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[Retired] The LCD Thread

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Originally posted by: bsongo
i have a gigabyte geforce 8600gt. will that be a problem?
Click to expand...

I doubt it. That's highly likely to work just fine since it's a very new card, but I don't know for sure. If there's problems you can always RMA (the monitor...)

i read the prad review
http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...c-vx2435wm-part16.html

comparing the two monitors
http://prad.de/en/guide/ergebn...der=asc&Submit=compare

i thought s-pva screens were better for photo editing?
anymore recommendations? what about 22"?

i really appreciate the help
Click to expand...

Well in the past few pages I have posted twice a gamma graph that proves the VX has better calibration by default. So in that case the ViewSonic is quite a good amount better. S-PVA monitors are not necessarily any better than CMO's MVA panels, which the ViewSonic is based on. In fact in this case, the MVA is probably better.

I don't have any recommendations for photo editing at 22" at the moment. The upcoming LED ViewSonic 22" is not really suitable unless you're doing print work only (it has such a wide gamut). I'm not sure the status of the Lenovo or Eizo 22" S-PVA panels but either way I haven't seen any reviews on them so I wouldn't be able to tell you if they were any good.

The VX 24" sounds like a very sensible option for you.
 
Originally posted by: asintu
Does it make sense that if you get a 24'' instead of a 27'' you don't have to use that much AA on the 24'' for the games to look about same quality?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen them side by side but I'm not sure the difference is as big as you think it is. If your eyes can still see jaggies, the virtual world will still look jagged. The jaggies will still be smaller but then again so will everything else, so I'm not even sure you'll notice any difference at all. Maybe 4xAA vs 2xAA difference at best... but 24" vs 27" is definitely no substitute for blended AA. It may be different with CRTs that have triad pixel layouts and different methods of illumination, but for LCDs with square pixels it is the unfortunate case that dot pitch does not help much.

Originally posted by: jns
xknight
thanks for your recomandations!
I've now got my NEC LCD2090UXi

but now comes the hard part (it seems) - how to get the best color, to calibrate the monitor? witch settings and so on... (I'll be using it for photoediting)
first the 'easy' basic one - 'native' or 'sRGB' ? (you see I don't got a clue)
Click to expand...

sRGB is probably best with no calibrator. If you have a calibrator then you'd want to use Native and calibrate it to that, most likely, or target 6500K and adjust user settings of white point yourself (R/G/B). Again this requires colorimeter software.

But I've red in a review that the brightness should be set at 41% and contrast to 43% to get a 100nit (don't know what that is, but so I've done)
I didn't really understand the gammacomp that came with the monitor...
is there any good calibrationsprogram to download?

some help please 🙂
thank you very much!
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Nits (candelas per square meter) is a measurement of brightness. It refers to the brightness emitted by x candles in a square meter of area. A typical shadow mask CRT is 80-100 nits at max with aperture-grille types reaching 300 to 500. The best range for photo editing is 80-140 nits to match typical daylight.

When it comes to photo editing settings, there's not much you can do without a colorimeter except adjust brightness and contrast. I suggest picking up a Huey Pro (make sure to get the Pro version, the other version may be less than pleasing!)

Your LCD is not bad by default since it's a pro one, but I still do recommend a Huey Pro if you're doing photo editing. There may still be a significant difference. I know there is with my LCD2690, a huge difference at least after calibration with Eye One Display 2. You might decide to pick up the SpectraView II package from NEC which actually takes advantage of the internal calibration capabilities of your monitor (bundled Eye One Display 2/SpectraView software, SVIIKit). I'm think your model supports this but you'll have to make sure it's one that does have the internal gamma table.

The internal calibration is preferable because it allows greater precision but it is not critically necessary, in my opinion. It is just a shame not to take advantage of the internal LUT chip because that's a big point of the monitor and a big reason it costs so much in the first place.
 
Originally posted by: czajunia
Originally posted by: xtknight
Until a reply you should probably hold off on your decision. I asked here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/fo...m=1196184783;start=all
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Ane news from SimonB. at the tftcentral about Hazro's 24''? I know that he hasn't posted anything on the forum but maybe (I wish) he PMed you. That would be great 🙂.
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Nope I haven't heard back (any measurements) but I will let you know if I do. He is a busy man though so be patient. 🙂 I'm sure he'll post them in the thread if he does decide to.

Originally posted by: TripperJoe
Originally posted by: DoctorM
VX2255WM $260 after rebate at ZipZoomFly: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...jsp?ProductCode=232513
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So Viewsonic seems to be the best all around gaming/multimedia/office 22" for me. How do you compare between their different models?
i.e.

-2255WMB
-2235WM
-2245WM
-2240W

Are they all the same panel? The 55 seems to have an average delay of 15.3ms as opposed to the 35 which has 9.2ms. I don't need fancy addons like speakers or webcams. I just want the best quality video output!
Click to expand...

I don't know the difference between these models, but I just go off reviews as you would. With LCDs, the fact they start with 22 and have a W in them really means nothing when it comes to their similarities (contrary to some other types of products). They are all TNs but other than that I'm not sure of the difference.

The VX2255wmb is probably your best bet. I doubt the others could be that much better. They probably all use the same 22" TN panel anyway. The only difference is, the VX2255 has been tested and proven good, absent of serious input lag issues/etc...

And I wouldn't get hung up on 6 ms input lag differences, that could just be due to different measurement methods even and you wouldn't notice it.
 
Originally posted by: Mallomar
xtknight,

You clarified that the only difference between the NEC LCD2690Wuxi and LCD2690Wuxi-SV is that the latter includes the colorimeter and software. Since nobody has the LCD2690Wuxi-SV in stock, I'm thinking about buying the non-SV model and buying the colorimeter and software separately. Can you please tell me which colorimeter I would need to buy? And is NEC the only source for the software? Does anyone sell the colorimeter and software bundled together? (I checked the NEC site and couldn't find anything but the software being sold directly by them.)

I've been dragging my feet on this WAY too long -- I need to make a decision soon because I think my existing monitor -- old Mitsubishi SpectraView 21" CRT -- is failing. The screen keeps "hiccuping" -- don't know the technical term -- the image will suddenly shrink and then almost immediately pop back into full size. The kind of thing you might expect to see with power fluctuations, but I'm using a good UPS so that should not be an issue.

TIA
Click to expand...

I believe albovin (thanks) answered most of your questions here.

It is difficult to find on the NEC site but it is sold under their accessories section.

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Storefront/ --> Accessories, "SVII-KIT"

SpectraView Kit ? Colorimeter and Software
Combining an ultra-sensitive NEC/GretagMacbeth iOne Display V2 co-branded colorimeter measurement sensor and sophisticated SpectraView II software. This easy-to-use calibration and profiling solution is perfect for color-critical applications such as computer graphics, digital animation, medical imaging, pre-press production and film, video and photo editing studios.

# associated NEC products: LCD2190UXi-BK
# LCD1990SXp
# M46-IT
# LCD4620-BK-IT
# LCD4620-BK-AV
# M40-AVT
# LCD2490WUXi-BK
# LCD4020-BK-IT
# LCD4020-BK-AV
# LCD2090UXi
# M46-AVT
# M40-IT
# LCD1990SXp-BK
# LCD2690WUXi-BK
# LCD2190UXi
# LCD2090UXi-BK
Click to expand...

More details here (including trial version): http://www.necdisplay.com/Supp...Monitors/spectraview2/
 
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
I checked out the Eizo from that thread, and it uses some kind of U-shaped backlight or something, which explains the photos you linked to. That is NOT normal for a VA or any other monitor I've ever seen.

EDIT: OK, it just occured to me that you want a 2490, which you can't get in the UK...and I want a 20WMGX2, which I can't get in the US...hmmm... 🙂
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U-type CCFLs are common in most of today's bigger monitors to facilitate more uniform backlighting. As you may have guessed, they are aligned in a U curve instead of just being straight.

Color shifting is very common in VAs and that Eizo is no different. I think he makes the problems out to be more serious than they are, but they definitely exist on all VA panels.

The pixel alignment image shows the domains of a VA panel. Each of these two pixels has four domains, totalling eight in a Samsung S-PVA panel. With midtones you may see the other domains light up. I'm not sure why the other domains aren't lit on full dark or full white images, but it's interesting nonetheless.

These are the reasons I don't recommend Eizo's VA monitors for photo editing, and probably never will. They are overpriced and they underperform compared to S-IPS panels in most aspects (except black level which isn't crucial for photo editing purposes). In multimedia they have some serious merits (e.g. the good black level) but still are extremely expensive and aren't necessarily better than other VA panels.
 
Color shifting is one thing, but those photos are taken at a dead-on angle and the entire left side of the screen is visibly brighter than the right (like a backlight problem). On the 2 VAs I've had experience with (19" and 21"), you have to actually move beside/above/below the screen and look at it from an angle to see the color shift. Those photos are close to 0-degree angle with no movement, so as far as I can tell, thats not "color shifting", that's a f*d up monitor.

I can't speak for you, but if I got that monitor, I'd definitely return it ASAP instead of tell myself "oh, that's just normal PVA color shifting"...because from what I've seen, its not.

Even on the TNs I've played with, you had to at least move your head to see it...

 
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Color shifting is one thing, but those photos are taken at a dead-on angle and the entire left side of the screen is visibly brighter than the right (like a backlight problem). On the 2 VAs I've had experience with (19" and 21"), you have to actually move beside/above/below the screen and look at it from an angle to see the color shift. Those photos are close to 0-degree angle with no movement, so as far as I can tell, thats not "color shifting", that's a f*d up monitor.
Click to expand...

OK Buck. You have a point here. Maybe this wasn't the best example. I knew that I saw it somewhere else with a slightly better quality picture and I found it. Take a look at this thread. Also while looking for the above mentioned picture I found something on TouTube.

I know that it doesn't make any difference as long as it doesn't bother you too much or doesn't affect your use. And I am really glad that you found the monitor you are happy with. And I am gonna be the next happy one 🙂 Hopefully very soon 🙂

 
I saw that Dell released their new Dell 2408WFP monitor today, and it unfortunately has the same black container as the previous model, and not the brushed aluminum of the 27" and 30" monitors they recently released. Anyone know of any reviews of the monitor or any chance it WONT have the ghosting problems of it's predecessor?

One other quick question, does anyone know if Hazro sells it's monitors anywhere in the US? I saw one place online but it's prices were in English pounds.
 
Originally posted by: TMoney468
One other quick question, does anyone know if Hazro sells it's monitors anywhere in the US? I saw one place online but it's prices were in English pounds.
Click to expand...

I don't believe Hazro has any North American distribution at the moment.

 
I'm looking for recommendations for an LCD monitor. Here are my requirements:
1. Size: 22" to 24"
2. Use: Photo editing (enthusiast, but not pro), audio applications and web browsing (no gaming or DVD viewing)
4. Budget: $700, although less is always better.
5. Must play nice with a Mac Pro
6. I have an Optix XR and EZColor for calibration.
Thanks in advance!
 
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Mallomar
xtknight,

You clarified that the only difference between the NEC LCD2690Wuxi and LCD2690Wuxi-SV is that the latter includes the colorimeter and software. Since nobody has the LCD2690Wuxi-SV in stock, I'm thinking about buying the non-SV model and buying the colorimeter and software separately. Can you please tell me which colorimeter I would need to buy? And is NEC the only source for the software? Does anyone sell the colorimeter and software bundled together? (I checked the NEC site and couldn't find anything but the software being sold directly by them.)
Click to expand...

I believe albovin (thanks) answered most of your questions here.

It is difficult to find on the NEC site but it is sold under their accessories section.

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Storefront/ --> Accessories, "SVII-KIT"
Click to expand...

Oh, now I see it. Before I had only seen the other SV Kit that was only for an LED monitor. I should have looked further. Thanks for the links.

One more question, since I don't know anything about colorimeters or calibration software -- if I buy an SV model of the 2690 (or buy the SV kit from NEC), since it will include the NEC version of the software, doesn't this mean I wouldn't be able to use that software with a different brand of LCD?

If so, would I be able to buy colorimeter software (for a non-NEC LCD) separately, or is it only sold with colorimeters? I checked the Gretag site, but it was unclear -- there was a link for "software downloads" but you have to register and set up an account, so I couldn't find out if there was a separate charge for software if you already have the colorimeter.

I am planning to order the 2690 SV by tomorrow at the latest. Since nobody has it in stock, I guess I'll just order it from the cheapest vendor, sit back, and wait for it. Right now I am using an LG L226WTQ that my husband ran out and bought yesterday when my Mits CRT croaked. The color on the LG is pretty awful (for example, everything that's supposed to be gray looks baby blue) -- I need to install its "forte Manager" and see if I can adjust it. Maybe it's normal for the colors to be out of whack right out of the box?

UPDATE: I've decided to just go ahead and get the 2690 (non-SV) model, so I can have it by next week. I'll deal with the colorimeter issue separately, since it's not absolutely essential that I have it in my hands at the same time that I get the monitor.

One more really important question -- do I need to also buy a cable so I can hook up the monitor to my digital video input? I can't see anything on the NEC site about whether or not the monitor comes with a digital cable, but I'm guessing it doesn't. If not, what type of cable do I need to buy?

TIA,

Mallomar

 
Originally posted by: Trean
Originally posted by: TMoney468
One other quick question, does anyone know if Hazro sells it's monitors anywhere in the US? I saw one place online but it's prices were in English pounds.
Click to expand...

I don't believe Hazro has any North American distribution at the moment.
Click to expand...

They don't. But if you want to get more details about Hazro and their US marketing strategy (whatever it is called 🙂 ) you can try ask at the TFTCentral forum for I know that they are in touch with Hazro and will be reviewing more their monitors in the near future.
 
Just got the VX2255WMB from Staples and I'll be calibrating it and start doing some testing on this. If this one doesn't work out I'll try the Gateway next, but I'm really hoping this turns out to be a better gaming LCD for me (doesn't make me dizzy).
 
Originally posted by: czajunia
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Color shifting is one thing, but those photos are taken at a dead-on angle and the entire left side of the screen is visibly brighter than the right (like a backlight problem). On the 2 VAs I've had experience with (19" and 21"), you have to actually move beside/above/below the screen and look at it from an angle to see the color shift. Those photos are close to 0-degree angle with no movement, so as far as I can tell, thats not "color shifting", that's a f*d up monitor.
Click to expand...

OK Buck. You have a point here. Maybe this wasn't the best example. I knew that I saw it somewhere else with a slightly better quality picture and I found it. Take a look at this thread. Also while looking for the above mentioned picture I found something on TouTube.

I know that it doesn't make any difference as long as it doesn't bother you too much or doesn't affect your use. And I am really glad that you found the monitor you are happy with. And I am gonna be the next happy one 🙂 Hopefully very soon 🙂
Click to expand...

Well...it hasn't arrived, so I don't know if I'm happy with it yet...
 
Originally posted by: chadd
I'm looking for recommendations for an LCD monitor. Here are my requirements:
1. Size: 22" to 24"
2. Use: Photo editing (enthusiast, but not pro), audio applications and web browsing (no gaming or DVD viewing)
4. Budget: $700, although less is always better.
5. Must play nice with a Mac Pro
6. I have an Optix XR and EZColor for calibration.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I should also add that I'd be willing to consider dual 17" monitors as well.
 
I am trying to pick out a new LCD monitor. I tried asking the bit-tech.net forums, I tried using the guides at behardware, prad, tft central, x-bit and of course here.

I currently own a BenQ FP222W and I was pretty happy. Every now and then I saw some washed out colors in usually SVG graphics, or .png like a million shades of blue would lead to that dithering. Sorry if I am using the wrong technical terms. Until one day I was looking at a picture of the planet Saturn. The rings were noisy, with flashing black/purple pixels, there was banding etc. it was terrible. I thought something went wrong with my monitor. I tried a different DVI cable and tried to trouble shoot the problem. Well it was not the cable or video card...it was my monitor. In figuring out just what went wrong I learned pretty much the "truth" and discovered I sure was one un-informed consumer on LCD Monitors.
I am having a terrible time of picking out a monitor now. My biggest complaint with my monitor is the performance with black in anything. Whether I am looking a picture with shadows, or watching a movie like sunshine. It?s just terrible.

I thought the only solution with a new monitor is going non-TN panel, and 8-bit. But everything in that category seems out of my price range or doesn?t sync with what I would use the monitor for. Using the anandtech buyers guide I fall under the multimedia category.

My computer is used for office work, games, and movie watching. But not hardcore movie watching I am not sitting 10ft away from my monitor and expecting the best picture. I sit in front of the monitor so viewing angles won?t be that big of a problem. With gaming I assume I need to be picky with the specifications. I use a high performance mouse, and play games that sometime require a lot of speed?which is any online FPS. I never suffered performance problems with my current monitor in that area, or know of any times in which I would blame in-game death on the ?lag? of my monitor. Whether that?s related to input lag or response time I am not that clear about.

In terms of graphic work I have been just fine I assume, with my monitor. Pictures taken with DSLR's, and digital cameras touch up fine and I get what I want accomplished in photoshop and lightroom. Not sure if it falls under graphic work. But editing digital video has been fine, and I get the same performance with this monitor as I do out of the Apple Cinema Displays on campus.

So where do I go? I think I can only afford TN panel monitors. I don?t mind 19-22? widescreen size range but above that seems too much, especially cost wise. I am still just a student and need to invest in education. The ability to tilt the monitor to portrait mode would be great, and the only accessory I would use would be USB ports. Not S-Video, Component, HDMI etc.

Lastly I believe I might have discovered what I wanted in a monitor, it was a Belinea model. But they don?t seem to be sold anywhere?


 
Hi xtknight,

I have read in various forums that people who order the A4 version seem to be getting the S-IPS panel. I didn't want to take the chance by ordering the A8 (despite being ~$100 cheaper) and finding out it is the A-MVA! If anyone could report owning the LP2065 mfg # EF227A8 that has the S-IPS panel that would be good to know. Maybe I could have saved myself some money!

Regards,
 
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Amart
I got the 19" LG L1960TR in the end. Received and set it up yesterday.

No dead pixels, and so far I'm very satisfied. No ghosting at all, no RTC errors visible in the games I play, fast response time, good movie playback.

The size may seem small by current standards but considering I usually sit right in front of the screen, it's just right. The resolution is also easy on the GPU, so I can get more image quality in games. Dot pitch is good, as I can't see a difference with the 0.24 CRT.

The design of the screen is actually much better then I thought based on the pictures. It's clean and relatively simple.
I am however going to use some semi transparent tape to dim the glowing blue indicator (if I can't find the option in the driver).

I need to configure separate profiles for my games and movies from the nVidia controls, as settings that work well for desktop don't do well in games.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Thanks for the overview. I hardly ever hear much about the 19" gaming LCDs I recommend.

Originally posted by: jgauthier
Thanks xtknight for maintaining this excellent resource! The information is very valuable and helped assist me in purchasing my monitor.

FWIW I am a casual gamer and amateur photographer so it was important to find an lcd that was fast enough for gaming and ideal for photo editing, etc. For the price I was willing to spend and the popularity of the HP LP2065 at sites like DPREVIEW.COM I was very interested in this monitor if I could get it with the S-IPS panel. Well I am happy to report I just recieved my new LP2065 mfg # EF227A4#ABA Rev. GSM002 and it does indeed have the LG.Philips LM201U05 panel! I ordered it from http://www.softchoice.com which is where the company I work for orders alot of its hardware. The good news is that if you call their sales team you can create a personal account without having to be a business, etc. They do stock the EF227A8#ABA version which is a HP Smartbuy but the likelyhood of getting the S-IPS panel is uncertain.

All the best!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forums. Glad I could help.

Are you saying that with the A8 version you have less likelihood of getting an S-IPS?
Click to expand...

Hi xtknight,

I have read in various forums that people who order the A4 version seem to be getting the S-IPS panel. I didn't want to take the chance by ordering the A8 (despite being ~$100 cheaper) and finding out it is the A-MVA! If anyone could report owning the LP2065 mfg # EF227A8 that has the S-IPS panel that would be good to know. Maybe I could have saved myself some money!

Regards,

 
Originally posted by: siik
can i get opinions on the westinghouse LCM-22w3 please in regards to gaming, photo editing, and price.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't have much info on it. I would advise sticking with the 22"s in the OP until reviews of the Westinghouse appear.

Originally posted by: SCCA Racer X
Did I miss the boat, or save myself?

I almost bought an Acer X241WSD for $300 on closeout. But it is a VA panel, and I am holding out for an IPS panel. IMHO, the VA panels are sufficient for business use, but no replacement for a CRT when it comes to pictures and video.

I want a 24" minimum monitor, and I can't find one with an IPS panel for a decent price. The NEC LCD2490WUXi sounds good, but the price is out of the question. Is there any chance of IPS panels reaching a reasonable price point in the near future, or should I just give up and shop for a CRT?
Click to expand...

It is not likely IPS panels will get much cheaper.

FYI, I currently have a 21" Panasonic CRT at home, and I recently bought the $300 Soyo Topaz 24" MVA for work. Everything they say about the Soyo is true. I'm on my second one, the first one's backlight failed after 5 days. Who knows how long this one will last. Maybe I should trade it in for the Acer just to go from 1 to 3 years warranty. On the other hand, I'm feeding it VGA, and the image is as good as any VA panel I've seen. I just can't accept the viewing angle vs. contrast stability of VA panels outside of the office environment. Needless to say, I don't need a recommendation for a TN panel at any price.

So tell me, is 24" or larger IPS coming to the consumer market, like VA did? Will it happen before even I am convinced I'm a Luddite for loving my CRT?
Click to expand...

I think your presuppositions against VA panels are irrational.

Try a ViewSonic VX2435wm and see how it works out for you? If that's not satisfactory then just save up for an IPS. I'm not sure spending $1000 on a 24" is the best idea for most people (you only realize that AFTERWARDS when you end up with dead pixels anyway on it). If you're really an enthusiast and use your monitor for hours a day for various multimedia things it's probably worth it though. If you browse the web and watch a couple YouTube videos a day and one movie a week, I doubt it's worth it. For regular photo editing and semi-critical work (along w/ multimedia purposes), it probably is worth it. Trust me here: I could definitely live with a VA for what I do. Sometimes it's worth it if it means preserving your retirement savings or tuition funds.
 
So I received the new vx2435wm today and shipped the old one back via FedEx before even opening the box.

Once again (even though I requested it) there was no tape sealing the box closed. 🙁 Bad TechonWeb.

So I plug it in, fire it up... and I have the same problem: in HDMI mode the monitor doesn't go into standby when there's no signal, and it doesn't wake from the 'no signal' mode when there is a signal. WTF??

SOooo I figured I'd screw around with it for a few days and see what I can do for it, but guess what: Stuck pixels!!!!

3-5 but it's hard to tell since they are clustered together. 1-2 black and 2-3 white.

I'd do another exchange but return shipping is going to kill me and I'm starting to have my doubts about this monitor in general.
I have to insure it so it's $22 to return each one.

Call me crazy, but a monitor fresh out of a box, not plugged into a PC, and plugged into an outlet should say 'No Signal' and then go into standby... shouldn't it?
I know damn well my first one work right for the first week.
Sigh. Any other 24" panel suggestions?
 
xtknight -

2408WFP? Any good? Think you can identify the panel type?

http://support.dell.com/suppor...s/2408WFP/en/index.htm

Active matrix - TFT LCD
24 inches (24-inch diagonal viewable image size)

Horizontal
518.4 mm (20.4 inches)
Vertical
324 mm (12.7 inches)

Pixel pitch
0.27 mm

Viewing angle
178° (Vertical) typical, 178° (Horizontal) typical

Luminance output
400 cd/m ²(typ)

Contrast ratio
1300:1 (typ)

Faceplate coating
Antiglare with hard-coating 3H

Backlight
7 CCFL U-type system

Response Time
6ms typical (Grey to Grey)

Color Gamut
102% typical

Horizontal scan range
30 kHz to 83 kHz (automatic)

Vertical scan range
56 Hz to 75 Hz

Optimal preset resolution
1920 x 1200 at 60 Hz

Highest preset resolution
1920 x 1200 at 60 Hz


 
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