Resources for 1st time Gun owner

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Nebor

I wouldn't compare an HK or a Sig to a Glock, because they're simply a different class of gun. I've NEVER had a failure to fire or failure to load in a Sig or HK (More than 20,000 rounds through Sigs, almost 1000 through my HK.) Glocks, on the other hand, have nowhere near that level of reliability. So an HK is worth the price premium over a Glock, but not over a Sig, IMO.

That's interesting, because it certainly hasn't been my experience. I have experienced FTFs with a friend's Sig 228, and have found some well-maintained HK USPs have awfully gritty triggers. Glocks are an acquired taste in terms of their aesthetics and trigger operation, but I've never experienced any functional problems at all.

Chuck Taylor's legendary Glock 17 didn't experience its first failure to feed until it had fired 33,000 rounds, after being cleaned only once every 10,000 rounds. It has now fired more than 168,000 rounds and been frozen in a block of ice, buried in manure, and been chained to a buoy in the ocean for months, and still works perfectly. I don't think there has ever been a more reliable weapon made than a Glock.

I own 2 Sig 228s (one entirely blued w/ crimson traced laser grips and one two tone w/ a nickel slide) and neither have ever had a failure to fire or failure to load. Among the shooting community, just about everyone will tell you that for a full size combat pistol, it's still impossible to beat the Sig 226. It's been the standard for 20 years. I've put thousands of rounds through mine.

I've never owned a Glock, but I've shot dozens, and seen plenty of failures to load. In my experience, Glocks are pickier about their ammo than Sigs. One guy even had a FTL with his Glock 17 during a live fire room sweeping session. He had to rack the slide to clear the jam. Afterwards we ribbed him mercilessly that he's lucky that plywood badguy has slow reflexes, or he'd be dead.

When it comes down to it, I would trust my life to a Glock by carrying it every day. I've seen too problems with them. That doesn't mean they're terrible guns, and that no one should buy one though. I have a $1200 Kimber Ultra Compact that I won't carry because it's not perfectly reliable. That doesn't mean it isn't a cool little fun gun to shoot though.

 

[chrisms]

You want a gun just to have a gun? My reason for owning them is stupid, to go out to the woods and blow stuff up, but yours is worse and you might as well spend the least amount as possible because from what you've said it seems like you will never use it. You will pose in the mirror and feel powerful with it in your hand and that is about it.

I do hunt sometimes by the way but I won't lie about what I do with guns most of the time.

 

[mordantmonkey]

gun safety encouragement

 

[kage69]

1911forum.com is a good place to glean info.


But yes, go to a range that rents and try several. Better yet, since you've no prior experience with firearms a beginners class on shooting might be in order. Chances are an oldtimer at the range will walk you through the essentials though, just to get you started.

Consider this another vote for an XD as well, great gun for the money and an excellent first gun. Mine hates Magtech ammo for some reason though. Glocks are also very good, and made in the States now to boot. I've heard lots of good things about CZ guns as well, but have never had the pleasure of shooting any.

Regardless of what you go with, might be a good idea to stick with 9mm. It's mediocre recoil and low cost loads are right up a beginners alley.

Have fun and be safe!

 

[amish]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
gun safety encouragement

why even post this??? somebody actually wants to learn about guns and gun safety not suicide. good job.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I'd recommend a quality .357 magnum revolver. Smith & Wesson is one of my favorites but Taurus also makes a good quality revolver at a lower price than S&W. Ruger also makes fine revolvers.

The great thing about a .357 magnum is that you have a reliable almost foolproof gun chambered in a formidable caliber but for learning and practicing you can shoot cheaper .38 Special rounds through it. I think the revolver is the best choice for a gun n00b. I don't think you'd ever regret buying a .357 magnum revolver, it's a gun you can own for many years and always enjoy shooting even after you've purchased other guns in different calibers.

Just remember, never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot and always treat every gun as if it were loaded.

I have a Colt Python that I don't have fun shooting. I hate revolvers. They're so crude.

what don't you like about it? any chance of selling it?

 

[Kilgor]

Originally posted by: Mr N8
Search, man, there are tons of threads here about it.

I love my CZ 75 Compact, but every time I post that I get flamed. Interesting that tech geeks tell me my gun's a POS and unreliable when it's been 100% reliable and very accurate.

If you really just want to target shoot, I'd recommend you pick up a .22 or 9mm for the most inexpensive ammo possible. If you want the best reliability, then you want a revolver.

I agree CZ's are some good pistols, Tech Geeks don't like because they don't look like Glocks. I've noticed Tech Geeks seem to prefer Glocks. Don't get me wrong I think Glocks are fine pistols, but all the ones I've shot except for the ones that have been tuned up have not been the most accurate. My CZ-75 is one of my best shooters I will say it doesn't like aluminum ammo and I had a couple stovepipes in the first 200 rounds. But after it has broken in I haven't had any troubles.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You should be able to find a local (or close by) gun safety course. You can then go further into defensive gun use classes and so on if you wish (a good idea imo). If you plan on carrying concealed you should arrange a class for that as well. You try local ranges and see if they rent guns. Some do, some don't. A lot of ranges have terrible selection though, so don't limit yourself. Find a gun that fits you well, don't rush the decision. If you want to plink at the range get a .22 or 9mm (cheap ammo). If you want a defensive weapon get a .40 or .45. I don't recommend revolvers for first time owners.

Good advice. I would recommend a safety course to ANYONE considering buying a handgun.

Driving courses are required for getting a driver's licensce, but why aren't gun safety courses required for a first time gun licensce? Something I've always wondered.

 

[amish]

also, many retailers offer safety courses. don's guns gun classes in indy

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Injury
Driving courses are required for getting a driver's licensce, but why aren't gun safety courses required for a first time gun licensce? Something I've always wondered.

Owning guns is a right, driving on public roads is a privilege.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: Injury
Driving courses are required for getting a driver's licensce, but why aren't gun safety courses required for a first time gun licensce? Something I've always wondered.

Owning guns is a right, driving on public roads is a privilege.

Fair enough. But would the gun advocates support something to that effect... again, out of curiosity.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Injury

Fair enough. But would the gun advocates support something to that effect... again, out of curiosity.

The answer is no - diehard Second Amendment advocates oppose any restrictions whatsoever on gun ownership. They would call a law like this an effort by "gun grabbers" to get their foot in the door to enact legislation further restricting gun rights.

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: Injury
Driving courses are required for getting a driver's licensce, but why aren't gun safety courses required for a first time gun licensce? Something I've always wondered.

Owning guns is a right, driving on public roads is a privilege.

Fair enough. But would the gun advocates support something to that effect... again, out of curiosity.

I would not. A liscence would give the government yet another way to track gun owners, it is bad enough that FFL's have to keep form 4473's on hand. Yeah, there are permits required to buy handguns in some states, it is still BS. I am glad that I can go into any gun store in my state now, pay for any rifle or handgun or whatever I see, and walk out with it 5 minutes later without having to go to a county or state authority to ask permission to buy the thing, or wait for a period of time before I can take possesion of it. This is why I prefer to buy guns in face to face transfers, used or whatever, from other people. It is not the government's place to tell you whether or not you can exercise your consitutional rights, let alone delay that right.

A person who excercises their 2nd amendment rights is a citizen, a person who doesnt is a subject.

 

[straightalker]

The key aspect of this thread is the fact jagga has next to no experience actually shooting a gun. Which rules out Glocks, which are an extremely dangerous weapon for a novice because of the safety mechanism being as it is. I'm not crapping on Glocks. I could not care less one way or the other what gun anyone decides they like for themselves. Suit yourself. Glocks just are what they are to a novice. A level above their skill level.

Some advice...

Don't get a compact starting out. Or a snubnose. You'll possibly shoot yourself with it. heehe. I even know of an expert who shot his watch of with one. Stay away from those for awhile.

Do get a .22 pistol with a fairly long barrel and a couple 500 round ammo cartons (costs about .02 cents per shot). You can get decent .22 ammo on sale for even less sometimes. Get whatever gun feels good in your hand and that you think you can aim well with.

Find some hilly terrain out in the country away from houses and do some target shooting on a regular basis. You can get aquainted with guns this way with minimal recoil and noise and cost. After you have some skill, then shop for your personal defense type gun that you want to always have around for protection.

Revolvers are more reliable than semi-autos. But it's not a huge difference. It's worth the risk of a jam in my opinion, to have the EXTRA number of rounds at the ready to fire with, without reloading. Also, reloading a revolver is terribly slow. And even with the six-shot speed loaders, that operation is much slower than popping a clip in/out of a semi-auto

Caliber is not as important as you feeling comfortable carrying your weapon everywhere. Pick the gun you can merge with as your permanent sidearm. Carry it in a shoulder holster under your arm or on your belt in a pouch, etc. A semi-compact 9mm or .40cal might be what you want to match up with your beginner level of skill, after you learn from your .22.

Don't get too big to conceal it and be comfortable with it. If you buy a .44 Ruger Redhawk revolver you can't carry that monster around.

A double action semi-auto with a smooth steady trigger pull is the way to go.

When out and about, keep one in the pipe ready to go. I have a holster with a metal bottom to catch any misfire. The odds of that are slim but they do happen.

About personal defense...

Know what you are going to do in an emergency and tell your family as well.

Me? If my family is seriously threatened and other factors justify it, mainly the wisdom of a safe retreat being blocked, then i'll shoot to kill. Double tap each one. A 9mm is good enough. Or go with the next least expensive bigger caliber. Apparent .45 is the cheapest by far. Since .45 ball ammo is a military round that's mass produced. Also, in time of national disaster, 9mm and .45 are the most common ammo out there, after all ammo leaves the store shelves. Though i like .40cal magnums.

 

[piasabird]

I am not really a gun nut but I use to go to the Gun Range where I worked. I worked at an ammunition plant so I have handled a lot of ammunition and I have shot a few different guns, 9mm, 22 rimfire, 38's. A lot depends on what you want out of the gun.

I personally like to shoot 22's at the gun range. I have shot some 38's and some 9 mm's. I dislike some of the modern Double Action pieces. The seem to move too much when I pull the Trigger. A 38 or a 357 would make a good multi-purpose piece. A single action 45 would also make a nice piece. A lot depends what you are looking for. I like some of the western style six shooters, but a 44 magnum takes a special person to shoot it and be able to handle it. They are heavy and have a real kick and make a lot of noise. They can be kind of fun to shoot, but it takes strong heavy hand to be able to handle it. I shot one one time with a friend, but they are more like a small cannon.

The main reason like I liked the Ruger with the long heavy barrell for balance, was that it was a very accurate gun and was consistent and I have never seen it jam. It does not have much of a kick and it may not have much effect on good body armor.

If you can find a local gun range they may have different guns that they will let you try out. Plus you could talk to some people that may own different guns. Sometimes gun manufacturers have demonstrations of their firearms. Some ranges have competitions also. It can be interesting to see someone take a gun and fire it till the clip is empty in just under 10 seconds and see every round hit the center ring.

 

[foofoo]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I own a Springfield XD. They are a new series, and they are very much like Glock's. You can try them both out at a local store and see which is more comfortable. HK's stuff, as I've been told by direct dealers (nice to see some truth out of them), are pretty overpriced.

With Glock's history, durability, and ease of use, I can't see anything going wrong.

Having recently purchased an HK after a lifetime of owning Sigs, I think I'm in agreement that HKs are overpriced (in comparison to Sigs.) They're just as easy to shoot, accurate, and reliable as a Sig but they're priced much higher.

I wouldn't compare an HK or a Sig to a Glock, because they're simply a different class of gun. I've NEVER had a failure to fire or failure to load in a Sig or HK (More than 20,000 rounds through Sigs, almost 1000 through my HK.) Glocks, on the other hand, have nowhere near that level of reliability. So an HK is worth the price premium over a Glock, but not over a Sig, IMO.

Anyway, back to the OP. For a first gun of any sort, I would recommend a .22 rifle. With a rifle you can learn the basics of shooting and gun safety without the inherent risks of handling a handgun without being properly educated. Take a safety course at your local gun range. A .22 pistol could also be considered. Once you've mastered the .22, you can move on to a more powerful, complicated defensive pistol.

hmmm,
i wouldnt say overpriced, seems like i got what i paid for. the hk usp40 is a great pistol - accurate, reliable, etc. i sold my sig228 after i bought it. i've also owned a glock 19c and i have to say that it was a definite step down in quality, reliability and mostly accuracy. as far as i can tell, sig and hk are priced competatively.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Oh yeah, in addition to my earlier big post, the double action trigger on my $800 HK USP Compact is UTTER GARBAGE. Sig double action pull is much shorter, smoother and better.

That's the problem. You bought the double action LEM trigger when the V1 with Single Action, safety and decocker is available...........I love the V1 trigger on my USP Compact Tactical.......

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Nebor
Oh yeah, in addition to my earlier big post, the double action trigger on my $800 HK USP Compact is UTTER GARBAGE. Sig double action pull is much shorter, smoother and better.

That's the problem. You bought the double action LEM trigger when the V1 with Single Action, safety and decocker is available...........I love the V1 trigger on my USP Compact Tactical.......

Same here. all 4 of my USP's have the variant 1 trigger/decocker, and it is wonderful. Not as good as the trigger on my HK Mk. 23, but still great.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Nebor
Oh yeah, in addition to my earlier big post, the double action trigger on my $800 HK USP Compact is UTTER GARBAGE. Sig double action pull is much shorter, smoother and better.

That's the problem. You bought the double action LEM trigger when the V1 with Single Action, safety and decocker is available...........I love the V1 trigger on my USP Compact Tactical.......

For a first pistol I would buy a Glock.......if you find that you get into it more then you might want to look at H&K's, Sigs, and Custom 1911's like Kimbers........

Some good models:

HK USP (I prefer the tactical flavors and V1 trigger mechanisms)
Beretta 92FS (civilian version, 99.9% identical to standard military M9 issue pistol- if non-high school grads can figure out how to use it I'm sure you can too!)
Kimber
Sig 226, 228 etc
Glocks
Springfield XD (not a favorite of mine but I know alot of people that swear by it)

for caliber I prefer .45.........it's a bigger heavier round so I usually opt for the 230grain+P for a little extra oomph......

 

[SirPorl]

CZ FTW!! I own several CZ pistols and none of them have let me down. In all seriousness you should try and get your hands on as many as you can before you buy. Everyone has different hands and whatnot. CZ, Colt, Beretta, HK, SIG, Glock, Springer....all make excellent products. Find one that fits you best.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: Injury
Driving courses are required for getting a driver's licensce, but why aren't gun safety courses required for a first time gun licensce? Something I've always wondered.

Owning guns is a right, driving on public roads is a privilege.

Fair enough. But would the gun advocates support something to that effect... again, out of curiosity.

I would not. A liscence would give the government yet another way to track gun owners, it is bad enough that FFL's have to keep form 4473's on hand. Yeah, there are permits required to buy handguns in some states, it is still BS. I am glad that I can go into any gun store in my state now, pay for any rifle or handgun or whatever I see, and walk out with it 5 minutes later without having to go to a county or state authority to ask permission to buy the thing, or wait for a period of time before I can take possesion of it. This is why I prefer to buy guns in face to face transfers, used or whatever, from other people. It is not the government's place to tell you whether or not you can exercise your consitutional rights, let alone delay that right.

A person who excercises their 2nd amendment rights is a citizen, a person who doesnt is a subject.

Eep... didn't mean a liscense, I meant just a required safety course for first time owners.

 

[Specop 007]

Sig
CZ
Springfield
Kimber
Kel Tec
HK
Colt
Glock
S&W
Ruger
Taurus
Makarov

Those come to mind right off. Find the one that fits your hand the best.

Personally, I like the 9mm Sigs myself. That P226 is a excellent weapon.