Retailers Push Amazon on Taxes

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bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
8,874
111
106
Amazon would have to collect tax based on the buyer's address / state ... Their affiliates, in most cases, do have a presence in other states and as such, most times, you do end up paying tax on orders through them. Personally I think this is opening a big can of worms.
And while taxpayers are technically required to account for out of state purchases that were not taxed, not many people keep records or report it.
 

MustISO

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,927
12
81
Boo hoo local stores. I shop online to avoid the high prices charged locally. You don't like it, lower your prices.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
The retailer is responsible for collecting sales taxes from the buyer, then passes those on to the state taxing agency. If the retailer doesn't collect those sales taxes, that's their fuck up...and still owe the taxes to the state...Why? Because the law requires them to collect them...it's not voluntary.

ONLY in the state(s) they have a physical presence in.

Up to the buyers to report their online purchases when they file state returns, in the form of a use tax. But yeah good luck having people report such things.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
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frankly many states are in sh*t right now, and as long as businesses are taxed in general, why should some stores get out of it. amazon doesn't sell food to poor people or something where you could justify removing tax, the folks buying electronics and other nonessentials should be able to handle tax. and at this point there is no argument that you need a tax loop hole to protect places like amazon, the convenience factor alone is enough to sustain them.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,315
14,723
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ONLY in the state(s) they have a physical presence in.

Up to the buyers to report their online purchases when they file state returns, in the form of a use tax. But yeah good luck having people report such things.

Follow the thread, Sparky. That bit you quoted was in reference to the hypothetical scenario of a B&M store that didn't collect the appropriate state sales tax...

You're right. MOST people don't file and pay the state use tax like they're supposed to do...which is why the states are pushing to get the on-line e-tailers to start collecting sales taxes on sales in their states.
 

Redfraggle

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2009
2,413
0
0
Jesus Christ, it doesn't get much more Orwellian than that. Wal-Mart makes its profits raping the shit out of main street.

This was pretty much my thought as well. Walmart's motivation to do this is probably more like a temper tantrum ("They don't collect taxes, why do ***I*** have to?! It's not FAIR!! *dramatic stomp off*) than actual concern for anything. If I were any business, I'd drop ties to that organization in a heartbeat.

I've shopped at Walmart because it was cheap and I didn't have a lot of money, and I'm not ashamed to say so. But let's not pretend that Walmart suddenly cares about the little guy I drove by to get to their store.

So somebody found a way to screw you Walmart, way to throw a fit.
 

arkcom

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2003
1,816
0
76
If they start requiring all online businesses to collect sales tax for all states, I'll probably just close up shop. I already have 900+ different tax rates to calculate just for Arkansas.

If Paypal (or any payment gateways) starting calculating tax as a feature I would probably be ok, though.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bu...tailers-push-amazon-on-taxes?mod=bb-budgeting

Wal-Mart, Target and Others Look to Close Loophole for Online Sellers Amid State-Budget Crises

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE: WMT - News), Target Corp. (NYSE: TGT - News) and other large retailers are ratcheting up a political campaign to force Amazon.com Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN - News) to collect sales taxes, sensing opportunity in the budget crises gripping statehouses nationwide.

The big-box stores are backing a coalition called the Alliance for Main Street Fairness, which is leading efforts to change sales-tax laws in more than a dozen states including Texas and California.

Until now, the group has been largely associated with mom-and-pop stores, spotlighting stories of small toy shops and booksellers who argue Internet merchants that aren't legally required to collect sales taxes enjoy an unfair advantage with shoppers.

Yet the Virginia-based group isn't just working for the little guys. Many of America's largest store chains—including Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy Co. (NYSE: BBY - News), Home Depot Inc. (NYSE: HD - News) and Sears Holdings Corp. (NYSE: SHLD - News)—are involved in the campaign, lobbying legislators and increasingly taking public swipes at Amazon.

"The rules today don't allow brick-and-mortar retailers to compete evenly with online retailers, and that needs to be addressed," said Raul Vazquez, Wal-Mart's executive vice president of global e-commerce.

Amazon has feverishly fought efforts to compel it to collect sales taxes. The Seattle-based online retailer says it complies with the law. Under a 1992 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, only merchants who have a physical presence, such as stores, in a state have to collect sales taxes. Amazon currently gathers those taxes in just five states: Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, its home base of Washington, and New York.

But retailers pushed for passage of a new law in Illinois last week that forces Amazon to collect sales taxes if it employs marketing affiliates in the state—a measure similar to a New York law that retailers want to replicate nationally—and their drumbeat may soon spur federal action.

U.S. Sens. Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, and Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, are considering more direct legislation to force online retailers to collect sales taxes, people familiar with the matter said.

Amazon contends store chains are pushing the laws to siphon away its valuable business partners. "These new tax laws affecting affiliates are supported by the large national retailing chains that covet the affiliate advertising programs of their competitors," Paul Misener, Amazon's vice president of public policy, said in a statement. Amazon's affiliates include blogs and other websites that direct shoppers to Amazon's online store, and collect commissions for sales.

Store chains have been complaining for years that online merchants should collect and remit sales taxes.

But retailers are pressing for change with greater vigor this year, given that the recession accelerated a consumer shift to Internet purchases. And with many states facing big budget shortfalls, politicians are eager to increase revenue without raising taxes. Prodding online retailers to collect the money isn't a new levy, proponents argue, since most consumers are already supposed to pay state use taxes on purchases from online-only merchants.

"We're seeing an increased urgency from states trying to make up for lost revenue," said Laura Bishop, Best Buy's senior director of government relations.

The Alliance for Main Street Fairness was formed last spring. Danny Diaz, a member of Washington political-consulting firm FP1 Strategies, who acts as the Alliance's spokesman, declined to disclose whether the majority of its funding came from large retailers.

"It's fair to say that both large and small businesses are active" in the campaign, he said.

Hours after Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn, a Democrat, signed the Internet sales-tax law last week, Amazon cut ties with its roughly 9,000 Illinois affiliates to avoid collection there. Amazon took similar actions in Hawaii, North Carolina and Rhode Island after those states passed legislation similar to the New York law, which Amazon is challenging in court.

Wal-Mart, Sears and other store chains publicly offered to work with the Amazon affiliates. A group representing the affiliates estimates they paid $18 million to Illinois in the form of income taxes, and are likely to see that amount drop by 25% to 30% this year.

Targeting affiliates is just one of the tactics retailers are supporting to pressure Amazon.

In states including Texas and Arkansas, store chains are also backing legislation that seeks to make clear that Amazon must collect sales taxes if it controls in-state warehouses through related companies.

Amazon last month said it would close a Texas distribution center amid a tax dispute with Republican State Comptroller Susan Combs, who contends that Amazon owes $269 million in uncollected sales tax because of the facility's physical presence in the state.

Texas is facing a projected $4.3 billion deficit this fiscal year.

"In Texas we rely heavily on sales taxes, and if we don't protect ourselves from companies creatively structuring themselves to avoid tax collection, we're going to lose a lot of revenue," said the author of the Texas bill, Republican Rep. John Otto.

In California, which faces a $26.6 billion shortfall, only 1% of consumers pay use tax by voluntarily reporting online purchases on tax forms, and $1.1 billion goes uncollected, according to the state's legislative analyst.

"Amazon is choosing to be a bully" by dropping affiliates instead of collecting taxes, said California Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner, a Democrat who is carrying legislation supported by Wal-Mart and other retail chains, similar to what became law in New York and Illinois.

She said her aim is "to help California's revenue... and to create a level playing field for our businesses."

Let's level the playing field by abolishing sales taxes on main street business.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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Let's level the playing field by abolishing sales taxes on main street business.

I find it strange that someone who wants to abolish sales taxes has a quote in their sig to raise taxes on the rich. But yes, ideally we wouldn't even have sales tax like fives states in this country.
 
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Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
If they start requiring all online businesses to collect sales tax for all states, I'll probably just close up shop. I already have 900+ different tax rates to calculate just for Arkansas.

If Paypal (or any payment gateways) starting calculating tax as a feature I would probably be ok, though.

If the laws start requiring businesses to collect taxes for other states I think you'll see payment portals start to offer that as a feature. This is something that's completely within the technology that we have right now.

I'm not sure why people are so upset about this whole issue with taxes for online purchases comes from. You're already required to pay those taxes anyways, but most people don't. I bet the majority of people don't even realize that they're supposed to track that sort of stuff and pay for it.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
With the current economic and political environment, Amazon will likely be forced to collect taxes for the state the warehouse is in, all the states the package ships across and the state the purchaser resides in. Plus a special tax so Pelosi can have her head placed in a Futurama inspired jar for us to view forever...
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Amazon still ends up being cheaper.

i live in NY and have been paying tax on Amazon for a while now and this is 100% true

the only time other places beat amazon is if they are selling something at a loss or having some sort of stupid limited number sale.
 

DaWhim

Lifer
Feb 3, 2003
12,985
1
81
i live in NY and have been paying tax on Amazon for a while now and this is 100% true

the only time other places beat amazon is if they are selling something at a loss or having some sort of stupid limited number sale.

living in ny too, but i work in nj. u know where 100% of my amazon orders ship to ;)
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Here in Michigan like I'm sure is the case in most states you can fess up at tax time to pay all the sales tax you should have paid for online purchases. If you think I'm going to keep some running total going throughout the year from all the e-tailers I use just for the privilege of screwing myself, you're crazy. Unless you can make the case that you don't really owe the tax, it's only right to pay it.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
If the laws start requiring businesses to collect taxes for other states I think you'll see payment portals start to offer that as a feature. This is something that's completely within the technology that we have right now.

I'm not sure why people are so upset about this whole issue with taxes for online purchases comes from. You're already required to pay those taxes anyways, but most people don't. I bet the majority of people don't even realize that they're supposed to track that sort of stuff and pay for it.

If there are laws on the books, then enforce those laws. No need to make up new ones.

Its like texting while driving. Give a ticket for reckless driving if the person is driving recklessly. No need for additional laws otherwise you create systems open to abuse by the public as well as the government.