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[Retired] The LCD Thread
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I spent the last several days reading over 40 pages of this thread since I am looking for a new LCD to replace a 19" CRT monitor for a HTPC.
This will actually be a temporary replacement until I get a > 50 " LCD TV for the HTPC.
Here are my choices:
1. DS-263N -- looks like a really nice monitor. This will probably eventually replace my main PC with a 21" Diamondtron CRT.
2. Soyo Topaz S 24" -- specifically the refurbished MVA if they are still out there ~$200. It just needs to last 3-6 months.
3. Dell 2408WFP/Viewsonic VX2435/Samsung 245T -- reasonably rated, provides analog inputs for a better HTPC setup.
I also have a Gateway FPD2485W that I use with my main PC. The analog inputs (Tivo & VCR) are starting to be flakey. Fortunately, I have extended warranty so I can probably replace this unit with a FHD2400. If I ignore the analog inputs, which one is a better monitor? Does MVA vs TN panels make a difference in this case?
This will actually be a temporary replacement until I get a > 50 " LCD TV for the HTPC.
Here are my choices:
1. DS-263N -- looks like a really nice monitor. This will probably eventually replace my main PC with a 21" Diamondtron CRT.
2. Soyo Topaz S 24" -- specifically the refurbished MVA if they are still out there ~$200. It just needs to last 3-6 months.
3. Dell 2408WFP/Viewsonic VX2435/Samsung 245T -- reasonably rated, provides analog inputs for a better HTPC setup.
I also have a Gateway FPD2485W that I use with my main PC. The analog inputs (Tivo & VCR) are starting to be flakey. Fortunately, I have extended warranty so I can probably replace this unit with a FHD2400. If I ignore the analog inputs, which one is a better monitor? Does MVA vs TN panels make a difference in this case?
Woofmeister
Golden Member
hiya, finally bit the bullet and placed an order with newegg for the doublesight 25.5, but upon check out, they removed the monitor and wrote, "Item# N82E16824185007 is removed from shopping cart due to quantity limitation/insufficient stock. Some combo items might be affected by this."
Grrrrr. It still says in stock on the monitor's page.
Oh well.
Grrrrr. It still says in stock on the monitor's page.
Oh well.
Butterbean
Banned
I've always just used a soft cloth and purified water after an air blast (regular water leaves more stains)
Well so I asked Amazon to send me a replacement BenQ, and the replacement bleeds so bad, It can't even get dark. It's light gray at best..
I guess I'll just keep the original, don't think my luck will change. There's no dead pixels, so it's ok. Most of the time in windows, don't even notice.. only when watching movies with the top/bottom bars.
I guess I'll just keep the original, don't think my luck will change. There's no dead pixels, so it's ok. Most of the time in windows, don't even notice.. only when watching movies with the top/bottom bars.
LittleNemoNES
Diamond Member
what do you guys think of these results using: X-Rite i1 Display 2 + Spectraview. I chose D65, SRGB gamma, and 140cd/m2
From the very little I know, these don't look too impressive...
Edited out pic
From the very little I know, these don't look too impressive...
Edited out pic
The BenQ is bigger, and also some people might find the glossy coating more annoying. The BenQ will be better with standard apps because of standard gamut, but likewise the LG will make existing material look more vibrant.
The ViewSonic VX2435wm could be a great choice for you if you desire inputs. Additionally, it's a little cheaper than the DS-263N and brighter/a tad more suited to multimedia. I would avoid the FHD2400 personally in favor of the VX2435 unless the VX really isn't an option financially.
Sorry, I haven't really heard much, other than a few people saying they hated the *HM series. They are TNs, and that's generally not too flattering particularly at 25.5". Not necessarily bad, but not the best deal out there either. The G2400W seems a far better option just due to its reputation and good scaling options.
The NEC LCD2690 SV here is an easy choice; the 275T's VA panel will cause gray shifting in images. Additionally, the 275T's controls make it difficult to calibrate. (I'm assuming the 275T+ is extremely similar to the 275T. The 275T+ definitely still has a VA panel.)
You could get away with the DoubleSight DS-263N and a standard colorimeter, certainly, as well, if you're looking to save some money. But the 2690 SV w/ hardware calibration is a great option for any photographer. If you use the Adobe RGB space, get the 2690. If you use mainly sRGB, get the standard gamut NEC LCD2490 SV. The size difference isn't that noticeable (I say this having seen a 24" side to side w/ 25.5" and the gamut difference is huge for editing.)
Rubbing alcohol works pretty well on my NEC 20WMGX2, but I cannot guarantee that is safe for your glossy panel.
Not sure what to suggest; glossy panels are indeed hard to clean. Even with alcohol mine still has some stains now and then.
{~.8 dE94}
That's about what mine come out to be. I'm not sure why the calibration is typically a little higher than some others that approach 0.40 dE94 or so, but I believe it's because Max Contrast is selected, instead of Best Grayscale (in the global preferences for the SpectraView app). Max Contrast is by FAR the best option for most people. Any distinction of dE94<2 generally isn't noticeable by the human eye anyway, and certainly not <1. Without max contrast your black level rises a lot and you lose almost half your contrast.
Also, I found that using more calibration patches/swatches is not that useful since the monitor drifts over time, and by the time it goes through all the color patches the color will have changed enough to render them useless. I'm not sure why the SV app doesn't attempt to stabilize the monitor better; not the best software I've seen but it still does a good job of calibration with 16 or 32 patches. I would enable 'average low-light measurements' as well to increase accuracy in that spectrum.
zod96
Platinum Member
Ok after using the LG for a day 🙂 I have this to report. This panel has no backlight bleed that I can see, its perfect on the windows splash screen very black. Text is very sharp and colors look awesome. Had to turn down the brightness to about 60, everything else I left at default. Whites look white no blue tinge at all, unlike the samsung 2232 which had alot. I played a round of BF2, and it was smooth as silk, no input lag at all, no ghosting nothing. I am very very happy with this LG. The only thing is the screen attracts dust like crazy. The bezel is very nice looking too, the on screen menu was very easy to use. This one is a keeper 🙂
Dear XTKnight,
I can't thank you enough--I've learned a great deal from your postings in this thread. Unfortunately, I don't game, do video or work with color except for casual use when surfing the web. I am a fulltime writer and I frequently typeset pages. For instance, for the next six months, I'm doing the next edition of a 900-page book in black and white using InDesign. I'm also a Mac person.
While I don't have the problems that impact people who use color in their jobs, I don't have the pleasant distraction of color, either. And since I'm mostly staring at black text on a white screen for 12 hours a day, visual comfort is a must--which scares me a bit about the 24" iMac as it is glossy and pretty bright--although this might not be the problem others suggest.
I also don't know if the highly desired IPS screens are best for my application--which unfortunately favors the best text rendering possible as opposed to movie-watching, gaming, and photo editing.
I currently use a 21" Samsung 214T, and want to move up to a 24" or more inch monitor. Possibilities include:
-24" iMac
-DoubleSight 263N
-Dell 2408
-23" Apple Cinema Display (would wait until after WWDC, just in case...)
--I'm willing to consider anything else, although I'd rather not go much higher than $700, unless I get the iMac.
To make matters worse, we live in the middle of nowhere, so I can't do the kind of eyes-on comparison shopping that I would if I lived in an urban area.
Any suggestions you have would be much appreciated!
Paul
I can't thank you enough--I've learned a great deal from your postings in this thread. Unfortunately, I don't game, do video or work with color except for casual use when surfing the web. I am a fulltime writer and I frequently typeset pages. For instance, for the next six months, I'm doing the next edition of a 900-page book in black and white using InDesign. I'm also a Mac person.
While I don't have the problems that impact people who use color in their jobs, I don't have the pleasant distraction of color, either. And since I'm mostly staring at black text on a white screen for 12 hours a day, visual comfort is a must--which scares me a bit about the 24" iMac as it is glossy and pretty bright--although this might not be the problem others suggest.
I also don't know if the highly desired IPS screens are best for my application--which unfortunately favors the best text rendering possible as opposed to movie-watching, gaming, and photo editing.
I currently use a 21" Samsung 214T, and want to move up to a 24" or more inch monitor. Possibilities include:
-24" iMac
-DoubleSight 263N
-Dell 2408
-23" Apple Cinema Display (would wait until after WWDC, just in case...)
--I'm willing to consider anything else, although I'd rather not go much higher than $700, unless I get the iMac.
To make matters worse, we live in the middle of nowhere, so I can't do the kind of eyes-on comparison shopping that I would if I lived in an urban area.
Any suggestions you have would be much appreciated!
Paul
LittleNemoNES
Diamond Member
for text, I'd get the biggest screen I could afford.
:Q I hope you have a bottle of eye drop fluid next to your water bottle!
I wouldn't really recommend a glossy panel. They tend to be harder on the eyes.
I've found VA panels to be most comfortable, perhaps due to their high contrast. The ViewSonic VX2435wm was a pleasure to use for text editing. If you find your current screen comfortable I'd stick with that panel type (VA). I'd recommend that over the Dell 2408; I find the white on wide gamut displays to be a little "off" compared to what I'm used to, personally. The LCD2690's looks a little green and that's just a little distracting. IPS panels are more prone to surface defects like spots on darker colors (from rubbing process), lines, or screen door effect.
None of those displays you mentioned are really on display (no pun intended) anywhere that I know of. (Although Apple may have the Apple displays.) Most of us urban folks are in a bad position as well when it comes to higher-end displays.
zod96
Platinum Member
How is this product? http://www.staples.com/office/..._Supplies_10051_SEARCH
The DS-263N seems like a great value, however I really wish it had some of the processing features of the BenQ's I've seen. Oh, and 120hz wouldn't hurt either.
I like the features the BenQ's have, but I won't buy a TN panel. Is there any models out or out in the near future that are IPS + 120hz ?
I like the features the BenQ's have, but I won't buy a TN panel. Is there any models out or out in the near future that are IPS + 120hz ?
Rocketlucco
Junior Member
I read the thread and it was very informative, however I find myself overwhelmed by the amount of choices I have. My older 22 inch Sceptre monitor just broke and I want a replacement. My budget range is 250-350 dollars. I mostly game and do schoolwork on the monitor. Since school work is fine on any monitor, I guess my primary use is gaming. I should state however that I not notice any input lag in my games on my older 22inch or my 17inch Samsung, both of which had was 5ms response time.
I am trying to decide whether I should try and find a cheaper 24 inch or just go with a good 22 inch. Since there seem to be so many good choices according to the first post, especially for the 22inch, I was wondering if there was one that ended up getting recommended the most throughout the thread? Is there one that ended up reigning supreme?
As of now the two I am looking at are:
LG L227WT and the HPW2207
If anyone could comment on the differences (input lag and how the colors look) I would see between these two and which would be better for what I want that would be awesome.
Thanks a lot
I am trying to decide whether I should try and find a cheaper 24 inch or just go with a good 22 inch. Since there seem to be so many good choices according to the first post, especially for the 22inch, I was wondering if there was one that ended up getting recommended the most throughout the thread? Is there one that ended up reigning supreme?
As of now the two I am looking at are:
LG L227WT and the HPW2207
If anyone could comment on the differences (input lag and how the colors look) I would see between these two and which would be better for what I want that would be awesome.
Thanks a lot
Thanks, Gersson and xtnight. You've got me thinking about why I'm no longer happy with my Samsung 214T, which a lot of people liked and for good reason. I think it's because the compressed size of the type (1600 x 1200 in a 21" monitor) and how the overall pages are significantly smaller in native mode. But if I magnify it, I sacrifice clarity.
Also, these aren't the eyes of a 30-year-old anymore that are staring at the darned text on the screen for hours on end. So while the VX2435 that you mention is wider (1920 vs. 1600), it's not any taller (1200 in approximately 12.8 inches of vertical screen for both the VX2435 and my 214T). While I'd be able to fit a full two-page spread on the Viewsonic with room to spare, I suspect the type won't be much bigger.
Regarding Gersson's comment: "for text, I'd get the biggest screen I could afford", I've always worried that this would result in text that is more jagged, what with the larger pixel size. But maybe that's not correct, and I'm honestly willing to try anything, because my eyes are starting to seriously revolt (I already have reading glasses).
So if you have any suggestions, I'm very willing to look at anything. Maybe there's a 25" to 27" display that I should consider (the Viewsonic VX2835 is the same price as the VX2435, but doesn't get the finest of reviews).
Also, these aren't the eyes of a 30-year-old anymore that are staring at the darned text on the screen for hours on end. So while the VX2435 that you mention is wider (1920 vs. 1600), it's not any taller (1200 in approximately 12.8 inches of vertical screen for both the VX2435 and my 214T). While I'd be able to fit a full two-page spread on the Viewsonic with room to spare, I suspect the type won't be much bigger.
Regarding Gersson's comment: "for text, I'd get the biggest screen I could afford", I've always worried that this would result in text that is more jagged, what with the larger pixel size. But maybe that's not correct, and I'm honestly willing to try anything, because my eyes are starting to seriously revolt (I already have reading glasses).
So if you have any suggestions, I'm very willing to look at anything. Maybe there's a 25" to 27" display that I should consider (the Viewsonic VX2835 is the same price as the VX2435, but doesn't get the finest of reviews).
Just received my DS-263N from Newegg. Works flawlessly. No dead pixels or other defects. Very happy with this monitor, the hype was true.
For those worried about wide gamut, it isn't a problem at all, there are RGB color channel gain controls and a saturation control in addition to Brightness/contrast/gamma. It shouldn't be a problem to calibrate this monitor for graphics work even if you don't have an expensive calibrator.
With the screen polarizer, the viewing angles are close to perfect. Maybe I didn't look hard enough yet, but I did not see any tell-tale IPS tinting around the sides, or any glow. It may even be better than the Apple Cinema Displays from a couple of years ago.
I haven't had the chance to test any games with it yet, but the 1080p Quicktime HD samples I tried displayed perfectly without any ghosting. Looking at some LCD calibration images, there was no banding, but for the darkest grey shades and blacks it still didn't beat my cheap CRT. I haven't fully calibrated it yet or used a profile for it so it might be possible to improve it a little. The results so far were after a few minutes of fiddling with it, all I really had to do was turn the saturation and contrast down to get a natural-looking image.
So those of you wondering about this monitor, the new batch that arrived this month doesn't seem to have any of the defects of the early models, and it does come with the polarizer. This is the best deal on an IPS monitor you are going to get anywhere right now, don't settle for *VA panels if you want a monitor for graphics work! And don't overpay for an Apple, NEC, or Planar!
For those worried about wide gamut, it isn't a problem at all, there are RGB color channel gain controls and a saturation control in addition to Brightness/contrast/gamma. It shouldn't be a problem to calibrate this monitor for graphics work even if you don't have an expensive calibrator.
With the screen polarizer, the viewing angles are close to perfect. Maybe I didn't look hard enough yet, but I did not see any tell-tale IPS tinting around the sides, or any glow. It may even be better than the Apple Cinema Displays from a couple of years ago.
I haven't had the chance to test any games with it yet, but the 1080p Quicktime HD samples I tried displayed perfectly without any ghosting. Looking at some LCD calibration images, there was no banding, but for the darkest grey shades and blacks it still didn't beat my cheap CRT. I haven't fully calibrated it yet or used a profile for it so it might be possible to improve it a little. The results so far were after a few minutes of fiddling with it, all I really had to do was turn the saturation and contrast down to get a natural-looking image.
So those of you wondering about this monitor, the new batch that arrived this month doesn't seem to have any of the defects of the early models, and it does come with the polarizer. This is the best deal on an IPS monitor you are going to get anywhere right now, don't settle for *VA panels if you want a monitor for graphics work! And don't overpay for an Apple, NEC, or Planar!
TempletonPeck
Member
The LG L227WT is the #1 recommended gaming monitor in this thread and for good reason.
The input lag is non-existent on it and the response time is great.
The colours are good, very vibrant. It doesn't require too much calibration and there are a few good colour profiles available that work if you can't get it to where you want it yourself.
I can't say much to the HP, but for gaming I think the LG has it beat.
LittleNemoNES
Diamond Member
well, Xtknight and myself are on the 2690 and I can say I don't notice or see any screen door effects. (I get the impression Xt' feels the same).
Try the doubleight...
BTW a 30" monitor has pretty nice dot pitch. (2560 1600)
Try the doubleight...
BTW a 30" monitor has pretty nice dot pitch. (2560 1600)
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