Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Germany disclaimer?

[tk149]

From the official Return to Castle Wolfenstein website

Important note for German users - Disclaimer: You are about to enter the Castle Wolfenstein website. The following pages may have content
that is forbidden by law in Germany. Activision Germany GmbH is not responsible for the content of the following pages. By entering this site you approve having read this disclaimer.

This Disclaimer is posted rather prominently at the bottom of the webpage in both English and (I assume) German.

Does anyone know what law this disclaimer is referring to? My first thought was that Germany doesn't like to talk about Nazi history, but then I thought maybe it's anti-violence laws or something. But I've never seen anything like this disclaimer on any other game website I've visited including other Activision Games sites.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: tk149
From the official Return to Castle Wolfenstein website

Important note for German users - Disclaimer: You are about to enter the Castle Wolfenstein website. The following pages may have content
that is forbidden by law in Germany. Activision Germany GmbH is not responsible for the content of the following pages. By entering this site you approve having read this disclaimer.

This Disclaimer is posted rather prominently at the bottom of the webpage in both English and (I assume) German.

Does anyone know what law this disclaimer is referring to? My first thought was that Germany doesn't like to talk about Nazi history, but then I thought maybe it's anti-violence laws or something. But I've never seen anything like this disclaimer on any other game website I've visited including other Activision Games sites.

You were correct at first. The sale of Nazi memorabilia is definitely illegal (see ebay) and I'm pretty sure that the use of Nazi icons is too.

 

[Jzero]

You were correct at first. The sale of Nazi memorabilia is definitely illegal (see ebay) and I'm pretty sure that the use of Nazi icons is too.

Yep. In Germany you can be arrested for displaying the swastika or for immitating the stiff-arm salute, even in jest. It isn't taken lightly.

 

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: tk149
From the official Return to Castle Wolfenstein website

Important note for German users - Disclaimer: You are about to enter the Castle Wolfenstein website. The following pages may have content
that is forbidden by law in Germany. Activision Germany GmbH is not responsible for the content of the following pages. By entering this site you approve having read this disclaimer.

This Disclaimer is posted rather prominently at the bottom of the webpage in both English and (I assume) German.

Does anyone know what law this disclaimer is referring to? My first thought was that Germany doesn't like to talk about Nazi history, but then I thought maybe it's anti-violence laws or something. But I've never seen anything like this disclaimer on any other game website I've visited including other Activision Games sites.

It's the Nazi stuff -- big no-no in Germany these days. I wonder about this too, especially when I see somebody playing Wolfenstein online with [GER] at the end of their name.

 

[Scipionix]

Heh. Sadly enough, of the two power we defeated in 1945, the Germans have done far better at confronting their past. Sheesh, that's scary.

 

[Amused]

Confronting your past is one thing. Outlawing speech and expression is another. In my opinion, it's a bad move on Germany's part. All it has done is create a huge underground skinhead movement there. It hasn't stopped racism at all.

Anyhow, they are right. Anything of or relating to Nazis or nazism is illegal in Germany.

 

[eLiTeGoodGuy]

You are correct with your first guess. Germany is trying its hardest to forget, even deny that the holocaust ever occured.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Confronting your past is one thing. Outlawing speech and expression is another. In my opinion, it's a bad move on Germany's part. All it has done is create a huge underground skinhead movement there. It hasn't stopped racism at all.

That's what I meant. Germans feel guilty about Nazism and so supress any Nazi-related expression. Japanese, on the other hand, either simply ignore 1931-1945 or think they were noble and right.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: tk149
From the official Return to Castle Wolfenstein website

Important note for German users - Disclaimer: You are about to enter the Castle Wolfenstein website. The following pages may have content
that is forbidden by law in Germany. Activision Germany GmbH is not responsible for the content of the following pages. By entering this site you approve having read this disclaimer.

This Disclaimer is posted rather prominently at the bottom of the webpage in both English and (I assume) German.

Does anyone know what law this disclaimer is referring to? My first thought was that Germany doesn't like to talk about Nazi history, but then I thought maybe it's anti-violence laws or something. But I've never seen anything like this disclaimer on any other game website I've visited including other Activision Games sites.

It's the Nazi stuff -- big no-no in Germany these days. I wonder about this too, especially when I see somebody playing Wolfenstein online with [GER] at the end of their name.

In Germany a special version is sold where there are no Nazi symbols whatsoever in the game. Swastikas and stuff are replaced by something else.

ACK! I just guessed the german Wolfenstein site wrong... Won't post the url here cause I don't feel like getting booted.

 

[Lars]

There are also way too many anti violance laws for computer games.

I remember playing Command&Conquer and instead of humans there are robots in the German version. If a tank rolls over them they do not bleed instead they loose oil.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: eLiTeGoodGuy1
You are correct with your first guess. Germany is trying its hardest to forget, even deny that the holocaust ever occured.

Actually, holocaust denial is illegal in Germany too.

 

[Lars]

Originally posted by: eLiTeGoodGuy1
Germany is trying its hardest to forget, even deny that the holocaust ever occured.

Yep, and because we try to forget it we talk about it for the whole 13 years of school.

 

[tk149]

Anyhow, they are right. Anything of or relating to Nazis or nazism is illegal in Germany.

Wow, that is just so <Bleeped> up!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.



:disgust::Q:frown:

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: eLiTeGoodGuy1
You are correct with your first guess. Germany is trying its hardest to forget, even deny that the holocaust ever occured.

NEWS FLASH: You are an ignorant moron!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: tk149

Anyhow, they are right. Anything of or relating to Nazis or nazism is illegal in Germany.

Wow, that is just so <Bleeped> up!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

:disgust::Q:frown:

Is it legal in the US to be a member of Al Qaida and promote the bombing of Americans? No? Why not, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it!

They forbid nazism, they don't forget it. Their wrongdoings are taught at schools, but it doesn't mean they should allow people to use nazi flags and bring the Hitler salute.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: tk149

Anyhow, they are right. Anything of or relating to Nazis or nazism is illegal in Germany.

Wow, that is just so <Bleeped> up!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Germans have learned from history. Just because nazism is illegal there doesn't mean that they are ignoring their past. Far from it. I guess it's difficult for non-germans (me included) to understand how traumatic and shameful it can be to have past similar to Germany's past. They know their past and they are not trying to hide it.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: tk149

Anyhow, they are right. Anything of or relating to Nazis or nazism is illegal in Germany.

Wow, that is just so <Bleeped> up!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

:disgust::Q:frown:

Is it legal in the US to be a member of Al Qaida and promote the bombing of Americans? No? Why not, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it!

They forbid nazism, they don't forget it. Their wrongdoings are taught at schools, but it doesn't mean they should allow people to use nazi flags and bring the Hitler salute.

your analogy makes no sense to me. treason is illegal in just about any country i can think of, and freedom of speech *should* be legal in any country.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Is it legal in the US to be a member of Al Qaida and promote the bombing of Americans? No? Why not, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it!

They forbid nazism, they don't forget it. Their wrongdoings are taught at schools, but it doesn't mean they should allow people to use nazi flags and bring the Hitler salute.

Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Scipionix
Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

Wasn't flag-burning illegal in USA for a long time? Isn't there politicians in USA who are trying to make flag-buring illegal at this very moment? If flag-burning is an issue in USA, why couldn't nazism, alot more serious issue, be an issue in Germany?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Is it legal in the US to be a member of Al Qaida and promote the bombing of Americans? No? Why not, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it!

They forbid nazism, they don't forget it. Their wrongdoings are taught at schools, but it doesn't mean they should allow people to use nazi flags and bring the Hitler salute.

Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

So it's ok to walk around propagating anti-semitism and hate against a few dozen other minorities (which is what nazism stands for), but it wouldn't be ok for a US Al Qaida follower to propagate his ideas?

As long as they don't do anything it's just freedom of speech right? And don't give me crap about that not counting cause of 9/11, cause a shitload more died in '39-'45.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Scipionix
Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

Wasn't flag-burning illegal in USA for a long time? Isn't there politicians in USA who are trying to make flag-buring illegal at this very moment? If flag-burning is an issue in USA, why couldn't nazism, alot more serious issue, be an issue in Germany?

there's a reason why it was made legal.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Scipionix
Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

Wasn't flag-burning illegal in USA for a long time? Isn't there politicians in USA who are trying to make flag-buring illegal at this very moment? If flag-burning is an issue in USA, why couldn't nazism, alot more serious issue, be an issue in Germany?

there's a reason why it was made legal.

And there are alot of right-wing politicians trying to make it illegal. The point is that flag-burning seems to divide americans. Some think it's wrong while other think it's an form of free-speech and therefore it OK. If something like that can cause emotions like that, then why can't nazism? If flag-burning was illegal for a long time, why can't nazism, an alot more serious issue, be illegal in Germany?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Is it legal in the US to be a member of Al Qaida and promote the bombing of Americans? No? Why not, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it!

They forbid nazism, they don't forget it. Their wrongdoings are taught at schools, but it doesn't mean they should allow people to use nazi flags and bring the Hitler salute.

Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

So it's ok to walk around propagating anti-semitism and hate against a few dozen other minorities (which is what nazism stands for), but it wouldn't be ok for a US Al Qaida follower to propagate his ideas?

As long as they don't do anything it's just freedom of speech right? And don't give me crap about that not counting cause of 9/11, cause a shitload more died in '39-'45.

i'm not sure you understand the legal system in america. to plot the destruction of the united states is considered illegal. verbal threats are illegal, as well. however, saying "heil osama", while it may get you on the FBI's sh!tlist, is not illegal per se.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Scipionix
Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

Wasn't flag-burning illegal in USA for a long time? Isn't there politicians in USA who are trying to make flag-buring illegal at this very moment? If flag-burning is an issue in USA, why couldn't nazism, alot more serious issue, be an issue in Germany?

Just because we have people who believe freedom can be protected through oppression (an oxymoron of the highest order) does not make it right. Nor does it excuse the banning of any kind of symbolism or racist/political opinion in Germany.

Freedom is not measured by that which we agree with. It is measured by that which offends us most.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Scipionix
Uh, since when does the use of hand gestures and graphical symbols mean that the person using them is guilty of a crime or that it is imminent that he will commit one? Why shouldn't I be able to goosestep around all day with my arm stuck out yelling "Heil Hiter!" while wearing an SS uniform so long as that's all I do?

Wasn't flag-burning illegal in USA for a long time? Isn't there politicians in USA who are trying to make flag-buring illegal at this very moment? If flag-burning is an issue in USA, why couldn't nazism, alot more serious issue, be an issue in Germany?

there's a reason why it was made legal.

And there are alot of right-wing politicians trying to make it illegal. The point is that flag-burning seems to divide americans. Some think it's wrong while other think it's an form of free-speech and therefore it OK. If something like that can cause emotions like that, then why can't nazism? If flag-burning was illegal for a long time, why can't nazism, an alot more serious issue, be illegal in Germany?

i really don't see your point. so we suffered a lapse of judgement.... this means it's alright for germany to make the same mistake?