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Resident claims she lost home because firefighters ignored blaze

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Hayabusa Rider said:
Actually my little dialogue represented something which happened to NY homeless person on medicaid that we were trying to get AIDS meds covered. Effectively that was the conversation I had on his behalf. It appears the chance of it happening was 100%. Policy was eventually changed by since this guy is dead it didn't help much.

Next?
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I take your word that this happened and it is very tragic and must be fixed! At least this patient had some insurance coverage that could have helped him.

How about the 45,000 people who die every year because they don't have insurance?

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...s-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

"Nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a new study published online today by the American Journal of Public Health. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002."
 
dca221 said:
I take your word that this happened and it is very tragic and must be fixed! At least this patient had some insurance coverage that could have helped him.

How about the 45,000 people who die every year because they don't have insurance?

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...s-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

"Nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a new study published online today by the American Journal of Public Health. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002."
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I would support a well thought out and implemented solution. The problem with any bureaucracy is that the larger it is the more insulated it becomes from those it serves. That sort of thing comes up in private insurance too, but if coverage exists then I can usually find out what I need. With the government the rule is the law. Good or bad makes no difference. One thing I omitted is that if I were to somehow figure out how to circumvent the problem that I would then have committed a felony. Does that seem right to you? There needs to be an understanding by those with power of what healthcare is and that preventing fraud is important but providing care is too. Punishing good faith efforts can land you in hot water. I'd hate to have a system based on regs rather than medicine. Get something which encourages good treatment and then I'll certainly rethink my position
 
her209 said:
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=13266558


Good ol' compassionate conservatism in Tennessee.
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Must have been union firefighters on their contractually mandated break.

"Cranick pointed out that the fire station is on the edge of town and "we don't go out that way every often." "

There's this guy who comes around to every house (no, it's not Santa Claus) called a "mailman", excuse me "letter carrier" . What the "mailman" does is he takes things from one persons box and puts them in another persons box. You write a check, put it in an envelope addressed to the fire department and the "mailman" takes it there for you. Hard to understand isn't it?
 
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Marlin1975 said:
Has anybody not noticed that they actually looked up the persons info BEFORE deciding to send the fire department?
-snip-
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Yes, I did and that's ridiculous.

And I don't care just how fast somebody thinks they can look it up. I rarely see a database that's 100% correct etc. What if there was an error in the database and someone who did paid had their house burn because they refused to repsond? What they had paid their $75 a few days earlier and it hadn't been input yet?

Also, the article doesn't say how long overdue the bill was. If it hadn't been overdue for long the fire dept may have a problem. Insurance contracts, mortgages etc all give you a period to correct defaults (lack of payment) before you're in trouble.
---------------

Homeowner insurance rates depend on any number of factors. In my case a firehydrant is within a 100 yards of my home, I get a discount on my insurance. A firehouse is within a mile of my home, I get another discount. The fire dept recently had their rating increased, I got another discount.

WTH kind of insurance rates are people without any fire dept assitance at all paying?

IMO pretty stupid arrangement by the county. They should have just contracted for the entire county and passed it along in the R/E tax. The record keeping/bookkeeping under the current arrangement is terribly ineffecient and costly for the city fire dept too.
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Jeebus guys, stop it. This isn't like auto insurance, auto insurance pays for the damage to your property and medical bills for those in the accident. She had homeowners insurance that pays for those things. Fire dept fees don't pay for damages or medical, or anything of that nature.

Nor does this have anything to do with HC.

Fern
 
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JSt0rm said:
I bet the insurance company/bank that actually owns the home will sue that little piss town into the ground.
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Yeah, they may be in trouble. I noted the below:

Even more puzzling to Cranick is why firefighters failed to respond to her home when, according to her, they had helped people in the past who hadn't paid.

"It doesn't make sense," she said. "Two or three years ago this house up here caught fire. My son lives there but they waived the fee."

Cranick said South Fulton firefighters had also previously helped people but sternly reminded them to pay the fee the next day.
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You open yourself up to litigation by treating people differently. I note these people claimed to have always paid the fee in the past. Is being late, particular in these economic times, a reasonable excuse for letting the house burn?

Fern
 
Dekasa said:
Likewise, I definitely think we should have universal fire coverage, but if your city/state/area/whatever has a fee-based system, you have to abide by its rules, same as the firefighters have to abide by their policy and regulations.
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Universal fire coverage? What the hell is that? Whether you pay for fire coverage as part of your water bill (which many folks do), part of your property taxes or part of an annual fee, you still have to pay one way or another. Fire engines, salaries, buildings, etc don't pay for themselves? They didn't pay their tax, so why should they get coverage? Hell, maybe noone should pay their taxes, if it's universal, it's free, right?
 
Things like this have become more and more common (ok, a few times in the past several years) as voters turn down county requests for tax increases to pay for public safety. No one wants to pay more taxes, but the flip side of that coin is reduced services...so counties and fire districts have gone to a "fire service fee" that you pay if you want fire protection for your property.

While it sucks if you're one of the "HELL NO! I won't pay" folks and you have a fire at your place, why should you get the service if you don't pay for it?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051016/news_1h16fire.html (2005)
 
Its the same bull shit the "progressives" try and pull with health care.

Oh, I don't want to pay for something but then I want the services for free.
Oh, I want to live in a flood zone but then not buy flood insurance.

Get over yourself. If you roll the dice and lose, its not anyone else fault except your own for your loss.
 
Patranus said:
Its the same bull shit the "progressives" try and pull with health care.

Oh, I don't want to pay for something but then I want the services for free.
Oh, I want to live in a flood zone but then not buy flood insurance.

Get over yourself. If you roll the dice and lose, its not anyone else fault except your own for your loss.
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So if they were trapped in the house and their neighbors called, should they have been left to burn to death because they didn't pay $75?

The town screwed up two ways, by not putting out the fire and billing after, and not letting the owners pay the fee after (as they had done for others).
 
dainthomas said:
So if they were trapped in the house and their neighbors called, should they have been left to burn to death because they didn't pay $75?

The town screwed up two ways, by not putting out the fire and billing after, and not letting the owners pay the fee after (as they had done for others).
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That may be the kind way to do things, but how do you expect the fire department to operate when everyone realizes that they only have to pay after there is a fire?
 
Patranus said:
Get over yourself. If you roll the dice and lose, its not anyone else fault except your own for your loss.
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I'll bet they were underwater on the home loan. Who loses now? Others who have taken a loan from that bank lost in the form of higher interest rates. That town is fucked.
 
1. I'm guessing the owner has insurance, so the house will be rebuilt anyway.
2. The firefighters had no obligation to save the house. This is similar to choosing only liability insurance on a car you own. You take the responsibility on yourself and save money upfront because of it, but you may lose big.
3. I do see how this could be a public interest thing and should probably be covered by your local town (and billed to you through property taxes). If your neighbor didn't pay for coverage and embers blow across into your yard or onto your home, it could be a nightmare for the firefighters and the municipality in a civil case.
4. If the home owner is available, they should have the option to sign a contract with the fire company that obligates the owner to pay for services rendered. This is going to be expensive I'm sure, so it would probably be cheaper to just let it burn down.
 
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BoberFett said:
That may be the kind way to do things, but how do you expect the fire department to operate when everyone realizes that they only have to pay after there is a fire?
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It's going to be the same with healthcare. Nobody is going to carry insurance until after they get sick and can't provide proof of insurance at the hospital. Then they'll just pay the fine and still not get insurance.
 
dca221 said:
I take your word that this happened and it is very tragic and must be fixed! At least this patient had some insurance coverage that could have helped him.

How about the 45,000 people who die every year because they don't have insurance?

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...s-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

"Nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a new study published online today by the American Journal of Public Health. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002."
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Let's just ignore the fact that no hospital can refuse treatment due to lack of money, m'kay?
 
This make me sick. Absolutely sick. I'm not talking about the situation with the folks house, either. I talking about the shear number of people in this place who support a total nanny state.

I mean, I expect it of Craig and Throckmorton and our friends from the already-government-controlled UK. But the others arguing for it? Holy shit.

How can so many of you people be so irresponsible that you believe the government is the answer to this stuff? It started with social security. Medicare. Medicade. It continued with healthcare. Indigents can get cellphones through government programs. Housing bailouts. Now there are inforced home-heating subsidies and rules about turning that off. Food stamps. WIC. Electricity. Water. Police. Fire. Taxes and fines for not recycling.

It's insane. Yet the same people keep preaching more, more more. We need more. We need to take care of more people. More homeless. More children. Think of the needy! Think of the uneducated! Think of the unemployed! All you people who make ends meet, who go to your job and work hard should be ashamed! You have so much and they have to little. You should feel sorry for them, and you should be embarrased you have so much.

Screw you. Screw the people who think that I should be embarassed for what I have. Screw the people who think that because I have a well paying job that I should support the people who don't. I give 10% of my yearly take home to charities, because that's the right think to do. This year I donated my car as well. But screw you to the people like Throckmoton, Craig, and all the rest who believe they need to make these people my legal responsibility and force me to pay for them.

Much like the country of Greece - there is going to come a time when we can't do it anymore. We're getting closer every day. Government workers comprising a huge percentage of the population. Lifetime benefits and pensions for those workers.

It makes me want to vomit, and to cry for the future of this country. You idiots are destroying it.
 
BoberFett said:
That may be the kind way to do things, but how do you expect the fire department to operate when everyone realizes that they only have to pay after there is a fire?
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I would think the obvious solution is that they pay:

1. All the outstanding $75 bills since they've owned the homes (plus a penalty to cover interest charges etc), or

2. a reasonable amount for the service.

I see no need that they should just $75 (unless they were just late with this yr's payment, plus late fee).

Refusing any service whatsoever, as they did, is just plain stupid on many levels.

This sounds like a very 'small town', I must wonder if there's more to the story (e.g., I hate your husband because he beat me up in the 3rd grade, so your house can just burn down).

Fern
 
Pulsar said:
This make me sick. Absolutely sick. I'm not talking about the situation with the folks house, either. I talking about the shear number of people in this place who support a total nanny state.

I mean, I expect it of Craig and Throckmorton and our friends from the already-government-controlled UK. But the others arguing for it? Holy shit.

How can so many of you people be so irresponsible that you believe the government is the answer to this stuff? It started with social security. Medicare. Medicade. It continued with healthcare. Indigents can get cellphones through government programs. Housing bailouts. Now there are inforced home-heating subsidies and rules about turning that off. Food stamps. WIC. Electricity. Water. Police. Fire. Taxes and fines for not recycling.

It's insane. Yet the same people keep preaching more, more more. We need more. We need to take care of more people. More homeless. More children. Think of the needy! Think of the uneducated! Think of the unemployed! All you people who make ends meet, who go to your job and work hard should be ashamed! You have so much and they have to little. You should feel sorry for them, and you should be embarrased you have so much.

Screw you. Screw the people who think that I should be embarassed for what I have. Screw the people who think that because I have a well paying job that I should support the people who don't. I give 10% of my yearly take home to charities, because that's the right think to do. This year I donated my car as well. But screw you to the people like Throckmoton, Craig, and all the rest who believe they need to make these people my legal responsibility and force me to pay for them.

Much like the country of Greece - there is going to come a time when we can't do it anymore. We're getting closer every day. Government workers comprising a huge percentage of the population. Lifetime benefits and pensions for those workers.

It makes me want to vomit, and to cry for the future of this country. You idiots are destroying it.
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wtf are you talking about? Firefighting is a benefit to society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

How fucking stupid are you?
 
This thread sure has exposed the real pieces of shit we have on this board. Your America, where it's OK for the fire department to let your house burn down and endanger your neighbors. You are the idiots destroying this country, one smoldering home at the time.
 
Actually it is the fault of the dumb ass burning and letting it get out of control in the first place.

No Tickie No Laundry.
 
Gonad the Barbarian said:
This thread sure has exposed the real pieces of shit we have on this board. Your America, where it's OK for the fire department to let your house burn down and endanger your neighbors. You are the idiots destroying this country, one smoldering home at the time.
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And I think that you're ruining America because you don't believe that every American has the innate right to own a 10,000 sqft home complete with indoor swimming pool, stretch Hummer limo, and imported South American servants to do all the house work. Goddamit, I know my rights! Now give me all of that for free, otherwise you're just being un-American!

Reductio ad absurdum? Perhaps. But to paraphrase Churchill, we've established that you believe people should be able to get something for nothing, now we're merely haggling about the details.
 
If the home owner doesn't pay taxes to the city that owns the Fire Department. I don't see how the fire company is actually in the wrong. Sure, it was a dick move on their part to show up and not do anything. But if I don't pay for the service why should I go to them. Almost like going to Apple to fix this POS dell laptop. If they pay taxes to the county, why isn't the county set up for a fire department. Sure it'll raise their taxes, but everyone would be covered, and the kind of situation wouldn't happen.
 
woolfe9999 said:
In time, people will wake up to just how fanatical and extreme these anti-government types are. No basic fire or police protection? Is no roads next?

This is libertarianism in 2010 people. It's spelled a-n-a-r-c-h-y.

- wolf
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You. Are. An. Idiot.

If libertarianism it to blame for the residents of a yokel county choosing not paying for a fire department either by paying the nearby town or setting one up themselves, then your big government murdered tens of thousands of people in Iraq recently. So, want to compare scores?
 
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