Retired on SS and confused about amount of COVID return?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,635
6,016
136
As I before stated, there is no fairness within the law. To slightly quote actor John Delancie, "it will be most unfair" to all but the chosen few.

could be worse though, like australia's age pension where if your net worth is above 1$M AUD (not counting your house) then you get phased out of it entirely

though i don't think they have a direct tax for that like SS tax, and i don't think it changes based on how much you earned

when i calculate SS in my retirement planning i usually set it at %75 of the expected amount because who knows what'll happen to it in the 2030s when payouts exceed funding. i expect SS tax to go up to compensate but i wouldn't put some form of rewrite to do means testing past them.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,635
6,016
136
Now, look at the government worker with the non-covered pension. He might have worked 10 or more years under Social Security prior to getting his government job. He also might have worked a side job on weekends or at night to get those 40 quarters of coverage. He also is classed as a lower income worker by the computation when he is not. However, the WEP law treats him differently by saying his work doesn't have the worth to the system that Bambi's or my cousin's work is.

my grandpa got hit by this - took a local government job in the last 1/3 of his low-paying career

he didn't know about WEP until he retired and it ended up wiping out almost all the government pension. he was counting on that money and was so ticked off when he learned about it.

a lot of the problem came from his days living off a small business which wasn't exactly a cash cow. his CPA only cared about minimizing income for tax purposes, and she never gave a thought to the impact on SS.

so many years he filed with almost 0$ income, or very low - certainly less than the %25 cutoff. this made the impact of WEP much bigger than it would've been if she had counted those years.

though honestly most of those earning years were before 1983 when WEP became a thing. this is why i wouldn't be surprised if some new SS rules pass in the 2030s and retroactively screws a decent number of people.

this is why i save over %50 of my income. worst case is i might not get SS at all, though i put the chance of that happening as low.
 

Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,366
1,099
136
could be worse though, like australia's age pension where if your net worth is above 1$M AUD (not counting your house) then you get phased out of it entirely

though i don't think they have a direct tax for that like SS tax, and i don't think it changes based on how much you earned

when i calculate SS in my retirement planning i usually set it at %75 of the expected amount because who knows what'll happen to it in the 2030s when payouts exceed funding. i expect SS tax to go up to compensate but i wouldn't put some form of rewrite to do means testing past them.

What you are doing regarding the 75% assumption is actually a good idea. However, it will probably be worse than that in reality.

What a lot of people don't realize is that the majority of workers (most especially higher income ones, due to the Social Security wage cap) draw out every penny of tax money they ever paid into Social Security in their lifetime within about 6 years of electing to begin benefits. Within 12 years, they've drawn out everything they paid in taxes plus every dollar of payroll tax their employer(s) ever paid. And, this doesn't even consider disability benefits plus benefits to wives, children, or widows (who don't necessarily pay taxes for benefits). Thus, future taxpayers are on the hook for supporting beneficiaries for the rest of their lives after that point. And, once the system starts to go bankrupt, all current Social Security tax revenue will have to go towards paying current benefits, costing Congress all that extra money they waste on their favorite pastimes (you know, useless wars, military waste, etc) which will necessitate huge tax increases.

The system as it was originally designed depended on future beneficiaries paying in to support current beneficiaries. However, there aren't enough futures beneficiaries paying in now to support current beneficiaries. I won't call it a ponzi scheme (it wasn't intended to be one), but it shares certain characteristics with one.

At this point, the only way to save Social Security is to essentially reform it to the point of converting it to a means-tested welfare system (like your example of Australia) which is the equivalent of doing away with it, or to kick the can down the road by letting large numbers of immigrants in to work and support the current system (leaving them holding the bag in the long term).

my grandpa got hit by this - took a local government job in the last 1/3 of his low-paying career

he didn't know about WEP until he retired and it ended up wiping out almost all the government pension. he was counting on that money and was so ticked off when he learned about it.

a lot of the problem came from his days living off a small business which wasn't exactly a cash cow. his CPA only cared about minimizing income for tax purposes, and she never gave a thought to the impact on SS.

so many years he filed with almost 0$ income, or very low - certainly less than the %25 cutoff. this made the impact of WEP much bigger than it would've been if she had counted those years.

though honestly most of those earning years were before 1983 when WEP became a thing. this is why i wouldn't be surprised if some new SS rules pass in the 2030s and retroactively screws a decent number of people.

My mother is affected in the same way. Further, she can't receive widow's benefits from my father due to the associated GPO law (which is far more draconian than the WEP and began back in the early 70's).

You wouldn't believe the number of self-employed people or people with incorporated businesses of decent sizes (most of whom weren't even subject to WEP) I had that exact miserable conversation with over the years. They simply couldn't conceive of the fact that their CPA's goal of minimizing their taxes was diametrically opposed to maximizing Social Security benefits.

I always used to tell people I had contact with to start contacting SSA and getting estimates to begin planning at least 20 years out from retirement. Now, you can run the estimates yourself on SSA's website (which does warn users it can't compute an accurate estimate when you receive a non-covered government pension). In the end, few people paid attention, and even less were paying attention when I retired two years ago...
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
17
81
Stimulus money is completely separate from your IRS refund. In any case, Turbo Tax is trash, so's TaxAct, I've stopped using those 2 a long time ago. My parents are retired and on SS and SSI, I did a procedural tax return for them through an IRS designated website to get them on the IRS records last year, and they've been getting the stimulus checks.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,635
6,016
136
In any case, Turbo Tax is trash

i have used TT for a decade but it didn't handle crypto on the desktop version, so i accidentally double counted some earnings

now i gotta amend it and i'm really considering finding someone to do my taxes this year. or possibly using the online version of TT because it seems like that's the one they care about (it handles crypto correctly)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baked

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
bah. Pump your weekly checks into dogecoin! It's time to get RICH!!!!!
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,175
12,372
136
When you filed your taxes, if you used the Turbotax Interview process (as opposed to just picking your own forms to fill out) there should have been a section of the interview walkthrough asking specifically whether you received the first and second EIP payments and exactly how much you received on each. If you still have access to the Turbotax account you used, you might go walk back through your tax return (I believe you can still view it) and make sure those questions were answered correctly.
Well what do you know. That document does indeed have Notice Number 1444-B on it. My problem is that I understand the English language and this document says Your EIP2 isn't considered taxable income, and you shouldn't report it as income on your 2020 federal income tax return.
I've figured it all out now. Adding in the 141.45 EIP2 deposit (which occurred in Tax year 2021), the TTax 105.06 fee, I come out a buck in change over $1800 dollars that TTax came up with.
Love the IRS communication skills.

The strange saga of the IRS' plague of broken printers - POLITICO
 
Last edited:

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,175
12,372
136
Well, for me all the questions got answered today. Plus a bonus.
I got 2 items in the mail from the IRS. It's exactly what I figured out. I should have listed the EIP2 payment. So they deducted that amount for me.
But, Bonus!!! I got a big $1400 dollar EIP paper check at the same time!!!
Might have some change left after buying a new Lawn Tractor :confused_old: That is combined with the return that prompted my OP.

Must have got some new printers at the IRS.

The strange saga of the IRS' plague of broken printers - POLITICO
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: brianmanahan

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,421
8,826
136
Well what do you know. That document does indeed have Notice Number 1444-B on it. My problem is that I understand the English language and this document says Your EIP2 isn't considered taxable income, and you shouldn't report it as income on your 2020 federal income tax return.
I've figured it all out now. Adding in the 141.45 EIP2 deposit (which occurred in Tax year 2021), the TTax 105.06 fee, I come out a buck in change over $1800 dollars that TTax came up with.
Love the IRS communication skills.

The strange saga of the IRS' plague of broken printers - POLITICO
I use H&R Block tax software. At one point it showed we would get a huge refund. But once it asked if I had received the 1200 stimulus (each), and the $600 stimulus (each) it dropped my refund by $3600.
My take is, if you didn't get the first two stimulus checks, that amount would be added to your 2020 tax refund.
 

Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,366
1,099
136
I use H&R Block tax software. At one point it showed we would get a huge refund. But once it asked if I had received the 1200 stimulus (each), and the $600 stimulus (each) it dropped my refund by $3600.
My take is, if you didn't get the first two stimulus checks, that amount would be added to your 2020 tax refund.

That is exactly the way that it works if the 2020 tax forms are correctly filled out, as that is what I had to do.

I retired in mid 2019, but my 2019 income included excessive overtime and accrued vacation pay which made me ineligible for stimulus despite 2020 income being less than half 2019. I then received the $1,800 in stimulus payments as additional credits on my 2020 tax filing, increasing my refund by $1,800.00.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hal2kilo

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,175
12,372
136
That is exactly the way that it works if the 2020 tax forms are correctly filled out, as that is what I had to do.

I retired in mid 2019, but my 2019 income included excessive overtime and accrued vacation pay which made me ineligible for stimulus despite 2020 income being less than half 2019. I then received the $1,800 in stimulus payments as additional credits on my 2020 tax filing, increasing my refund by $1,800.00.
Very familiar story.