Republicans winning the war on the poor and working families

[Matt1970]

Not that again, not the "it started in the 70's" routine. Nobody denies that. The only denial here is that Reaganomics didn't make it worse.

We experienced several economic shocks in the 70's. Going off the gold standard. Oil Embargo. The end of the Vietnam War. Carter deregulated transportation.

Working people always take a hit in times of economic turmoil.

At least you admit it now. That's the first step towards acknowledging what the real problem here is. Tell me what you think is more damaging to the US economy, people at the tippy-top keeping more of the money they make or consumers purchasing more and more stuff made overseas?

 

[Jhhnn]

As opposed to the infinite demand for useless dipshits who can't think at all in your big-government run nanny-state pipedream.

Only leftists could think people having critical thinking skills is scary and bad but then again..... leftists.

And only you can use that sort of false attribution to create a non-argument while diving into the bunker o' denial.

I can't say that I've seen liberals claim that the earth is only 6000 years old, or that withholding scientific evidence about birth control somehow leads to better educational outcomes, either. Where's the critical thinking skill in any of that?

Where are the critical thinking skills in this string of trumped up "Scandals" from Righties, starting with Birtherism? Ben-fucking-ghazi?

 

[glenn1]

Yes! We're winning our evil EVIL war! The poor and downtrodden are doomed, DOOOOOMED HAHAHAHA!

Only Dave can foil our evil plans now.

Yes, it's an evil war consisting of not supporting the spending they want. Oppose 99 weeks of unemployment or "free" birth control and you're waging war against the poor and women. Which is like saying I'm "waging war" against my daughter when I refuse to buy her candy when she begs for it in the supermarket checkout line.

 

[Jhhnn]

At least you admit it now. That's the first step towards acknowledging what the real problem here is. Tell me what you think is more damaging to the US economy, people at the tippy-top keeping more of the money they make or consumers purchasing more and more stuff made overseas?

Oh, please. As if American consumers have some choice in buying what the market & the Job Creators offer. And when the very few at the very tippy top keep more of their income, it's important to remember that they cut american workers out of the picture to do it with offshoring & automation. It's not just "their money", but rather their share of national income, too.

You do realize that the top 1% share of national income has basically doubled since 1978, the lion's share of that going to the top .1% & even the top .01%, transferred mostly from median families & below?

 

[Matt1970]

Oh, please. As if American consumers have some choice in buying what the market & the Job Creators offer. And when the very few at the very tippy top keep more of their income, it's important to remember that they cut american workers out of the picture to do it with offshoring & automation. It's not just "their money", but rather their share of national income, too.

You do realize that the top 1% share of national income has basically doubled since 1978, the lion's share of that going to the top .1% & even the top .01%, transferred mostly from median families & below?

And there you have it. One magical mystical morning everything was made in the US and all of sudden the shelves were cleared and there was nothing to buy but imports. It's not like we slowly started buying more and more imports over the last 45 years, it's that we never had a choice. We didn't slowly start buying more and more import clothes, it's just one day we didn't have a choice. Just ignore the fact that we were warned in the 70's and 80's about what we were buying.

 

[Jhhnn]

And there you have it. One magical mystical morning everything was made in the US and all of sudden the shelves were cleared and there was nothing to buy but imports. It's not like we slowly started buying more and more imports over the last 45 years, it's that we never had a choice. We didn't slowly start buying more and more import clothes, it's just one day we didn't have a choice. Just ignore the fact that we were warned in the 70's and 80's about what we were buying.

Oh, please. That's beyond lame. You're blaming the victim. Consumers buy on the basis of price & quality. Capitalists determine where to make goods on the basis of profit. There's less profit in doing it in this country, therefore they don't. That happens incrementally. Which leads us to the situation of today.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, it's an evil war consisting of not supporting the spending they want. Oppose 99 weeks of unemployment or "free" birth control and you're waging war against the poor and women. Which is like saying I'm "waging war" against my daughter when I refuse to buy her candy when she begs for it in the supermarket checkout line.

Which is like saying you're desperate for the comfort of denial. America's economic leadership holds the cards & makes the choices. Either they can create more decent paying domestic jobs & lower profit margins for themselves or they can support the welfare state. They're just trying to have it both ways.

 

[MongGrel]

Thank you.

This is not an us VS them issue.

This is corporate America having our government on the payroll. Regardless of party we have been screwed over by our elected officials.

I'd have to agree with you 100% on that one.

It happens now and then

 

[glenn1]

Which is like saying you're desperate for the comfort of denial. America's economic leadership holds the cards & makes the choices. Either they can create more decent paying domestic jobs & lower profit margins for themselves or they can support the welfare state. They're just trying to have it both ways.

You provide no evidence of a binary choice like "provide jobs or support the welfare state." The rich aren't going to give jobs to people without skills to create economic value for them any more than you would. Threatening ominous consequences like "the poor might suffer" or "the poor will revolt otherwise" aren't convincing anyone, much less the rich.

 

[Jhhnn]

You provide no evidence of a binary choice like "provide jobs or support the welfare state." The rich aren't going to give jobs to people without skills to create economic value for them any more than you would. Threatening ominous consequences like "the poor might suffer" or "the poor will revolt otherwise" aren't convincing anyone, much less the rich.

Heh. They already made the choice. Witness the welfare state, like it or not. It won't be going away anytime RSN. It's apparently more profitable to cut domestic employment & loan the govt the money for welfare than it is to create American jobs.

 

[werepossum]

And there you have it. One magical mystical morning everything was made in the US and all of sudden the shelves were cleared and there was nothing to buy but imports. It's not like we slowly started buying more and more imports over the last 45 years, it's that we never had a choice. We didn't slowly start buying more and more import clothes, it's just one day we didn't have a choice. Just ignore the fact that we were warned in the 70's and 80's about what we were buying.

Exactly. It's not a "them" problem, it's an "us" problem. People like Jhhnn are demanding that corporations not only produce goods in the USA but also make them cheaper than goods produced by dollar a day labor - in essence, demanding that corporations protect them from themselves because they're too freakin' stupid to make good decisions.

Isn't it odd also that Republicans are always accused of wanting to create more poor people when poor people vote Democrat when they vote at all? Seems odd that the party that caters to poor people and benefits from having more poor people gets a pass from some folks even when these things are done in a bi-partisan fashion.

 

[werepossum]

Heh. They already made the choice. Witness the welfare state, like it or not. It won't be going away anytime RSN. It's apparently more profitable to cut domestic employment & loan the govt the money for welfare than it is to create American jobs.

Because of politicians' choices - choices we demanded. Want jobs? Let the federal government collect its taxes exclusively on import tariffs and sales tax. Now the import tariff artificially raises the price of cheap third world labor and sales tax assures that all products have exactly the same US tax burden - in addition to any domestic (to the nation of production) tax burden.

 

[Matt1970]

Oh, please. That's beyond lame. You're blaming the victim. Consumers buy on the basis of price & quality. Capitalists determine where to make goods on the basis of profit. There's less profit in doing it in this country, therefore they don't. That happens incrementally. Which leads us to the situation of today.

It's the truth pal. For you hypothesis to be true everyone would have had to have nothing but American made products available on the shelves one day and the next that are all gone replaced with imports. I am not sure how old you are but I watched the transition happen. I grew up through it. I watched as slowly but surely more and more imports started sitting on the shelf next to US made products which were typically more expensive. Guess which won out? Demand dictates what gets put on the shelves for sale a hell of a lot more than the evil business owners.

 

[Matt1970]

Exactly. It's not a "them" problem, it's an "us" problem. People like Jhhnn are demanding that corporations not only produce goods in the USA but also make them cheaper than goods produced by dollar a day labor - in essence, demanding that corporations protect them from themselves because they're too freakin' stupid to make good decisions.

Isn't it odd also that Republicans are always accused of wanting to create more poor people when poor people vote Democrat when they vote at all? Seems odd that the party that caters to poor people and benefits from having more poor people gets a pass from some folks even when these things are done in a bi-partisan fashion.

Not only that, we are demanding they pay exorbitant wages, paid time off, free healthcare, have a safe clean workspace that doesn't pollute yet they have no problem deciding to purchase a product made here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxT-f-hb8Sg

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I grew up through it.

Judging by the date in your screen name, you're the same age as me. I too remember growing up and watching as more and more imported goods gradually started replacing goods made in the US. In the early 80s, "Made in Hong Kong" and "Made in Japan" were code for cheap crap. I remember my mom and dad buying me a TV for my bedroom in 1984 - it was a Samsung and I remember thinking "Who the hell is Samsung?" I needed a TV for a computer monitor (C64) and I am sure that was one they could afford and it did turn out to be a decent TV. But I digress....

And then we got to the 90s and Clinton signed NAFTA and promoted China's entry into the WTO. Did anyone seriously believe this was going to help the middle class? Perot and others warned us what would happen, but the politicians insisted America's future was being the managers, designers, litigators, "creative thinkers," etc. and education would elevate the middle class. It was a foolish idea. Foreigners aren't dumb or less creative than Americans; the differences between us are largely cultural and this difference is disappearing. What are the politicians going to tell us when China and other countries are doing all the design, management, etc?

The only thing that happened is middle-class jobs got shipped overseas and in the process, tuition soared and this huge student loan bubble has been created. There is an oversupply of certain "advanced" degrees that are quite frankly useless (I'm looking at you, MBA) for 95% of all jobs out there. And now, the education house of cards is teetering on the edge. What will politicians tell us next? "Well, uh, yeah, you just need MORE education and training!" The answer is not driving your entire population into hundreds of millions of dollars of even more student loan debt that will never pay off for the majority of them. The answer is for our politicians to remove their hands from the pockets of Wall St and the rich and to start passing policies that make sense and help middle America. The Democrats throw money to the poor, the Republicans throw money to the rich, and both pay nothing but lip service to the middle class.

 

[Jhhnn]

Exactly. It's not a "them" problem, it's an "us" problem. People like Jhhnn are demanding that corporations not only produce goods in the USA but also make them cheaper than goods produced by dollar a day labor - in essence, demanding that corporations protect them from themselves because they're too freakin' stupid to make good decisions.

Lovely false attribution. I offered no such thing.

Isn't it odd also that Republicans are always accused of wanting to create more poor people when poor people vote Democrat when they vote at all? Seems odd that the party that caters to poor people and benefits from having more poor people gets a pass from some folks even when these things are done in a bi-partisan fashion.

Repub leaders don't care if they create more poor people, just so long as they get theirs. There is no intent, other than callous indifference. How do poor people vote? 8 out of 10 of our poorest states are deep red-

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12821534/1/the-10-poorest-states-in-america.html

 

[Jhhnn]

The Democrats throw money to the poor, the Republicans throw money to the rich, and both pay nothing but lip service to the middle class.

False. The ACA subsidizes the healthcare for millions of middle class American families, for example. Financial regulation attempts to protect middle class families from predatory lending & prosperity crushing business swings. There are many other efforts like the EPA that protect us all.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

False. The ACA subsidizes the healthcare for millions of middle class American families, for example. Financial regulation attempts to protect middle class families from predatory lending & prosperity crushing business swings. There are many other efforts like the EPA that protect us all.

You're not getting it, but I am not surprised.

 

[Matt1970]

Lovely false attribution. I offered no such thing.



Repub leaders don't care if they create more poor people, just so long as they get theirs. There is no intent, other than callous indifference. How do poor people vote? 8 out of 10 of our poorest states are deep red-

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12821534/1/the-10-poorest-states-in-america.html

Sure when you subdivide everything by state borders it looks that way. Overall voting habits paint a different picture.

 

[Matt1970]

You're not getting it, but I am not surprised.

He never will. He has been shown all the evidence in the world but truthiness wins out every time.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

He never will. He has been shown all the evidence in the world but truthiness wins out every time.

He just needs to change his screen name to "DemocratsGoodRepublicansBad."

 

[Jhhnn]

You're not getting it, but I am not surprised.

I offered examples of efforts in support of the middle class that Dems support. I could go on for some while about the FDA, Federal flood control projects, OSHA, mine safety, Labor Unions, National Parks, Forests & monuments, so forth & so on.

None of which matter in your world of sweeping & unsubstantiated generalization.

Taxes?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/

 

[Matt1970]

He just needs to change his screen name to "DemocratsGoodRepublicansBad."

It's always the evil Republican. Never mind everyone jumped on board the free-trade agreement boat. Never mind it's ultimately the consumers that dictate what gets sold. Try and force shit down people's throats they don't want and it end up in bargain bins for 75% off and stores don't re-order it. Being the same age as me you probably remember the auto maker campaigns that said something to the effect that every time we buy a foreign car. 1.2 Americans lose their jobs. I also remember the "Buy America, save a job, it may be your own" Did we listen? $700 Billion trade deficits say we didn't.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I offered examples of efforts in support of the middle class that Dems support.

That's great that they support the EPA! Who was it that formed the EPA? OSHA was great too. Who formed OSHA? The FDA was a great idea too. Who formalized the FDA?

And I keep hearing that the ACA was a "Republican plan" too. Will you guys please make up your minds?

 

[Matt1970]

I offered examples of efforts in support of the middle class that Dems support. I could go on for some while about the FDA, Federal flood control projects, OSHA, mine safety, Labor Unions, National Parks, Forests & monuments, so forth & so on.

None of which matter in your world of sweeping & unsubstantiated generalization.

Taxes?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/

Why is it always taxes? How is taxing the rich out the wazoo going to get Americans to start buying more American made products? Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Obama all cut middle class taxes.