Rethinking justice -- why hasn't anyone done it?

[Alphathree33]

In our society (Canada/USA/Europe), why haven't we begun to rethink our justice system?

Why is our solution to everything jail time and fines? I submit that if these things really worked as deterrents, then we wouldn't have as many people in jail/on probation/receiving fines as we do.

I don't think it's possible to police the actions of every single person, and I don't think it's possible to set punishments high enough to deter every single crime. When I imagine a "utopia", it is one without crime. Obviously we'll never get there, but we can certainly strive to get closer than we are now, and that doesn't seem to be happening with the current systems.

I'm not proposing that all of us become soft on crime, bleeding heart liberals. As a conservative, I prefer to see hard and fast rules that result in action. But I have to ask myself if there isn't some other, more effective solution.

Perhaps as a society, we should examine the things that cause crime -- stress, need, desire, the thrill, etc. -- and try to manage those factors indirectly to see if it impacts crime rates.

As I read this, I realize that I am coming off as quite the liberal. I'm not suggesting we pay for homes for the homeless and give big welfare cheques to the unemployed and free stress/ethics councilling for executives. I don't think that's the government's business in any way, shape or form.

But surely if the government were to put some smart people together, they might discover cost effective ways to control some of these factors?

 

Originally posted by: Alphathree33
As I read this, I realize that I am coming off as quite the liberal.

Yes, you are. Reforming the justice system laid out thousands of years ago by Hammurabi and making it workable would require hundreds of trillions of dollars, a complete reversal of the human psyche, and the massive layoffs of police officers and law enforcement personnel worldwide, not to mention the hopefully temporary periods of anarchy while the new system is put into place.

Face it: humans respond to punishment and reward. Any other method of law enforcement is nonsensical.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Yeah, social reform is needed, and it's helping; but if you think we can do without the police and some sort of punishment (jailtime), you're very, very delusional.

About as much as Skywalker66 is with chicks.

 

[skace]

Completely reworking it would never fly. But everything can be improved. Unfortunatly, not enough improving is being done.

 

Originally posted by: skace
Completely reworking it would never fly. But everything can be improved. Unfortunatly, not enough improving is being done.

Small steps are being taken, however. Many city police departments (including the ones in my city) have TCOP (Team Community Oriented Policing) programs. Instead of sitting in their cars all day, a combination of foot patrols, bike patrols, substations (so that the officers are spread out and visible in the community, instead of filing their reports only at the station), and officer-business relationships have been implemented. The departments actually encourage and assign their officers to TCOP beats, where they are out in the flesh, visible in their community and communicating with normal citizens and business owners alike.

So far, I think it's improved the public's view of the police on campus and in the city. A cop on a bike or on foot is MUCH more approachable than one in a Crown Vic, and having the substations makes people more comfortable walking around in the community, as there are officers available and present in them during most daytime hours.

As far as big improvements: they should (and probably eventually will) be implemented, but small steps like TCOP are big steps, especially for a profession as resistant to change as law enforcement.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Alphathree33
In our society (Canada/USA/Europe), why haven't we begun to rethink our justice system?

Why is our solution to everything jail time and fines? I submit that if these things really worked as deterrents, then we wouldn't have as many people in jail/on probation/receiving fines as we do.

well since you submit that, do you have any proof? can you show that without the threat of jail and fines, that there would be the same amount of crime?

Perhaps as a society, we should examine the things that cause crime -- stress, need, desire, the thrill, etc. -- and try to manage those factors indirectly to see if it impacts crime rates.

it'd probably be easier and more effective to just improve the raising and education of our nation's youth rather than to try to micromanage those factors