Originally posted by: xtknight
Thanks for the clarification. Even if vodka is available, I probably can't afford it!A wider gamut is like having a bigger palette with the same amount of colors.
e.g., with a wide gamut monitor you can paint (example, not actual nums)
[red 92%, green 92%, blue 92%]
but with a lesser gamut one, you can only do
[red 72%, green 72%, blue 72%]
When you combine colors that are more pure (92>72) you can reproduce colors farther out there. With the same bit-depth however (8-bit), the wide gamut monitor can reproduce different colors, but not more colors. The 256 shades will be spread out over a wider area with the wider gamut monitor.
Put it this way: you are in charge of a party and you can select 4 drinks. Are you going to choose Diet Coke, Coke, Pepsi, and Diet Pepsi? Or, Coffee, Mountain Dew, Coke, and Vitamin Water? You get a wide range of tastes with the latter, yet you cater to more specific tastes with the former. But they are all the same quality drinks. And they all contain varying amounts of caffeine or different proteins (R/G/B components). But if you want vodka you have to go for the LED backlighting solution.
I'm waffling on calibration ...
Was the SV in stock at Buy.com earlier today?? It's not in stock now.
I just checked Newegg and they have the SV, but it's very expensive -- $1,949.99 before the $50 rebate. I found it at Super Warehouse for $1409.99 (after two rebates), but they don't have a good rating at resellerratings.com. (I don't need any more aggravation in my life!)
So I have to decide whether to just go with the non-SV model and buy it by tomorrow (to get the rebate) or wait and try to find the SV model at a good price (from a reliable vendor). My new computer will be here next week, so I'd really like to get the new monitor pretty soon.
I do have one other option -- I can drag my old 20" Nanao up from the basement. I retired it because it starting having problems with convergence, I think it's called. But it would be good enough to use for loading software and transferring files to the new computer, which is going to take me at least a week. That would give me a little extra time to hunt down the NECs, although I would lose that $50 rebate.
Originally posted by: Mallomar
Thanks for the clarification. Even if vodka is available, I probably can't afford it!Originally posted by: xtknight
A wider gamut is like having a bigger palette with the same amount of colors.
e.g., with a wide gamut monitor you can paint (example, not actual nums)
[red 92%, green 92%, blue 92%]
but with a lesser gamut one, you can only do
[red 72%, green 72%, blue 72%]
When you combine colors that are more pure (92>72) you can reproduce colors farther out there. With the same bit-depth however (8-bit), the wide gamut monitor can reproduce different colors, but not more colors. The 256 shades will be spread out over a wider area with the wider gamut monitor.
Put it this way: you are in charge of a party and you can select 4 drinks. Are you going to choose Diet Coke, Coke, Pepsi, and Diet Pepsi? Or, Coffee, Mountain Dew, Coke, and Vitamin Water? You get a wide range of tastes with the latter, yet you cater to more specific tastes with the former. But they are all the same quality drinks. And they all contain varying amounts of caffeine or different proteins (R/G/B components). But if you want vodka you have to go for the LED backlighting solution.
I'm waffling on calibration ...
Was the SV in stock at Buy.com earlier today?? It's not in stock now.
I just checked Newegg and they have the SV, but it's very expensive -- $1,949.99 before the $50 rebate. I found it at Super Warehouse for $1409.99 (after two rebates), but they don't have a good rating at resellerratings.com. (I don't need any more aggravation in my life!)
So I have to decide whether to just go with the non-SV model and buy it by tomorrow (to get the rebate) or wait and try to find the SV model at a good price (from a reliable vendor). My new computer will be here next week, so I'd really like to get the new monitor pretty soon.
I do have one other option -- I can drag my old 20" Nanao up from the basement. I retired it because it starting having problems with convergence, I think it's called. But it would be good enough to use for loading software and transferring files to the new computer, which is going to take me at least a week. That would give me a little extra time to hunt down the NECs, although I would lose that $50 rebate.
No worries. I don't think the SV was in stock earlier either. My eyes must have glossed over it.
I think it's worth waiting for a good deal on the SV, no matter how hard it is. It'll be worth it. I have little doubt that Newegg will have it in stock and cheaper soon.
Sheesh.
I've been trying to see ANYTHING other than a TN panel locally and CANNOT FIND ANY!!! Today I went to a CompUsa, fully expecting to see at least ONE of the recommended higher end monitors (non-TN) but no luck. I really didn't want to order a monitor online without seeing at least it's equivalent in person!
But I did take a good look at the 226BW and the 206BW and both were very impressive. I tried to imagine the picture looking BETTER but couldn't. Man, those better panels must really look awesome then!!
I might just give up and buy the Sammy but Newegg keeps lowering the price of the NEC 20WMGX2, so now I'm really getting messed up in the head!! Can anyone help me see the difference between a TN panel and an S-IPS or PVA panel? Some of the people responding here are downright snobbish when it comes to any TN panel . . . help me see what you see!
My use will be primarily gaming followed closely by net browsing/general home use. I doubt I'd ever use the multimedia aspect of the NEC but I don't mind paying $130 more if the panel really is that much better.
Is there anything else I can hang my hat on? Longevity issues? Probability for more or less dead pixels? Peeling paint and sqweaks? (yeah, I know I'm grasping at straws here!)
Sheesh!
I've been trying to see ANYTHING other than a TN panel locally and CANNOT FIND ANY!!! Today I went to a CompUsa, fully expecting to see at least ONE of the recommended higher end monitors (non-TN) but no luck. I really didn't want to order a monitor online without seeing at least it's equivalent in person!
But I did take a good look at the 226BW and the 206BW and both were very impressive. I tried to imagine the picture looking BETTER but couldn't. Man, those better panels must really look awesome then!!
I might just give up and buy the Sammy but Newegg keeps lowering the price of the NEC 20WMGX2, so now I'm really getting messed up in the head!! Can anyone help me see the difference between a TN panel and an S-IPS or PVA panel? Some of the people responding here are downright snobbish when it comes to any TN panel . . . help me see what you see!
My use will be primarily gaming followed closely by net browsing/general home use. I doubt I'd ever use the multimedia aspect of the NEC but I don't mind paying $130 more if the panel really is that much better.
Is there anything else I can hang my hat on? Longevity issues? Probability for more or less dead pixels? Peeling paint and sqweaks? (yeah, I know I'm grasping at straws here!)
Sheesh!
xtknight, let me be another of the hundreds who have probably thanked you from the bottoms of their hearts for this thread. You clarify so many issues that go into one of the most important parts of a 'puter.
I bought a 20WMGX2 from Best Buy 6 months ago and I have loved every minute I've spent with it! I went with it based on your review and the fact that it was an IPS panel. I needed an all-around good panel for movies, web browsing, and games. Especially games.
Fast FPS games have never looked better. It's almost CRT speed with the gorgous colors of an LCD with glossy coating. It's BEAUTIFUL!
So thank you very much! I'm ordering another one for my sister since the price is so low now (see below).
If you want a NEC 20WMGX2, there is one in your price range. Newegg.com has open box versions for $359 which is really $259 with the $100 mail-in rebate. You have two weeks to buy it, though, since the rebate ends November 3.
xtknight, you might want to make a note about this rebate next to the price for the 20WMGX2 on the first page for those who don't read these comments. 25% off is pretty nice.
I use that monitor about 10 hours a day because of work and play, and I have had zero persistence problems after 6 months of everyday use. I turn it off when I'm not using it, though. And brightness is only at 25% but, believe me, this monitor is SO bright that 25% is equal to other monitor's max.
Not sure what you mean by "terrible". It's possible you are seeing "sparkle" from overdrives. Or if you meant you are seeing the large macroblocks of low quality Divx encodes that you never saw before, this is a compliment to the quality of your new monitor. Take your own advise and download movies with h.264 encoding, especially if they are HDTV, Bluray or HDDVD rips.
What do you mean they delisted it? It's still on their website. I'm thinking about getting one for my second 'puter. I know it's not as good as the 20WMGX2 but, then again, it won't be the monitor I use all the time. It would be more for watching movies and I want to test the blanking technology for games.
All three posts, same answer. =) I would suggest the NEC 20WMGX2. I have one and I love it!
The fact that you ask this question makes me think you've never seen these panels side by side. Try that. You'll notice how great the IPS panel is. Buy the NEC 20WMGX2. You know you want to!
I bought a 20WMGX2 from Best Buy 6 months ago and I have loved every minute I've spent with it! I went with it based on your review and the fact that it was an IPS panel. I needed an all-around good panel for movies, web browsing, and games. Especially games.
Fast FPS games have never looked better. It's almost CRT speed with the gorgous colors of an LCD with glossy coating. It's BEAUTIFUL!
So thank you very much! I'm ordering another one for my sister since the price is so low now (see below).
Originally posted by: Pithlit
I am looking for a new monitor now and it seems to be the best place for a advice
I mainly will use it for gaming, movies and normal use, so 20"+, probably widescreen. I have 8800GTS 320MB if it makes any difference.
If you want a NEC 20WMGX2, there is one in your price range. Newegg.com has open box versions for $359 which is really $259 with the $100 mail-in rebate. You have two weeks to buy it, though, since the rebate ends November 3.
xtknight, you might want to make a note about this rebate next to the price for the 20WMGX2 on the first page for those who don't read these comments. 25% off is pretty nice.
I use that monitor about 10 hours a day because of work and play, and I have had zero persistence problems after 6 months of everyday use. I turn it off when I'm not using it, though. And brightness is only at 25% but, believe me, this monitor is SO bright that 25% is equal to other monitor's max.
Not sure what you mean by "terrible". It's possible you are seeing "sparkle" from overdrives. Or if you meant you are seeing the large macroblocks of low quality Divx encodes that you never saw before, this is a compliment to the quality of your new monitor. Take your own advise and download movies with h.264 encoding, especially if they are HDTV, Bluray or HDDVD rips.
What do you mean they delisted it? It's still on their website. I'm thinking about getting one for my second 'puter. I know it's not as good as the 20WMGX2 but, then again, it won't be the monitor I use all the time. It would be more for watching movies and I want to test the blanking technology for games.
All three posts, same answer. =) I would suggest the NEC 20WMGX2. I have one and I love it!
The fact that you ask this question makes me think you've never seen these panels side by side. Try that. You'll notice how great the IPS panel is. Buy the NEC 20WMGX2. You know you want to!
The fact that you ask this question makes me think you've never seen these panels side by side. Try that. You'll notice how great the IPS panel is. Buy the NEC 20WMGX2. You know you want to!
That fact that you said that makes me think you didn't catch the main point of my thread . . . . THERE ARE NONE HERE TO SEE!! Bestbuy does NOT SELL the 20WMGX2 at this time.
But your enthusiasm is definitely encouraging. Also, there was no mention of a rebate on the open box models and I never thought to ask . . . are you CERTAIN you can get the $100 rebate on the open box NEC 20WMGX2 ? I assumed you could not. I guess I'll have to wait until Monday to call them and find out.
You're not alone. My local Best Buy, Circuit City has like 10 17" TN panels, a few 19" widescreens/etc. Maybe one VA panel if you're really lucky. Clearly the apex of the LCD market today. :roll: If you're lucky some of them are hooked up with cutting edge DVI connections rather than analog split by 10.
Yet you see huge plasmas and everything else under the sun for big TVs.When I took a trip down to Raleigh, North Carolina though I came across a Best Buy that had many bigger S-PVA panels on display and a huge mall that had a Dell 24" display. Only time I've seen a 24" monitor in my life as a matter of fact since my local stores simply refuse to show them on display.
Well anyways this is exactly why I made this thread.
Yes I believe the NEC is $130 better easily just because of the glossy coating and the fact it shows midtones so well. Response time on it is great too. And so is uniformity. Plus the viewing angle doesn't change every time you move your head... doesn't annoy some people but it drives me crazy now even for text work on anything bigger than 19".
And you don't get swarming pixels in dark tones due to dithering. Just true colors.
Only problem I really have w/ it is burn-in but it's not major. Most of the time it's not even an issue whatsoever but yea I do have a bit of rather permanent burn-in at the top of my screen still.
The NEC is a really good screen for desktop and multimedia alike. It still has a CCFL 72% backlight, yes, but it makes maximum use of it by giving you consistent viewing angles, great uniformity, low backlight bleed, and great response time. You will certainly not see smearing on this display when you watch videos. Gaming isn't perfect on any display, though. The NEC tends to jitter or leave sharper trails a little more than blur because of its overdrive. Still among the best though.
Glad to hear. I'm still thrilled with my NEC too. The visual quality is so captivating I regularly check Quicktime HD Gallery just to get more goosebumps. Film only looks mediocre but when you have a real DV stream from a high-res HD camera that's when things start looking insanely awesome.
True, will do. Also only $360 now vs. $400.
Well occasionally you will see remnants of a previous window if you have a solid background appear all of a sudden. That is about the extent of the problem. Short of a nearly imperceptible horizontal line of it at the top of my screen. Sure you see it if you look at it, but it's not a big deal at all. It's like a damper line on a Trinitron CRT, or slight backlight bleed on any LCD at the top. I have never heard of anyone else having this problem so it could just be my unit.
This was also true for me. It only started happening about a year into use but even nowadays it's not bad. I don't use it as much as I used to though now that school has started.
Whoops, meant "Newegg delisted it".
A good TN panel is good enough. To see the difference with IPS or VA panel, you have to be able to compare. If you are only looking at TN panels, that's the best you can see.
The main differences are in viewing angles and 8-bit vs 6-bit color. People who complain that their TN monitor is defective because the top of the screen is darker? That's the vertical viewing angle limitation.
Here is a nice Test Page for LCD monitors.
Compare results on this page for TN on the one hand, and VA/IPS on the other. You will have no trouble seeing the differences.
The difficulty is finding a store setup which allows to go online, to the above address, with various monitors.
The main differences are in viewing angles and 8-bit vs 6-bit color. People who complain that their TN monitor is defective because the top of the screen is darker? That's the vertical viewing angle limitation.
Here is a nice Test Page for LCD monitors.
Compare results on this page for TN on the one hand, and VA/IPS on the other. You will have no trouble seeing the differences.
The difficulty is finding a store setup which allows to go online, to the above address, with various monitors.
My apologies, Upgr8er. I misunderstood you. I hope you are able to find a comparison somewhere. Try reading reviews from Behardware.com maybe?
As to your other question, yes, I have the rebate form right here. It applies to several NEC models, including the 20WMGX2. As long as you have a UPC code from the box and the sales reciept, you're golden. I read the fine print and didn't see anything about open box or refurbished models. The rebate form is at newegg.com. Look on the page for the monitors it applies to like the 20WMGX2.
Interesting, someone commented on Newegg that the 20WMGX2 has a semi-gloss coating (anti-glare + glossy). Not sure what to make of this, but maybe there is something to it since it doesn't reflect nearly as much as my laptop (or, so it seems).
Interesting point, xtknight. I have nothing to compare it to with mine. Sure, it has a glossy screen but now that you point it out, it's not overtly glossy with lots of reflections.
Maybe it's just because I know how to control light sources aimed at it.
I was checking out your gaming LCD list and I noticed that the page for the LG L1960TR has 16.2 million colors listed but you put 16.7m in this thread. Mistake or did LG change their specs?
Btw, why is the Flatron with less colors more expensive? Do you know the other differences between those two?
Maybe it's just because I know how to control light sources aimed at it.
I was checking out your gaming LCD list and I noticed that the page for the LG L1960TR has 16.2 million colors listed but you put 16.7m in this thread. Mistake or did LG change their specs?
Btw, why is the Flatron with less colors more expensive? Do you know the other differences between those two?
I think I might just do that -- wait and see if I can find a deal on the Lcd2690wuxibksv. In the meantime, I'll use the Nanao when I'm loading the new computer, and when I actually put the new computer into service I'll use it with the Mitsubishi.
My husband will not be happy about moving the CRTs up and down flights of stairs -- they each weigh about 100 pounds. He'll have to wear his man-girdle so he doesn't throw his back out.
Not that I've seen. But there is a review of the 932GW: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...19inch-8_25.html#sect0
Yeah I just replaced the L1952TX with the L1960TR. As I said a few posts back I'll have to go through and verify some of the color depth things. Regardless, when it comes to the TNs I can only guess. Since LG specifies it as as 16.2m I probably will too.
The L1960TR has a better response time and the L1970HR has better color, I believe. I am going to have to take a look at the X-Bit Review for the L1970HR again.
Please Confirm or Correct the following:
(1)
How much does the response time vary between panels for the Samsung 226BW?
I think I read in the guide that the C panel performs the worst.
(2)
After calibration of an A or C panel, do you essentially have a "genuine" S panel?
(1)
How much does the response time vary between panels for the Samsung 226BW?
I think I read in the guide that the C panel performs the worst.
(2)
After calibration of an A or C panel, do you essentially have a "genuine" S panel?
Some answers in This article from behardware.com
The above article is about S panel vs A panel
And This other article from digitalversus has comments about the less desirable C panel
I don't think that's a good idea, since many of the discontinued models are still widely available especially outside the US, and it would be a shame for people from Europe for example to miss these recommended models if they are removed just because they are discontinued (or unavailable at newegg or some American stores).
Originally posted by: Mallomar
I think I might just do that -- wait and see if I can find a deal on the Lcd2690wuxibksv. In the meantime, I'll use the Nanao when I'm loading the new computer, and when I actually put the new computer into service I'll use it with the Mitsubishi.
My husband will not be happy about moving the CRTs up and down flights of stairs -- they each weigh about 100 pounds. He'll have to wear his man-girdle so he doesn't throw his back out.
Yes, carrying CRTs is a real pain in the rear (no pun intended) because all the weight is in the glass in the front.
Thanks for letting me know. I have added them with a "limited availability" note.
Also color depth of L1952TX and L1960TR fixed to 16.2M (6-bit+FRC). That's how it's listed on the specs so that's all I can assume. The L1970HR is listed as 16.7M so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume 6-bit+Hi-FRC but all I can confirm is that these are 6-bit panels.
The C panel performs slightly worse than the other panels in response time but I still think it is decent. Can't confirm it either way, nobody's measured it yet so I can only go off subjective reviews. Most people were happy with their C panels...
In terms of colors, basically yes as far as I know, at least based on subjective reviews. There may be slight contrast differences (900:1 vs 700:1), the S having the upper hand there.
From the advice of this thread and some other resources I bought a Samsung 206BW a few days ago. I'm very satisfied with the image quality, size, response time, no dead pixels, etc. I've had one issue though and I'm not sure if it's from the monitor or my video card (ATI X700 Mobility).
When I have the monitor hooked up via VGA everything is perfect. However when using DVI the screen "blanks" for about a second somewhat frequently during games. This hardly occurs at all during regular Windows use. I've enabled reduced DVI frequency but it still occurs.
I have a hard time noticing the different between DVI and VGA so it's not a big deal for me I'm just more concerned if something is actually wrong with the monitor or not.
When I have the monitor hooked up via VGA everything is perfect. However when using DVI the screen "blanks" for about a second somewhat frequently during games. This hardly occurs at all during regular Windows use. I've enabled reduced DVI frequency but it still occurs.
I have a hard time noticing the different between DVI and VGA so it's not a big deal for me I'm just more concerned if something is actually wrong with the monitor or not.
Got another PC you can connect to for a test? I'm betting the DVI on your laptop is the source of the problem.
Well I thought I would finally get around to updating but it turns out my initial success with the new Dell 22" was pre-mature. Yeah it was much better then the last LCD I tested (the bleeding wasn't that big a deal) but it turns out that I still got dizzy after awhile, it just took alot longer (4 hours or so) and it was less pronounced but it was still there. Once it started it would get worse. Playing around with contrast and brightness seemed to help a bit but would not eliminate the problem.
So the hunt continues, I'm trying to find a local store that sells the 20WMGX2 and if I find one I'll take one home for a test.
So the hunt continues, I'm trying to find a local store that sells the 20WMGX2 and if I find one I'll take one home for a test.
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