You havent heard me say what Obama is doing is socialism or that he is a socialist have you?
The bank bailout isnt something I am happy with but it at least served one valid and well documented purpose. To keep the banks from imploding and the credit markets freezing which would have brought our economy to a halt overnight.
The stimulus bill is just an expansion of govt and control under the guise of saving the economy. IMO the economy was already saved from a depression with the bank bailout by keeping the credit markets open. Most of the stimulus bill wont even show up for another 18-24 months. By then the economy should already be in recovery mode. Which means the stimulus bill didnt do much stimulating at all. Only added nearly 800 bill to our debt which will cost the middle class that it claims to help.
- Apr 3, 2002
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Ya, I guess your right... To be honest, I wasn't really paying attention at that point. OK, well, my post wasn't to say the dems are above that sort of asininity (is that a word?) but the reps are clearly getting nowhere with it.
Guys lets be honest here. Obama is being shit on 10 weeks into office, Bush took about 3-4 years to get the hate train rolling. He primarily pulled this off with the invasion of Iraq.
Now, I never supported the full on hate of Bush in the later years of his presidency but get realistic guys. What republicans are doing now agaisnt Obama is FAR worse than what was done to Bush in the beginning of his presidency. There is no comparison if you are being a non-biased observer.
Now, I never supported the full on hate of Bush in the later years of his presidency but get realistic guys. What republicans are doing now agaisnt Obama is FAR worse than what was done to Bush in the beginning of his presidency. There is no comparison if you are being a non-biased observer.
Mani
Diamond Member
- Aug 9, 2001
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Deficit spending would be a reality under any administration right now. I don't even think Ron Paul would have been able to reverse that in the first 90 days. As for examples, I'd cite the reversal of stem cell funding ban, Guantanamo, and an actual a timeline for withdrawal in Iraq. None of them are monumental, but it's barely been a few months. Judging BO's admin as "more of the same" at this point is premature and silly.
Ok well forget the sean hannities of the world. IMO they dont really represent republican or conversative values anyways. In fact they dont realize it but this whole deal with Obama is discreditng them faster than anything else could.
I think one of the reasons you have seen a smack down of republicans the last two election cycles is the fact many repubs are sick of where the party went the last 10 years. McCain wasnt an inspiring pick and Palin was a sideshow. I dont know many conservatives who were thrilled with that situation. Though I voted for them it was only because I didnt want what we have today. An administration + congress tied at the hip passing 800 billion spending bills without blinking an eye and calling people who dont like it hypocrites or unamerican. In other words the same shit we saw under Bush except bigger.
Anyways I cringe everytime I hear republican talking head Sean Hannity say Obama is a socialist or heading us down the road to socialism. While the second part might have some merit by nationalizing industry I dont believe it to be a long term deal and it still sounds weak and baseless.
I think one of the reasons you have seen a smack down of republicans the last two election cycles is the fact many repubs are sick of where the party went the last 10 years. McCain wasnt an inspiring pick and Palin was a sideshow. I dont know many conservatives who were thrilled with that situation. Though I voted for them it was only because I didnt want what we have today. An administration + congress tied at the hip passing 800 billion spending bills without blinking an eye and calling people who dont like it hypocrites or unamerican. In other words the same shit we saw under Bush except bigger.
Anyways I cringe everytime I hear republican talking head Sean Hannity say Obama is a socialist or heading us down the road to socialism. While the second part might have some merit by nationalizing industry I dont believe it to be a long term deal and it still sounds weak and baseless.
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
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Are you expecting him to reverse his decisions on Bush policies he is currently continuing? His deficit numbers are his own. Those wont change unless the economy somehow doubles in the next 8 years.
The stem cell ban was a sideshow, gitmo is supposed to be closed next January. But I expect delays as he realizes like many other Bush policies the options are bleak. His withdrawl is just an accelerating timeline Bush negotiated before leaving office and still comits 50,000 troops indefinately to the country. While that happens we are going to quadruple the troops in Afghanistan. Which if my numbers are correct would be close to 100,000 troops. We shifted nearly 1:1 from Iraq to Afghanistan.
Deficit spending would have been a given without a reduction in govt spending. That is correct however Obama expanded govt spending and is now projecting a 1.5-1.7 Trillion deficit because of it. I dont think Ron Paul or even McCain would have worked with congress for such a disgusting budget.
this article could just as easily been posted 2-3 years ago and applied to the democrats. they did pretty well for themselves as the party of no.
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
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Because he is trying to redefine America. Apollogize and capitulate to the world for being the worlds only superpower? BHO polarizes Americans like no other president. What do you expect coming from the most liberal Senator? Also Conservatives are just plain frustrated by the lack of leadership from true conservatives in the republican party. It all adds up to what see now.
- Apr 3, 2002
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Its kind of funny. Your post illustrates the problem. You guys are so worked up about nothing that you cant see straight.
He is NOT redefining America - in spite of what Glenn Beck says, our republic will live on and prosper as it always has.
He is NOT apologizing for being the only superpower - He apologized for mistakes we have made. Nothing wrong with that.
He is NOT capitulating anything. - I dont even know what you mean by that.
He IS spending too much, but you guys ranting on about the above stuff , and every single other thing he does, drowns out your valid cries of the real issues.
I'm fairly sure Lincoln polarized Americans more than Obama is currently doing, I think history will back me up here.
I'm curious what Obama has capitulated so far, regarding the apologies I really haven't kept track of what he exactly apologized for but if it was regarding the financial crisis I don't really fault him for that. Also the most liberal senator? I have my doubts about that I'd imagine Reid/Nancy would have him beat but if you link proof I'll apologize.
The one part of your post I could agree with is the frustration in the Republican party.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
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If you think about it, that only makes sense. Neither absolute conservatism or absolute progressivism is desirable. Fix what needs fixing but keep what worked. Sometimes it seems like Democrats want to change things simply for the sake of change, and Republicans obviously stand in the way of things which need to change. If you want to all any attempts to preserve ANYTHING obstructionism, that's your prerogative, but sometimes a bit of obstructionism is good.
I find myself obstructing progress all the time at work. Sales and marketing are always jumping frenetically from one project to the next, looking for the next big thing while people like me are responsible for operations and ensuring that everything works. If we always did whatever marketing wants our daily business would implode. Sometimes you need to slow down, make sure the right decisions are made, and make sure everything is going to work when it's all said and done. If that's obstructionist then I'm proud of it.
The same applies to government. Too bad both parties get carried away with trying to implement their idyllic vision without concern for the realistic end result.
I'm not sure if you are trying to paint broad depictions of the two parties or are talking about the current state of the parties. If you are talking about general history then I would refer you to Reagan who made some of the largest changes to government. If you are talking about current politics then it is clear democrats do not wish to change for the sake of change. Rather they are horrified at the direction the U.S. took with the invasion of Iraq, the general state of de-regulation in the financial industry and also programs like gitmo and wiretapping.
I rather not get into semantics like whether or not regulation effected the economy/etc., but rather show you the opinions of democrats and how it's not just "change" for "change".
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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He didn't apologize for america. He acknowledged the reality that in recent years the US hasn't really cared much what anyone else thought or how anyone else was affected, we were gonna do our thing. You dispute this was the Bush attitude? Obama's immediately following sentence was that Europeans often have unjustified feelings of Antiamericanism. Also true.
BHO polarizes Americans like no other president? This is a blatantly false assertion. Go look at some polls.
Mani
Diamond Member
- Aug 9, 2001
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So first you say "name one of Bush's major policies Obama is changing that had the democrats up in arms" and then when I provide them, you try to downplay them. Regardless of how you view it, providing a timeline for withdrawal in Iraq is still a stark reversal on the Bush position, closing Gitmo and the stem cell ban are easily as big as the other positions you mentioned and had dems as riled up as anything.
As for the deficit, we can only judge at the end of at least 4 years - CBO projections have been far from accurate in the past, and part of Obama's strategy with HC is to cut down on the need for medicare/medicaid entitlements, none of which has been factored into the forecasted budgets. If after 4 years we're staring down the barrel of a huge deficit, I'll hold his feet to the fire like everyone else but I'm not prepared to do that 90 days into his term.
- Apr 3, 2002
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I was looking for major policies. Stem cell research is a sideshow and Obama's Iraq plan is only different from Bush's by a moved up timetable. Both plans had troops in Iraq indefinately. Gitmo imo is a wait and see. I personally believe he wont close it in the time schedule he proposed due to the complex issues surrounding where to put them.
The CBO is typically wrong in they project too much to the positive. Either way Obama himself doesnt expect Bush like deficits ever under his administration.
Gotta say I'm stuck between a rock and hard place. I hate the democrats, but my spite for what the Republicans and Bush did (or, by allowing to continue to exist, passively supported) is greater. I think I will be voting Libertarian, or whichever party which is truly Conservative.
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