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[Retired] The LCD Thread
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Thanks very much, xtknight. When one of my HS75P's went dead, I pulled an old Dell 1704FPT out of the closet. Resolution is awful -- 1152X864 -- but the matte anti-glare coating is okay. Not very fuzzy. Guess Dell decided later to lather it on. I'm trying to decide whether to shag another HS75P or bite the bullet, so to speak, and use the occasion to upgrade. You've written a lot about your NEC 20WMGX2. I know it's subjective, but is it the kind of screen you can stare at all day in a word processor? Part of the key to this on any monitor is the sharpness adjustment. I see the NEC has one (the LP2065 did not, and its anti-glare coating looked inches thick). I see the 20WMGX2 can be arm mounted; know anyone using two side-by-side? The unit is more monitor than I wanted; I don't need or want the extras or the TV. But the praise here has been so glowing, it seems like a screen someone who spends all day looking at letters should consider.
Sorry for the above. There are a few new units around, i.e. http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?item=77883.
Meanwhile, turning to NEC 3/4 20 inchers, I'd really like to get a sense of the screen coatings on the following models:
Nec 2070NX
Nec 2070VX
Nec 2090UXi-SV
Nec 2090UXi
Since none state opticlear in their specs, I'm assuming none are glossy. Near glossy would be okay. Anyone with any experience with these screens.
Meanwhile, turning to NEC 3/4 20 inchers, I'd really like to get a sense of the screen coatings on the following models:
Nec 2070NX
Nec 2070VX
Nec 2090UXi-SV
Nec 2090UXi
Since none state opticlear in their specs, I'm assuming none are glossy. Near glossy would be okay. Anyone with any experience with these screens.
I read the op & the recommendations, but most of them are way outside my budget.
What do you recommend for something that fits these specs:
- Wide screen
- 20-22"
- $200-300 price range (willing to go a bit over $300 if it will get me a substantially better display)
- Used for (in order of importance):
--o 1. RAW photo developing/processing in Lightroom (primarily for the web)
--o 2. Movies & TV Shows (multiple people watching)
--o 2. Occasional competitive online gaming (FPS & RTS)
--o 3. Music production & DJing in Live
--o 4. Everything else (mostly web browsing & plain text editing)
Thank you!
What do you recommend for something that fits these specs:
- Wide screen
- 20-22"
- $200-300 price range (willing to go a bit over $300 if it will get me a substantially better display)
- Used for (in order of importance):
--o 1. RAW photo developing/processing in Lightroom (primarily for the web)
--o 2. Movies & TV Shows (multiple people watching)
--o 2. Occasional competitive online gaming (FPS & RTS)
--o 3. Music production & DJing in Live
--o 4. Everything else (mostly web browsing & plain text editing)
Thank you!
honolululu
Member
Just want to thank everyone for a great thread.
Loving my Costco purchase of a Samsung 245BW for $399. What an upgrade from my trusty Viewsonic vx922!
http://www.costco.com/Browse/P...tial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1
Just wanted to announce they have just dropped the price to $379 and they have a coupon good for the first week of August for $50 off, but the coupon states the regular price as $419 so I'm not sure what's what.
I asked them today after I saw the lowered price and they said they would pricematch their own reduction for up to 30 days with just the original reciept. Woohoo!
Comments about the 245BW, I'm loving the picture, even though it's definitely a TN. No dead pixels. Low backlight, just had to lower the brightness and contrast. Followed the prad.de review recommendations and it looks great in all my games. COH, FEAR, WIC, COD4, Witcher, Mass Effect looking awesome.
Loving my Costco purchase of a Samsung 245BW for $399. What an upgrade from my trusty Viewsonic vx922!
http://www.costco.com/Browse/P...tial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1
Just wanted to announce they have just dropped the price to $379 and they have a coupon good for the first week of August for $50 off, but the coupon states the regular price as $419 so I'm not sure what's what.
I asked them today after I saw the lowered price and they said they would pricematch their own reduction for up to 30 days with just the original reciept. Woohoo!
Comments about the 245BW, I'm loving the picture, even though it's definitely a TN. No dead pixels. Low backlight, just had to lower the brightness and contrast. Followed the prad.de review recommendations and it looks great in all my games. COH, FEAR, WIC, COD4, Witcher, Mass Effect looking awesome.
Just got off the phone with Westinghouse again.
They don't do any service themselves. Instead, they contract through the reseller to arrange the fix. Best Buy has the option to repair, replace, or give store credit. If Westinghouse doesn't repair them, I'm not sure how BB would.
We'll see what happens when I hear back with the procedure.
I posted this in a separate thread but was advised that it might be better to post here.
I've been using a 19" CRT for the past decade or so and finally decided that I needed to replace it. I ended up buying the NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK; it just arrived yesterday and so far I'm pretty pleased with it. However, since I just got it and I have a 15-day window in which I can return it, I've been scrutinizing it for flaws and have discovered a few things. Being new to LCD use I'm not sure what problems are normal and what problems might be cause for RMA, so I'd like to hear any LCD users' views on them.
The monitor is set to factory settings except 0% brightness, and 43.9% contrast. The DVI cable is plugged into the DVI-I port on monitor. I also changed LED color to green and 30% brightness.
Issues:
-The screen appears slightly pincushioned along left side and top. That is, the left side seems to bow slightly inwards at the center-top and center-left of the screen relative to the left and right-top and top and bottom-left. It's not terrible but I wonder if it's normal. If I look at the join between the panel and the plastic frame there appears to be more space between them at the bottom center than at the corners.
-The left side of the screen has a slightly cooler color (bluer) color cast whereas the right side has a slightly warmer (yellower) color cast, which is noticeable when the entire screen is set to a solid color between mid-greys to white. For example, it's noticeable on the anandtech.com screen that I'm typing this post into right now. Turning on ColorComp doesn't change this.
-At a relatively narrow range of solid mid-greys (i.e., entire screen set to solid block of mid-grey) my eyes pick out a slight light fluttering moving up the screen. Here is an animated gif that somewhat conveys what I'm seeing, though in reality it's even fainter than this and is not uniform across the entire screen. At least, it doesn't appear to be uniform: my eyes pick out the fluttering at different parts at different times. Maybe related to refresh rate?
-While making the above animated gif I encountered some strangeness. In Photoshop I created a 1920x1200 file and filled the screen with a repeating pattern of 1px white/1px black horizontal bars. So it looks like a black-and-white interlaced screen pattern. First of all, I have Photoshop maximized but the window for the file isn't, so there is some horizontal and vertical screen space outside of the file window. Now, when I zoom in to 200% the striped pattern extends vertically (not horizontally) beyond the boundaries of the file window. The pattern is very faint, but if I look very closely I can see it below and above the window in Photoshop's application background, which is set to a solid mid-grey. It doesn' extend to the left or right though, only up and down in line with the file window. It's also visible at 600% zoom; I haven't noticed it at other zoom levels.
Even further, when I zoom in to 300% the monitor emits a faint, fast high-frequency chirping/whining tone, and again at 400% although at a slightly different pitch, and at 500% yet again at a slightly different pitch. At 600%, 700% and 800% the tones get even louder, and are different at each zoom level. Then at 1200% there is no noise. If I use the mouse wheel to zoom at odd zoom levels (like 114.23% or something) and go all the way from 100% to 1600% I get a progressively lower range of pitches emitted. I can't hear most of the noises when my head is a normal distance from the monitor, but 600%, 700% and 800% are audible even if my head is several feet from the monitor. 800% is definitely the loudest. Changing the monitor's brightness doesn't lessen the noise, although reducing the contrast does, but only when the contrast is so low as to be unacceptable. My final observation about this is that the greater the contrast between the stripes, the louder the tone. So it's loudest when it's black and white, and gradually fades to nothing when either the white stripes are darkened or the dark stripes lightened (either by changing the colors in Photoshop or adjusting the monitor settings).
I was thinking of maybe calling NEC and asking them; do you think that would be helpful or a waste of time? At any rate, any insight into any of these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I've been using a 19" CRT for the past decade or so and finally decided that I needed to replace it. I ended up buying the NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK; it just arrived yesterday and so far I'm pretty pleased with it. However, since I just got it and I have a 15-day window in which I can return it, I've been scrutinizing it for flaws and have discovered a few things. Being new to LCD use I'm not sure what problems are normal and what problems might be cause for RMA, so I'd like to hear any LCD users' views on them.
The monitor is set to factory settings except 0% brightness, and 43.9% contrast. The DVI cable is plugged into the DVI-I port on monitor. I also changed LED color to green and 30% brightness.
Issues:
-The screen appears slightly pincushioned along left side and top. That is, the left side seems to bow slightly inwards at the center-top and center-left of the screen relative to the left and right-top and top and bottom-left. It's not terrible but I wonder if it's normal. If I look at the join between the panel and the plastic frame there appears to be more space between them at the bottom center than at the corners.
-The left side of the screen has a slightly cooler color (bluer) color cast whereas the right side has a slightly warmer (yellower) color cast, which is noticeable when the entire screen is set to a solid color between mid-greys to white. For example, it's noticeable on the anandtech.com screen that I'm typing this post into right now. Turning on ColorComp doesn't change this.
-At a relatively narrow range of solid mid-greys (i.e., entire screen set to solid block of mid-grey) my eyes pick out a slight light fluttering moving up the screen. Here is an animated gif that somewhat conveys what I'm seeing, though in reality it's even fainter than this and is not uniform across the entire screen. At least, it doesn't appear to be uniform: my eyes pick out the fluttering at different parts at different times. Maybe related to refresh rate?
-While making the above animated gif I encountered some strangeness. In Photoshop I created a 1920x1200 file and filled the screen with a repeating pattern of 1px white/1px black horizontal bars. So it looks like a black-and-white interlaced screen pattern. First of all, I have Photoshop maximized but the window for the file isn't, so there is some horizontal and vertical screen space outside of the file window. Now, when I zoom in to 200% the striped pattern extends vertically (not horizontally) beyond the boundaries of the file window. The pattern is very faint, but if I look very closely I can see it below and above the window in Photoshop's application background, which is set to a solid mid-grey. It doesn' extend to the left or right though, only up and down in line with the file window. It's also visible at 600% zoom; I haven't noticed it at other zoom levels.
Even further, when I zoom in to 300% the monitor emits a faint, fast high-frequency chirping/whining tone, and again at 400% although at a slightly different pitch, and at 500% yet again at a slightly different pitch. At 600%, 700% and 800% the tones get even louder, and are different at each zoom level. Then at 1200% there is no noise. If I use the mouse wheel to zoom at odd zoom levels (like 114.23% or something) and go all the way from 100% to 1600% I get a progressively lower range of pitches emitted. I can't hear most of the noises when my head is a normal distance from the monitor, but 600%, 700% and 800% are audible even if my head is several feet from the monitor. 800% is definitely the loudest. Changing the monitor's brightness doesn't lessen the noise, although reducing the contrast does, but only when the contrast is so low as to be unacceptable. My final observation about this is that the greater the contrast between the stripes, the louder the tone. So it's loudest when it's black and white, and gradually fades to nothing when either the white stripes are darkened or the dark stripes lightened (either by changing the colors in Photoshop or adjusting the monitor settings).
I was thinking of maybe calling NEC and asking them; do you think that would be helpful or a waste of time? At any rate, any insight into any of these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
CORRECTION: Just checked on all the sites that CLAIM to have an NEC 20WMGX2. None of the sites that list stock actually have them; all claim they need to update their pages. I was hoping to side-by-side two GLOSSY monitors. Using the list on P1 on this wonderful thread, I see only the Apple imac20, HPw2007, Samsung Synchmaster 2032GW. Did I miss any? Can't figure out which ones suit. I'm all text driven so a "sharpness" setting is essential. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Unfortunately Westinghouse only plays the part of distributor of this product, as it is specifically manufactured by CMO in China and they ship it to the U.S.
Have they told you the model of what they are shipping to you? I hope it's not the L2610NW, because that thing seems to have its share of issues.
Good luck.
Have they told you the model of what they are shipping to you? I hope it's not the L2610NW, because that thing seems to have its share of issues.
Good luck.
BlackJack3
Junior Member
Heads up
The BenQ G2400WD LCD monitor is on sale at newegg.com for $360 right now. Seems like a steal for a 24" TN LCD with decent color accuracy. Great for gamers or anyone looking for a general use 24 inch display!
Edit: I just ordered mine. My priorities were gaming, price, and amateur/hobby photo editing in that order. I think since the default color settings were good, I couldn't go wrong with this monitor given the price.
Thanks for the recommendation xtknight. :thumbsup:
The BenQ G2400WD LCD monitor is on sale at newegg.com for $360 right now. Seems like a steal for a 24" TN LCD with decent color accuracy. Great for gamers or anyone looking for a general use 24 inch display!
Edit: I just ordered mine. My priorities were gaming, price, and amateur/hobby photo editing in that order. I think since the default color settings were good, I couldn't go wrong with this monitor given the price.
Thanks for the recommendation xtknight. :thumbsup:
To anyone who cares - I called Best Buy today. They don't have any idea what I'm talking about, so they called Westinghouse. Apparently, the 3 people I spoke with at Westinghouse misinformed me and they do not contract their warranty replacement with Best Buy.
Westinghouse is supposed to be calling me... I hope.
Edit: Westinghouse was supposed to fill out a "Best Buy Claim Form." They are now filling it out and I should hear from them in 7 - 10 business days.
Cluster...
Good luck. Hope you end up getting another L2410NM.
The L2610NW was reputed by some HardForum members to have an issue displaying 1920x1200 over HDMI even though Westinghouse includes an HDMI to DVI cable with it. This is the big issue I heard about.
And it's a 26" TN. 26" for a TN is really pushing it IMHO.
The L2610NW was reputed by some HardForum members to have an issue displaying 1920x1200 over HDMI even though Westinghouse includes an HDMI to DVI cable with it. This is the big issue I heard about.
And it's a 26" TN. 26" for a TN is really pushing it IMHO.
I might be beating a dead horse here but as of 7/24/2008 the Doublesight 263N is a deactivated item at newegg.com. Seeing as how it's recommended all over the place on the main article I thought it would be good to mention.
Doublesight 263N product page.
Doublesight 263N product page.
Hi all,
Did HP ever produce an LP2465 that *DID NOT* have the input lag problems people have talked about? LP2465 uses the same panel as the Dell 24" and I don't recall hearing of an input lag fix for the Dell so I'm doubtful. However, I know a few people said they'd sent their LCDs into HP for replacement, but I never heard back if the problem was resolved.
I'd great appreciate any feedback on this, my main monitor died and I need to buy a new one.
Did HP ever produce an LP2465 that *DID NOT* have the input lag problems people have talked about? LP2465 uses the same panel as the Dell 24" and I don't recall hearing of an input lag fix for the Dell so I'm doubtful. However, I know a few people said they'd sent their LCDs into HP for replacement, but I never heard back if the problem was resolved.
I'd great appreciate any feedback on this, my main monitor died and I need to buy a new one.
airhendrix13
Senior member
Hey guys! So I'm in the market for my FIRST LCD monitor and could use some help.
Is 6-bit dithering much worse quality than full 8-bit?
PVA vs. TN quality that big of a difference?
Is 1:1 pixel mapping a feature, or something that can be accomplished on all monitors?
I'm kinda stuck in a tough place here. I will be using the monitor for my PC, watching TV, and watching DVD's / BluRay. I do game a fair bit, but I also do photo editing.
I'm thinking a PVA panel would suit me best, but I'm kinda on a tight budget. I would like to stay under $500.
Is their a PVA panel that has plenty of inputs and falls in my budget? I looked at the Westinghouse L2410NM, but I hear their support sucks, makes a high pitched hissing sound, and lacks DVI. I also looked at the Gateway FHD2400, but it lacks the PVA panel.
ARGH! What should I do?
Thanks!
Is 6-bit dithering much worse quality than full 8-bit?
PVA vs. TN quality that big of a difference?
Is 1:1 pixel mapping a feature, or something that can be accomplished on all monitors?
I'm kinda stuck in a tough place here. I will be using the monitor for my PC, watching TV, and watching DVD's / BluRay. I do game a fair bit, but I also do photo editing.
I'm thinking a PVA panel would suit me best, but I'm kinda on a tight budget. I would like to stay under $500.
Is their a PVA panel that has plenty of inputs and falls in my budget? I looked at the Westinghouse L2410NM, but I hear their support sucks, makes a high pitched hissing sound, and lacks DVI. I also looked at the Gateway FHD2400, but it lacks the PVA panel.
ARGH! What should I do?
Thanks!
Any opinions on the Samsung 22" 2232BW+ vs. the 22" LG L227WT? There's going to be a sale on the Sammy at Best Buy for 280, and I missed the Fry's deal on the LG for 300. I can pick up the LG at auction for much less (after MS live search Cash Back) but I'd kind of like to be able to actually just drive down the street to pick it up (or if worse comes to worst, return it.)
Noticeable difference in performance? I'll be moving on from a Viewsonic 19" CRT, so this would be a big change for me. Focus is mostly on gaming, although I'm also a chronic web surfer and may watch some movies or streaming video on the thing. No graphic arts inclinations here.
Thanks for your time.
Edit: and now Newegg threw this Samsung T220 Rose-Black 22" 2ms GTG Touch of Color series Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 20,000:1 into the mix.
Noticeable difference in performance? I'll be moving on from a Viewsonic 19" CRT, so this would be a big change for me. Focus is mostly on gaming, although I'm also a chronic web surfer and may watch some movies or streaming video on the thing. No graphic arts inclinations here.
Thanks for your time.
Edit: and now Newegg threw this Samsung T220 Rose-Black 22" 2ms GTG Touch of Color series Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 20,000:1 into the mix.
I am quite sure the coating on the Dell 2007FP would drive you nuts. (Or, at least the IPS version I had experience with.)
The LG S-IPS panels very often have tough anti-glare coatings. The LP2065 implements them, a lot of the time. Only the 24" and 25.5"(26") IPS panels are free of hard anti-glare coatings.
After calibration, the 20WMGX2 is a joy to look at. (I guess, even without calibration it is fine at most settings.) I calibrated both my panels to 140 nits. Standard CRT brightness is 100 nits, but LCDs can often go to 400 or even higher.
When the panel is bright, the glossy coating is hard on the eyes. When it's dim and at the proper brightness (Brightness: 29.6; Contrast: 74.0) it's probably the most comfortable thing you'll ever look at.
The clear anti-glare coating on the LCD26 is also very nice. I'm not sure it's quite as comfortable. Sometimes it depends on how bright it is outside (the glare). For darker pictures on a bright day the glossy coating can be an impediment. But for brighter work, it's a very good display.
Unfortunately as you're probably aware you can only find 20WMGX2s in refurb these days. I don't know of anyone with two side-by-side. Actually, I can not find the HS75P or HS95P on sale anymore either. Is there another source from which you could obtain any of these?
I use a sharpness of 8.3% on the 20WMGX2, which I believe is the default, unprocessed value. I wouldn't personally adjust sharpness on any LCD that uses DVI, because it shouldn't need to be adjusted. Good anti-glare and ClearType tuning along with an LCD that does not tamper with the sharpness using algorithms is crucial to a good text display. (With VGA that is different, of course.) Lowering the sharpness (below 8.3%) on the 20WMGX2 is not a pleasant sight, but raising it can improve legibility in some cases.
I use Ubuntu right now which I feel has very good text rendering and it has been most helpful when working with text. XP with a tuned ClearType is good, but I'd say Vista is up there with Ubuntu when it comes to text as well. Maybe you could consider one of the latter OSes. I gathered you weren't really happy with the status quo or do you just want a display that can do what you had with the HS95P?
LCDs vary more than you think even with the DVI connection. I just recently heard of Dell 22" panels that had an oversharpness that could not be quelled.
You can't really expect a photo editing display for $200-300. Nonetheless, the HP LP2065 is as good as you're going to get and it cost just a little over that, after a rebate. It used to be a flat $300 so you may find it cheaper elsewhere. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176053&Tpk=lp2065
Choices are limited and there's no widescreen display that matches those specs as well as the LP2065. The VA/IPS panel in the LP2065 really benefits the 'multiple people watching' part because of the viewing angle.
NECs have had a bit of an issue with this. On mine there is a slight amount of space but not enough to cause a visible pincushion. It might be a sign your panel was not assembled very well.
This is probably something with the IPS panel but I think ColorComp only adjusts for brightness, not gamma differences across the panel. Not much you can do here and quite normal. I don't see that much variation on mine (nothing beyond some possible glare and nothing that really stands out) so maybe you could take a photo of yours.
I didn't see a link to your gif but I don't see any patterns on my panel. I did see one thing when I really messed with the gamma correction but it's probably interference on the DVI cable or something. It's so small and isolated though that it was like "who cares" for me. Maybe your problem is more severe. http://xtknight.50webs.com/lcd26/page4.htm
I don't know if you're noticing burn-in of some type or maybe an optical illusion??
These are electrical devices and I guess maybe you are causing an interference or some type of inversion pattern by doing that. I don't hear anything from my LCD2690, at least when the PC is on, although I can still hear whining from my 20WMGX2 in standby mode when the PC is on.
If you think the pincushion caused by the physical alignment of the panel is bad then I would let them know about that. Otherwise the issues seem very minor and par for the course. Maybe that's just because I go in with low expectations these days no matter how much I spend on a monitor. They just don't seem like they would impact real use that much. That's of course assuming they aren't serious and it's very hard to know that without photos.
Try the DVI-D port and see if anything changes, I guess. It is possible that analog is being sent through DVI-I (but not if you clearly see 'DIGITAL' in the OSD for the DVI-I screen).
Hopefully this gives you a better idea what to expect. I'm sorry if it seems harsh but the rest of us have been swimming in pools of problems like this for years (or worse like bad viewing angle, flickering panels, burn-in, dithering, dead pixels, backlight bleeding, poor response time control) and are just used to it. Especially for consumer monitors. 🙂 Count your blessings and do understand a refurb (which is most likely the monitor with which they would exchange your current) could have worse problems. I'm most disappointed in the NECs' lack of 1080i support, but I love the 90 series LCDs for the most part. Give it some time just through your normal PC routine, but do take some photos and see if the pincushion is a serious problem. If it is then your LCD qualifies as defective and you can probably get a new one and start afresh.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
First off, thanks xknight for your insightful thread and helpful advice. I noted above that you said that the Dell 2408 A01 revision could be a firmware update (and thus it may be possible to upgrade the existing revision to once it is released). In case that does not eliminate the input lag problem, would the input lag on the 2408 be any worse than what I am used to on my current panel or would it actually have less input lag than what I am used to? I currently play FPShooters on a Dell 2001FP
Specifications of a Dell 2001FP
Specifications of a Dell 2001FP
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