.
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Originally posted by: gopunk
hmm, this thread has deteriorated a little
bottom line... i like to call my indian friend a "sh!t monkey". if some people had their way, i would be locked up for that, even though my friend doesn't mind and calls me a "piss monkey" in return. that's what you risk when you decide you want to implement some 1984 big brother type laws where you literally can not say certain words... you risk imprisoning people who didn't mean a goddamn thing and have no ill will towards any ethnic or whatever groups.
There is still a stong feeling about nazi symbols there, you insult a lot of people with them. It's not like you send a personal insult to one person, it's like an Arabic guy walking around NY in a t-shirt saying 'My dad flew into the WTC and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!'. Personally I'd say he can claim freedom of speech all he wants, but should be locked up for good.
see that's where we disagree. that comment is made in extremely poor taste and judgement, but it is nobody's place to punish someone for such things. i mean, i'm sure i'd offend a lot of people by calling them "sh!t monkeys", but i would disagree with the assertion that i should be locked up for it.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,347
- 19,508
- 146
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Originally posted by: gopunk
hmm, this thread has deteriorated a little
bottom line... i like to call my indian friend a "sh!t monkey". if some people had their way, i would be locked up for that, even though my friend doesn't mind and calls me a "piss monkey" in return. that's what you risk when you decide you want to implement some 1984 big brother type laws where you literally can not say certain words... you risk imprisoning people who didn't mean a goddamn thing and have no ill will towards any ethnic or whatever groups.
There is still a stong feeling about nazi symbols there, you insult a lot of people with them. It's not like you send a personal insult to one person, it's like an Arabic guy walking around NY in a t-shirt saying 'My dad flew into the WTC and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!'. Personally I'd say he can claim freedom of speech all he wants, but should be locked up for good.
Actually, there is an American website with some very offensive WTC T-shirts for sale. No one has locked them up.
The point here is, what happens when something you say or do is found offensive by the majority, yet it is something you strongly believe in?
Freedom of speech MUST apply to the most offensive speech, or it does not exist at all.
BTW, if you think outlawing symbols or ideas will stop them from spreading, go talk to the Catholic church about reformation and Protestantism.
I think some of you forget history in your idealism. The ban on Nazi icons and the illegality of denying the holocaust in germany were imposed by the western allies AFTER the war. I would not sleep well at night if there was a Nazi political party in Germany actively promoting the ideas of Hitler. History has a dangerous way of repeating itself. Those ideas, those icons and those acts were henious. They cannot ever be allowed to gain a foothold again. They have NO redeming values, no value to german society. I'm comfortable with those provisions, that the US had a hand in writing into the german constitution.
Most of the current Nazism in Germany springs from the eastern half that was occupied under the soviets and where no active policies were put in place to wipe out the ideas that nearly destroyed our world. The Western half was guided out of those ideas and because of the past those ideas must NEVER be allowed to gain a foothold again. Europe has been a hotbed of Jewish persecution for a thousand years, it may take a thousand years to wipe those ideas out.
Most of the current Nazism in Germany springs from the eastern half that was occupied under the soviets and where no active policies were put in place to wipe out the ideas that nearly destroyed our world. The Western half was guided out of those ideas and because of the past those ideas must NEVER be allowed to gain a foothold again. Europe has been a hotbed of Jewish persecution for a thousand years, it may take a thousand years to wipe those ideas out.
History is not a sentient being. Men make history, and men choose to repeat history. Just because something happened once does not mean it will happen again. Those beliefs were suppressed after the war because there were millions of REAL Nazis who had to be removed from mainstream society. There are not any real Nazis left unless they are soaking their teeth every night. Civil liberties, especially freedom of speech and assembly, are redeeming values in themselves.
Uhh, what the hell? COMMUNISM was actively enforced in the East. Anyone actively supporting Nazism while the Soviets around probably would have been shot. You can't destroy an idea through suppression. You destroy an idea by proving that it is inferior to competing ideas.
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