Repubs say they want to end birthright citizenship - bye, bye, 2016 election

[Indus]

That is true. It's like hoping to win the lottery..

 

[JSt0rm]

That is true. It's like hoping to win the lottery..

And they put up with a lot of pain while waiting for it to happen.

 

[DCal430]

Remember this is the party that wants to also get rid of the 13th amendment, so big companies can bring workers to the U.S and chain them to factory machines like slaves. This is a sick party. There have multiple prominent party members who have spoken in support of this.

 

[fskimospy]

No, maybe, just maybe, people like you are willing to accept status quo because you don't see anything wrong with unfettered immigration. Maybe, just maybe, you don't give a flying fuck whether lower educated low income people can get jobs. Maybe, just maybe, you don't care too much and would rather result to screedish "isms" to prove some moronic point. Maybe, just maybe, we aren't the world's savior and need to look after ourselves for once.

Maybe, just maybe, we should not listen to the Cock brothers and Soros and do what is right for our country and not what is right for the .1%.

This is just more factless, emotion driven ranting.

Trump has dumb and illegal ideas on immigration. It's long past time you admitted that.

 

[shira]

No, maybe, just maybe, people like you are willing to accept status quo because you don't see anything wrong with unfettered immigration. Maybe, just maybe, you don't give a flying fuck whether lower educated low income people can get jobs. Maybe, just maybe, you don't care too much and would rather result to screedish "isms" to prove some moronic point. Maybe, just maybe, we aren't the world's savior and need to look after ourselves for once.

Maybe, just maybe, we should not listen to the Cock brothers and Soros and do what is right for our country and not what is right for the .1%.

Since when does "not accepting the status quo" mean ignoring the Constitution? That's the point of this thread. Republicans appear all too willing to do just that, to pretend that Section 1 of the 14th Amendment means something far more limited that what it and past court rulings clearly state.

Which is the party of "Let's do everything we can to stop women from exercising their Constitutionally-protected right to get an abortion?" Which is the part of "Let's do everything we can to stop minority voters from exercising their Constitutionally-protected right to vote?"

Do you see a pattern here? That's what this thread is about, not about your irrelevant, xenophobic rantings.

 

[werepossum]

They don't come here to wait for amnesty. The notion is absurd. They come here to work & make better lives for themselves. Even the least among them, migrant farm workers, are good at what they do-



http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...sequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/

Migrant workers have been coming north to earn their livings since before either of us were born.

Having picked tomatoes opposite Mexican migrant pickers I can attest to their speed and skill. However, by far most illegals are not migrant farm workers.

 

[Subyman]

Exactly.

What's kind of funny about the "whites becoming a minority" thing is that they do not understand statistics. Most articles talk about whites shifting below 50% of the population in 30 years. However, that isn't becoming a minority. Obviously another single race would have to have a higher population compared to whites for whites to be a minority, its not all of them combined being more than whites. Kind of funny how so much of the bellowing is based on erroneous 3rd grade mathematics.

That doesn't speak to why Ann is wrong though or at least using ignorant hand waving. FWIW, whites need not "fear" a population minority, if they want to fill their life with fear then they should think on being in the wealth minority, which won't happen any time soon.

 

[Indus]

Speaking of picking food (werepossum), is it just me or the GOP candidates look like 5 year olds trying to decide between cheeseburgers or chicken fingers rather than have any concrete beliefs and this has been shown best by this very birthright issue.

They're against repealing 14th amendment, they're for repealing, they think an amendment is unconstitutional (I don't even know how that's possible since it's an amendment.. do they even comprehend the English language).

 

[bradly1101]

I don't agree with you that often, but this is why I like you. You are a genuinely nice person and I'm glad you are here.

Thanks! Right back atcha!

You and others on this forum are the only politically differing voices I hear on a regular basis. I don't talk politics with my friends, and my family and I mostly agree.

It's easy to feel right (as in correct) and see only one way, but that discounts a lot of strongly held beliefs.

We all have specific topics we believe in, and I have certainly spouted off on my liberal, peacenik beliefs here. But in general terms I see the biggest disagreement as being the role of government. This one issue colors so many others.

It seems like every time we've had strong, well supported central and local governments optimism as well as our standing domestically and internationally has soared. We've seen several times in our history what happens when that wealth is concentrated among a relative few. One side seems to think the government would do better if it was weaker (except for the military).

Imagine if we had the huge jobs/infrastructure bill that Obama has been recommending for a long time. There are ways to pay for it, but too many politicians are beholden to big-moneyed contributors who know their tax loopholes and relatively low rates are at risk. Also handing Obama a success like would be a mortal sin. {sigh}

'Big money' isn't the enemy, but how it's wielded in this climate of unlimited contributions is corrosive at best from both sides. We're seeing the very problems that limits on financing were designed to fix (imagine all the places that could really use that money). We seem to keep repeating the same mistakes. But I must remember that others don't see it that way and that I have an opinion worth approximately 1/7,500,000,000.

 

[Vic]

This is just more factless, emotion driven ranting.

Trump has dumb and illegal ideas on immigration. It's long past time you admitted that.

Trump is to the GOP what the Westboro Baptist Church is to fundamentalist Christianity. An embarrassing vision of what their ideology would look like if carried to its (il)logical extreme.

 

[JSt0rm]

Trump is to the GOP what the Westboro Baptist Church is to fundamentalist Christianity. An embarrassing vision of what their ideology would look like if carried to its (il)logical extreme.

Its pretty fun to watch though. 😀

 

[MongGrel]

Its pretty fun to watch though. 😀

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Vic]

Its pretty fun to watch though. 😀

It brought back Bloom County, and that's enough for me.

 

[werepossum]

Thanks! Right back atcha!

You and others on this forum are the only politically differing voices I hear on a regular basis. I don't talk politics with my friends, and my family and I mostly agree.

It's easy to feel right (as in correct) and see only one way, but that discounts a lot of strongly held beliefs.

We all have specific topics we believe in, and I have certainly spouted off on my liberal, peacenik beliefs here. But in general terms I see the biggest disagreement as being the role of government. This one issue colors so many others.

It seems like every time we've had strong, well supported central and local governments optimism as well as our standing domestically and internationally has soared. We've seen several times in our history what happens when that wealth is concentrated among a relative few. One side seems to think the government would do better if it was weaker (except for the military).

Imagine if we had the huge jobs/infrastructure bill that Obama has been recommending for a long time. There are ways to pay for it, but too many politicians are beholden to big-moneyed contributors who know their tax loopholes and relatively low rates are at risk. Also handing Obama a success like would be a mortal sin. {sigh}

'Big money' isn't the enemy, but how it's wielded in this climate of unlimited contributions is corrosive at best from both sides. We're seeing the very problems that limits on financing were designed to fix (imagine all the places that could really use that money). We seem to keep repeating the same mistakes. But I must remember that others don't see it that way and that I have an opinion worth approximately 1/7,500,000,000.

I think it was Reagan who said one can accomplish a great deal if one cares not who gets the credit. Nowadays we don't have that, we have two parties who believe that a barely decent bill for which we get credit beats a really good bill for which the other team gets credit. On top of that though, government has become so powerful, so intrusive, that the opportunities for compromise are many fewer. (That might not be a bad thing, since when both parties agree we tend to get screwed.)

 

[First]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/the-gops-birthright-citizenship-flip-flop-121646.html

The history of the 14th is so abundantly clear. It's really quite shameful to rationalize away American citizenship because you find Hispanics culturally objectionable. That's what this is all about, after all.

 

[LegendKiller]

Trump is to the GOP what the Westboro Baptist Church is to fundamentalist Christianity. An embarrassing vision of what their ideology would look like if carried to its (il)logical extreme.

Great way of understanding why people are thinking the way they are thinking.

 

[Vic]

Great way of understanding why people are thinking the way they are thinking.

I understand exactly why they are thinking the way they are. They want to blame their problems on someone else and believe that the solutions are simple.

 

[LegendKiller]

I understand exactly why they are thinking the way they are. They want to blame their problems on someone else and believe that the solutions are simple.

No, they want a country of laws. You want a country of lawless.

You haven't proposed a single shred of evidence to show that amnesty will stop the flood of illegals across the border. It didn't stop it under Reagan.

So what's your solution? You grant amnesty, they'll still come. So are you going to make them legal forever? Just keep granting amnesty?

What about true immigration?

What about flooding the lower skilled job markets? Not a single "study" anybody has posted addresses that, nor the social and economic impacts, nor whether the unemployment of black and other minorities is being effected.

Nope, just make them illegal, forever, don't enforce our laws, don't send them home.

 

[Victorian Gray]

No, they want a country of laws. You want a country of lawless.

You haven't proposed a single shred of evidence to show that amnesty will stop the flood of illegals across the border. It didn't stop it under Reagan.

So what's your solution? You grant amnesty, they'll still come. So are you going to make them legal forever? Just keep granting amnesty?

What about true immigration?

What about flooding the lower skilled job markets? Not a single "study" anybody has posted addresses that, nor the social and economic impacts, nor whether the unemployment of black and other minorities is being effected.

Nope, just make them illegal, forever, don't enforce our laws, don't send them home.

Don't you ever get tired of punching straw?

 

[Indus]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/the-gops-birthright-citizenship-flip-flop-121646.html

The history of the 14th is so abundantly clear. It's really quite shameful to rationalize away American citizenship because you find Hispanics culturally objectionable. That's what this is all about, after all.

I agree with you.

Economic migration is the reason for this.

If things were so economically feasible, people would never move. I myself had to move to Singapore to get a good paying job after 2008 crisis. My friend had to move to Texas for a job.

Now that the people are looking to settle away from the high city rents, pushed away by billionaires who want to rent a space for $10000 a month instead of $600, they are moving to suburbs and suburbia feels threatened.

 

[soulcougher73]

Don't you ever get tired of punching straw?

So, no solution then. Got it.

 

[LegendKiller]

Don't you ever get tired of punching straw?

Don't you ever get tires of posting nothing? No answers, no questions, no debate. You're just a twitterhead, living 140 characters at a time.

 

[nixium]

Yeah I definitely replied to you in that other thread, here. I think that's a pretty thorough explanation.



I think it's not hard to fathom that just because someone may not understand the breadth of a benefit, doesn't mean they shouldn't receive the benefit. Sometimes people, especially those not raised in the U.S., may not realize the immense benefits of citizenship. Couple that with the almost universal belief among Americans that wide and easy access to voting, as least since the CRA of 1964, is considered a very good public policy goal.



I'm sorry, but this is some dime store psychology going on. I don't think virtually anyone except the mentally deranged think this way. And not all liberals are mentally deranged, K? ;-)

I missed that post of yours in the other thread. Anyway we'll have to agree to disagree, again. There are many classes of people who would be deemed "second class citizens" and yet there are no problems with them. Convicted felons can't vote in some cases, legal immigrants on a green card can't vote, people on work visas, after declaring immigration intent, can't vote. Same for illegals. I just don't see what disaster will happen if they don't get these rights. On the contrary, I can clearly see that providing voting rights = vote bank for the party that does so. That alone is enough to prevent this.

 

[nixium]

Don't you ever get tired of punching straw?

Go back to the P&N picture thread, that level of discourse is apparently the limits of what you're capable of.

 

[nixium]

So, no solution then. Got it.

LOL at any of you expecting a solution. I'll tell you why, because the following classes of people are currently involved in the debate:

Left wing patronizing bleeding hearts, who want to feel superior to the oppressed, treating them like a dog they've saved. They know what's best for them, more than the oppressed themselves know it.

Apart from these, there's the cynical, politics-are-everything segment that views these illegals no more than a future vote bank. They're playing the long game, thinking 10 years out.

Then there's the truly compassionate, myopically focused on the plight of every group that they want to represent, yet not wondering about how they're all linked (support illegals taking low paying jobs, while pushing for minimum wage for citizens who are driven out of such jobs, while claiming they don't really want to work those jobs).

These groups will not stop at anything short of full citizenship and open borders. Enforcement is not really a concern for them; there always needs to be a steady supply of souls to save.

On the other side, there's there xeonophobic nativists and race warriors who worry about assimilation, race and culture, and want them all out, by any and every means. Contrary to popular notion, these aren't just the KKK style white racists; they come in every shade and color, with the one common thing being the fear of outsiders, competition, and cultural purity. This group will accept nothing except complete enforcement and deportation.

Then there's the corporatists, who slobber over the prospect of nearly unlimited supply of an underclass that are as close to the definition of indentured servitude as possible. They love the status quo, and want it to continue as long as possible. They make unlikely allies with the first few groups described. To them, reform or no reform doesn't really matter. Their only interest is the lack of harsh penalties on them for hiring illegals, which they handle by lobbying.

You can see this very mix of people in this thread. Forsaken in this debate are legal immigrants who play by the book, going on an aching, long journey through the byzantine immigration system, watching desperately needed reforms being held up by the shrill noises of the groups above. Other losers are the moderates interested in a common sense solution - upholding laws while being compassionate towards the illegals themselves.

The winners? Clearly, the corporatists. And they have won. Inaction is victory, for them.

In the long run, amnesty and open borders are inevitable. Children of 12 million illegals, a fair bit of them un assimilated, will vote for their own, and it's certainly not going to be deportation. In fact, I would be surprised if there were anything such as fines, waiting times, etc. The next few years are the last chance for the moderates and immigration-restrictionists to have any impact. After that, it's good bye rational immigration.

The only solution, is the one JStorm mentioned earlier - cut off the demand for jobs. If some company executives were made examples of immigration violations, the demand would dry up immediately. Walls and other enforcement mechanisms aren't going to be effective. But since the corporate lobby is so strong, this will never happen.