Reputable place selling/trading old monitors?

[JudySmith]

Are there any dealers out there who specialize in selling un-used 1980's monitors - the ones that have dial-knob screen adjustment?

Here's why.

I'd been having terrible health reactions (such as stabbing stomach pain, nausea, bone pain, etc.) from both my KDS monitor and the flat-panel Samsung SyncMaster 151s that was recommended here on Anandtech.

Anyway, on a hunch, I decided to experiment and use my spare monitor for awhile, which happens to be an old 1980's CRT - the kind that has dial-knob brightness adjustment.

Unlike the newfangled monitors, the old dial-knobs allow me to adjust my monitor to the point of near-darkness. This suits me as I'm *very* photosensitive, and it could be that was causing my health problems. In fact, even in childhood, flurescents in stores would make me feel ill, headachy & my eyes would tear.

Sure enough, while using this older monitor, my health reactions are history. I flinch at the thought of going back to the Syncmaster - similar to someone facing the prospect of the electric chair. Meanwhile my Syncmaster is just gathering dust, and it's barely used. I bought it in June and used it maybe 5 months.

I suspect that the reason many people nowadays are "so-called" electrosensitive may in fact really be photosensitivity to the INFLEXIBLY-BRIGHT "so-called-improved" monitors.

I am experiencing one nuisance with this monitor, in that print-preview & printouts of web pages are truncated on the right. For example, the VitaminShoppe shopping cart summary had the right-most Total column truncated, so that only the $dollar signs were visible, but not the digits to the right of same.

 

[DaveSimmons]

If you have a nVidia video card, the "advanced" settings for the desktop should bring up the video card settings, and these should include "color correction." If you turn down screen brightness in the video card settings that should combine with a modern monitor's own brightness settings to go as dark as you need to.

 

[JudySmith]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If you have a nVidia video card, the "advanced" settings for the desktop should bring up the video card settings, and these should include "color correction." If you turn down screen brightness in the video card settings that should combine with a modern monitor's own brightness settings to go as dark as you need to.

Dave, I'm sending you a PM which is relevant.

 

[DaveSimmons]

To anyone using Win XP and a nvidia card, is the "color correction" tab gone from the stock nV drivers in XP?

If so, is there any easy-to-use third-party app that lets you dial down the brightness / gamma correction?

 

[MDE]

I see the color correction tab. I'm using a 5900 nu and the 53.03 FWs.

 

[JRez]

It's not really a tab under XP - under the GF FX5900 tab under Advanced Properties, there's a little side-menu that pops up and the color correction is there.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I think it has to do with the strobing effect of the monitor, because:

1. you say the old 80s monitor cures it, well, the phosphors in those old 80s monitors were really slow and didn't have the strobing problems that today's monitors do (notice on, say, an old apple II, when the screen changes, it takes a small period of time for the old image to totally go away - that's what I'm talking about)
2. you say that flurescent lights used to make you nauseus - well, flurescent lights also strobe (at 60hz, which is what AC power in america runs at).

What I'm getting to is that you should perhaps try an lcd. They don't have these problems, although they do have some other possible downsides (price, resolution.. although resolution doesn't seem to matter much if you can stand using a monitor from the 80s). Check it out at least.

 

[Bitdog]

If there is one light in the room aimed at the monitor or in your eyes while viewing the screen,
you might try two smaller light sources high & to the right and left of the monitor.
This gives a cross light on your desk and is easier on your eyes.
Direct 60hz light aimed at your 60hz monitor is a bad thing.
Putting the monitor and the lights on different circuts might help.
Addiing spectrum by using different type bulbs, might help. Two 40 watt bulbs over the desk & a round neon
in the center of the room.
Then if you can set your monitors hz high, or something that's different than the bulbs 60hz
which avoids the strobe effect.

Maybe there are other factors present ?
Does your microwave leak ? Do you stand infront of it while it cooks something ?
I mean, are you at your limit and the monitor is the last straw type thing.
Is there a microwave dish or transmitter in your area?
Major power lines near ?
Possible vitimin shortage ? Like eat lots of carrots for your eyes.

Well there's some ideas for you any way, I hope some of them help some how.

Bitdog

 

[JudySmith]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
To anyone using Win XP and a nvidia card, is the "color correction" tab gone from the stock nV drivers in XP?

If so, is there any easy-to-use third-party app that lets you dial down the brightness / gamma correction?

To Dave & everyone:

My head is in a whirl with everyone on a different track. First of all Dave, you're aware, aren't you, that the fact that I lacked a Color Correction tab may be related to the old '80s monitor? In other words, if I would go thru the bother of hooking up the Samsung (just to check it out), might I then see the Color Correction tab display?

Or is that not the case?

On the other hand, if it has to do with the strobing possibility brought up by BingBong - then how would color correction help?

Please note that in the past I used to work with all sorts of old CRTs - without the ill effects I've experienced with the newfangled ones which lack dial-knobs. Furthermore, my mother also complained that her eyes hurt when viewing my KDS and Samsung. And her eyes are much less photosensitive than mine. AND I had adjusted the brightness/contrast to the dimmest dimness possible - which isn't saying much.

BingBong, I don't understand why you recommend an LCD since that's exactly what the horrible [for me] SyncMaster 151s is... Thanks for the info about strobing as the common denominator of flurescents and newer monitors. Why on earth do the idiotic LCD manufacturers put such high strobing - don't they realize how ill flurescent lites make some people, and so shouldn't they know better than to mimic that effect in monitors? Maybe all photosensitive people should start a class-action lawsuit - citing handicap rights laws or something... Bitdog, re: your suggestions, they're not applicable to my situation. I never did have microwave problems or anything like that. I doubt I'm even electrosensitive so much as photosensitive. Re: the carrots, if anything, I need to eat LESS carrots - in fact the latter don't agree with me and that may be my body screaming "hey, she's photosensitive enough, she doesn't need carrots."

Anyway if there's no electrical engineer here who can advise me how/if it's possible to lessen my SyncMaster's $%#&* strobing - back to the original Q:

Are there any dealers out there who specialize in selling un-used 1980's monitors - the ones that have dial-knob screen adjustment?

 

[DaveSimmons]

My head is in a whirl with everyone on a different track. First of all Dave, you're aware, aren't you, that the fact that I lacked a Color Correction tab may be related to the old '80s monitor? In other words, if I would go thru the bother of hooking up the Samsung (just to check it out), might I then see the Color Correction tab display?

I don't think so, this is an adjustment to the video card itself, to change the signal that it sends out to the monitor.

Unfortunately I won't have Windows XP installed here for a few weeks (when I upgrade) so I can't poke around to see where color correction is hidden in XP.

If you can find it yourself it should help you darken the monitor -- the darkening in the video card will combine with the darkening you've already done to your monitors.

But BBWF is right that you could also be having refresh rate / strobing problems. I get eyestrain if I stare at a monitor running with too low of a refresh rate (60 Hz instead of 75-80).

 

[JudySmith]

But BBWF is right that you could also be having refresh rate / strobing problems. I get eyestrain if I stare at a monitor running with too low of a refresh rate (60 Hz instead of 75-80).

Since you mention refresh rate, it may interest you that during my frenzied researching these past weeks (on all sortsa stuff, not just this issue) I searched for "photosensitive" on Yahoo Groups Home. I came across a group labelled "photosensitive epilepsy" and the people on that group seem to find that higher refresh rates cause them less problems, due to the fact that flicker triggers their epilepsy, and there's less flicker with higher refresh.

Interestingly, one of the few supplements that actually has an effect on me to relax me, is GABA, which is also used to good effect in epilepsy!

However, unlike myself, the epileptics seem to find LCDs better than CRTs - so I'm confused, because after all, if GABA is good for them and me, then why are LCDs better for them but worse for me? When I was using the Syncmaster, it didn't make a difference what I set the refresh rate - I still had problems. It's true I didn't yet try changing the surrounding lighting, but there's barely room for me to do so, not to mention available outlets. My 6-socket power-strip is full, and even the three-socket extender plugged into the wall behind is nearly full. It would be much more convenient to just have a problem-free monitor.

Of most interest to me, and I'd like to thank BingBong, has been the info provided re: fluorescent phosphors in LCDs. Because this led me to Google-researching:

fluorescent phosphors lcd

Which led me to "How Stuff Works" which site linked to this
informative software developer's LCD article (including feedback from others)
who himself suffered from my problem (though a more recent LCD was OK for him)
and who brought to light that it's not as uncommon as people might think!

http://www.cloanto.com/users/mcb/19960719lcd.html

Check it out. I may email him, since he may be able to advise me. Thing is, his latest LCD doesn't seem to be bothering him, yet my Syncmaster does. I don't think he mentioned whether his friend (who even had worse problems than him) was alleviated by newer LCDs. Another possibility that nobody mentions is whether WARM-FLUORESCENT LCDs might not be less problematic - if viable?

 

[JudySmith]

If you can find it yourself it should help you darken the monitor -- the darkening in the video card will combine with the darkening you've already done to your monitors.

OK I fooled around a bit and actually, like Jrez said, (except this was under the Geforce4 MX-440 tab) there was a side menu popping out, and when I clicked "Overlay Controls" I found controls for Brightness, Contrast, Hue & Saturation.

I dragged the pointers down to the lowest Brightness, Contrast, Hue & Saturation settings, but my screen did not darken. Remember, I'm on the '80s CRT.

I'm not sure what would happen with the Samsung, but it's not physically easy for me to keep switching hookups. I'll see if I gather the stamina one of these days, to [again] drag the heavy desk forward, and become a contortionist in these cramped quarters, to unplug everything and so on & so forth.

I forgot to ask whether the Color Correction feature dims the monitor via the same type of mechanism that dial-knob CRTs do? Meaning - is it supposed to be able to dim my monitor to the point of near-darkness?

Also, do you happen to know how I can correct that my Preview & Printout on the '80s CRT truncates text on the right?

Thank y'all so much for your help!

 

[CuriousGeeorge]

Sorry to hear about this Judy.
The gamma and color correction should be there regardless of monitor. If driver acceleration gets turned off sometimes this can disable these tabs. Under display properties-->advanced-->color (most likely) Each card this can very slightly. This applies to your newer monitors tho. Under adapters or monitor is where to raise refresh rate. May have to change it also under displays if you have a multi display adapter. Because if your display setting is set low it won't matter what you set monitor to possibly. This is because you just set a profile that won't allow higher refresh rates. Don't do this on old crt...it can't handle higher refresh rates. I
think you should determine if it is flicker which can be god awful, but is totally correctable. If you use an 80's monitor it kinda seems unlikely tho. I doubt you will find someone selling old 80's stock unused. Also you can't really adjust those monitors mainly because they lack digital circuitry to smoothly multisync and stick. If it is possibly a glare and brightness issue, you should be able to tweak video card gamma etc or possible color temp(on monitor) if you are on analog connector. I use full spectrum lights in my office. Helps me with my work, but also keeps me from being down in the winter.
But I would play with lighting and I highly recommend anti-glare glasses which you can get even if you don't wear glasses. Also consider that it could be the coloring or tint of the screen for which you should be able to compensate. Certain colors in lights or otherwise can make people very ill. Researching is a great way to get good info, also if you have had this problem all your life maybe a health or nutrition professional can help. Even getting someone who is not sensitive to look at these monitors...like someone in graphics etc... can help pinpoint the problem. Good Luck!

 

[JudySmith]

Whew, since my last post I've been doing tons of research (& also located gamma/vibrance thanks to Dave Simmons though dimming it didn't help, nor did changing resolution or frequency. Anyway the LCD was touted as flicker-free & low EMF.

It's most probably the color plus brightness that's the culprits.
Arnold Wilkins has a site on Color & Visual Stress. I tried Tinter-Lite but it only works in WordPad, not browsers.
There's also Irlen glasses & overlays.
Also Computer Vision Syndrome doctors.
Also IBM thinkpads which are much less problematic for photosensitive people.

Alot of these options are too expensive.

I also heard of John Ott's research, as well as the American Society for PhotoBiology.

And I'm also considering Solar Stat (upon research, following a tip about UV window-tinting film, from Dave Simmons which he thought might be a wacky idea, but hey, may not be so far out after all...
I may try it & see.