Retired Cops not subject to restrictions on guns?

[Darwin333]

There are well over a million law enforcement and military personnel.

So your point about an individual incident, is pointless.

There are more law abiding civilians with guns. So what was your point again? Lets take both groups as a hole and compare them. BTW, leave the .mil out as they aren't really the subject of the thread nor do they fit into the argument.

 

[Tom]

Our police dept uses civilians to train law enforcement in firearms so I'm not sure about better trained. I'm sure there are some cops who are better trained some civilians. It wasn't put there because of training anyway it was put there so they could get support of police unions who don't want their retired members unarmed.

Anyway I wouldn't worry about law going anywhere. No one is registering or abiding by it in addition to what SC said makes it a non law. I don't know why states waste their money with this.

Training with firearms isn't the difference, its training for dealing with situations.

And I mean on the job training, not just training training.

 

[monovillage]

That's fine by me as well. . . but they should have to buy reduced capacity magazines... because isn't that the point of the bill/law? If law abiding citizens(cops toO!) get rid of all of their standard capacity magazines, then its impossible for the criminals to get their hands on them and we'll see no measurable difference in murders?


Cops in other states(CA) for example can buy weapons for personal use that are banned for normal civilians. . . why? THey're not using it on-duty, they're owning them OUTSIDE of their job. . .

Exactly, the same laws should apply to them that apply to every citizen.

 

[MtnMan]

We(normal people) aren't at war with the police or the military. There's a perfectly valid reason for the exception, training.

That's BS. There are cops that fire their gun once or twice a year, while many "normal people" go to the range monthly or more frequently and are more competent with a gun and more accurate.

The badge or the magic LEO spell that some think makes them special is what they want us to beleive. Cops accidentally shoot themselves and others all the time, or have a ND. Yes cops are trained in laws and procedures, actually firing a gun, often less than many "normal people".

 

[Zebo]

Training with firearms isn't the difference, its training for dealing with situations.

And I mean on the job training, not just training training.

They learn how to abuse law and get away with it. Naw man i'd trust civilians more than any cops. But i'm not an ignorant statist who thinks daddy govt will protect me like you.

 

[Tom]

There are more law abiding civilians with guns. So what was your point again? Lets take both groups as a hole and compare them. BTW, leave the .mil out as they aren't really the subject of the thread nor do they fit into the argument.

the first line of the first post refers to the military. my point is I trust law enforcement and the military with weapons more than I do the civilian population in large part because they are better trained. And I'll add they swear an oath. And that trust I have doesn't evaporate when they retire or are off-duty.

There isn't a good way to discuss statistics about civilians with guns because a subset of civilian gun owners are so paranoid they prevent the government from keeping records.

And another subset of civilian gun owners are criminals who I don't trust with firearms.

 

[Zebo]

That's BS. There are cops that fire their gun once or twice a year, while many "normal people" go to the range monthly or more frequently and are more competent with a gun and more accurate.

The badge or the magic LEO spell that some think makes them special is what they want us to beleive. Cops accidentally shoot themselves and others all the time, or have a ND. Yes cops are trained in laws and procedures, actually firing a gun, often less than many "normal people".

Cops are idiots and i say this having lots of friends who are cops I hunt and fish with.

I don't know if you know about pheasant hunting but basically way it works is a group of guys get in a line about 20 yards apart in a line and trek through like a corn field. You have "blockers" stationed at the end of the field so birds that didnt come up come up.

Anyway the two hunting accidents i've been witness to cops shot people in both not keeping guns above horizon. Not huge accidents its only bird shot but still. Dudes are careless man.

 

[mchammer187]

That's BS. There are cops that fire their gun once or twice a year, while many "normal people" go to the range monthly or more frequently and are more competent with a gun and more accurate.

The badge or the magic LEO spell that some think makes them special is what they want us to beleive. Cops accidentally shoot themselves and others all the time, or have a ND. Yes cops are trained in laws and procedures, actually firing a gun, often less than many "normal people".

The are trained to handle high stress situations. On an average they do have more training even if there are exceptions to the rule because the minimum required training level is going to be higher than that of your average CCW permit holder.

If they average cop has to train 2x per year and the average CCW permit holder is 0x per year than on average I'd say 2x per year. Just because some people love shooting their weapons shouldnt mean anything because you are making the assumption that zero police officers go to the range several times a year. The rates should be statistically similar between two groups and then one that has a higher minimum training requirement will have more training on average.

That said I don't think they should get any special exemptions when it comes to these types of bans.

 

[Tom]

That's BS. There are cops that fire their gun once or twice a year, while many "normal people" go to the range monthly or more frequently and are more competent with a gun and more accurate.

The badge or the magic LEO spell that some think makes them special is what they want us to beleive. Cops accidentally shoot themselves and others all the time, or have a ND. Yes cops are trained in laws and procedures, actually firing a gun, often less than many "normal people".

you completely miss the point about what training is and why law enforcement and the military are respected.

It doesn't come from a firing range.

 

[Tom]

Cops are idiots and i say this having lots of friends who are cops I hunt and fish with.

I don't know if you know about pheasant hunting but basically way it works is a group of guys get in a line about 20 yards apart in a line and trek through like a corn field. You have "blockers" stationed at the end of the field so birds that didnt come up come up.

Anyway the two hunting accidents i've been witness to cops shot people in both not keeping guns above horizon. Not huge accidents its only bird shot but still. Dudes are careless man.

sounds more like your friends are idiots, you hangin' with Cheney ?

 

[monovillage]

you completely miss the point about what training is and why law enforcement and the military are respected.

It doesn't come from a firing range.

Ex-military don't get these special exemptions, only ex-police and it's a form of political pay off.

 

[irishScott]

Alright, I have a simple solution, how about we require civilians receive the same firearm training as police officers?

I know I and many regulars at my range already have superior training just by practicing more often.

 

[monovillage]

Alright, I have a simple solution, how about we require civilians receive the same firearm training as police officers?

I know I and many regulars at my range already have superior training just by practicing more often.

Sounds cool, as long as I get paid to take it.

 

[irishScott]

the first line of the first post refers to the military. my point is I trust law enforcement and the military with weapons more than I do the civilian population in large part because they are better trained. And I'll add they swear an oath. And that trust I have doesn't evaporate when they retire or are off-duty.

There isn't a good way to discuss statistics about civilians with guns because a subset of civilian gun owners are so paranoid they prevent the government from keeping records.

And another subset of civilian gun owners are criminals who I don't trust with firearms.

So after what Cuomo did in New York you're still calling that attitude paranoid?

 

[BoberFett]

Training with firearms isn't the difference, its training for dealing with situations.

And I mean on the job training, not just training training.

You mean on the job training such as marksman practice on random vehicles?

 

[BoberFett]

the first line of the first post refers to the military. my point is I trust law enforcement and the military with weapons more than I do the civilian population in large part because they are better trained. And I'll add they swear an oath. And that trust I have doesn't evaporate when they retire or are off-duty.

That's because you're ignorant. Politicians swear an oath too. How's that working out?

There isn't a good way to discuss statistics about civilians with guns because a subset of civilian gun owners are so paranoid they prevent the government from keeping records.

Sure there is, you're just ignorant and prefer to stay that way. You'd rather go through life with preconceived notions put into your head by the media. Such a good little lapdog.

And another subset of civilian gun owners are criminals who I don't trust with firearms.

Who won't give up their weapons even under a ban, and so they aren't a part of this topic.

 

[Tom]

So after what Cuomo did in New York you're still calling that attitude paranoid?

Yes I consider the idea that an armed insurrection is something we need to prepare for to be paranoid.

I don't really know much about the NY law but I think its probably either ok or unconstitutional, either way its not that important since there's lots of other states.

In general I don't think banning is the way to go, I'd rather just be a bit more careful about regulating the sale and ownership of firearms, in a way that wouldn't drastically change responsible owner's existing rights.

 

[Zebo]

Alright, I have a simple solution, how about we require civilians receive the same firearm training as police officers?

I know I and many regulars at my range already have superior training just by practicing more often.

Trained is actually what regulated meant back in 18th century.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html

 

[BoberFett]

The are trained to handle high stress situations. On an average they do have more training even if there are exceptions to the rule because the minimum required training level is going to be higher than that of your average CCW permit holder.

If they average cop has to train 2x per year and the average CCW permit holder is 0x per year than on average I'd say 2x per year. Just because some people love shooting their weapons shouldnt mean anything because you are making the assumption that zero police officers go to the range several times a year. The rates should be statistically similar between two groups and then one that has a higher minimum training requirement will have more training on average.

That said I don't think they should get any special exemptions when it comes to these types of bans.

Zero times per year? Why would someone who is enough of a firearms enthusiast to get their CCW never fire their weapon? People who like guns fire them frequently. That's why they have them.

Anti-gun-nutjobs don't even make sense. Your arguments are about as solid as wet tissue paper.

 

[BoberFett]

you completely miss the point about what training is and why law enforcement and the military are respected.

It doesn't come from a firing range.

Your mistake is thinking that law enforcement and the military are respected.

 

[Tom]

That's because you're ignorant. Politicians swear an oath too. How's that working out?



Sure there is, you're just ignorant and prefer to stay that way. You'd rather go through life with preconceived notions put into your head by the media. Such a good little lapdog.



Who won't give up their weapons even under a ban, and so they aren't a part of this topic.

Are you talking to me ?

 

[BoberFett]

Are you talking to me ?

No, I'm talking to the deranged animal in your avatar. I'm more likely to get a reasonable response from a poorly drawn dog than I am from you.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I see the point you're making, and think that it's valid that maybe there is a potential for higher risk. But that's not to say people don't hold grudges for people other than cops. Deranged jealous boyfriends or someone who felt slighted by a lack of respec because you looked the wrong way, or even accidentally ended up on the wrong street at the wrong time.

Oh I don't disagree that all people hold grudges. I'm just saying that a career in law enforcement can certainly bear far more ill will towards you than just your average joe.

Also consider that I'm thinking more in terms of small community policing. Not large metropolitan areas. When you are with a rural detachment you tend to get to know everyone and everyone knows you. It's much harder to escape into anonymity unless you choose to live a great distance away from the community you are serving.

It's happened on more than one occasion that I've been out with my wife, or even my family at large (relative) community events and someone feels the need to start lipping off because they ended up actually having to suffer the consequences of their own actions. But it's my fault they did.

 

[Doppel]

Active police aside, has anybody yet given a good reason as to why a RETIRED police officer should have 15 rounds while a regular joe civilian shouldn't? He's really no more a target than a regular civilian. Is it because retired cops are really terrible shots so they need twice the ammo, what is the reason? A retired cop is a similar target to a civilian and shouldn't be given the ability to defend himself more capably.

 

[mchammer187]

Zero times per year? Why would someone who is enough of a firearms enthusiast to get their CCW never fire their weapon? People who like guns fire them frequently. That's why they have them.

Anti-gun-nutjobs don't even make sense. Your arguments are about as solid as wet tissue paper.

So your argument is everyone with their CCW permit is an expert marksman and gun enthusiast. My argument is that is flat out false.

By your logic everyone with a gym membership is a fitness guru.