Republicans to Vote on Act that Could be VW Bailout Right After US Govt Sues VW

[Moonbeam]

We create what we fear. Conservatives have a brain defect. It is the refusal, after a childhood of being programmed to conform via shame and guilt, to ever feel it again. The result, of course, is that they have become incredibly shameful and are constantly subjected to ridicule by less defective people. It is because of the terrible cost of this disease that allows confession in church and psychotherapy to heal people. We have all been forgiven because we were never to blame. It is the ignorance of our culture regarding mental health that creates our world of emotionally dead zombies. Only you can wake up.

 

[TheSlamma]

I don't care how juvenile it is, whenever I see this pic I die laughing.

Anyway, actually I agree with Zinfamous.

To them, VW is just doing God's work by hastening planetary demise and the return of Jesus Christ on earth to punish the wicked and call back the saved.

Never have a seen a group so hell bend on destroying the environment (finite) at all costs and the excuse for it is always money/economy (replaceable)

 

[Darwin333]

For the record that bill was introduced 5 months before the EPA even issued the notice of violation. Characterizing it as a bailout for volkswagon is disingenous.

Well that makes a bit of difference but I question why they initially introduced the bill?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

For the record that bill was introduced 5 months before the EPA even issued the notice of violation. Characterizing it as a bailout for volkswagon is disingenous.

Details, details.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Well that makes a bit of difference but I question why they initially introduced the bill?

Here's your bogeyman.

http://judiciary.house.gov/index.cf...duces-fairness-in-class-action-litigation-act

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Constitution and Civil Justice Subcommittee Chairman Trent Franks (R-Ariz.) introduced the Fairness in Class Action Litigation Act of 2015 (H.R. 1927) to strengthen federal class action lawsuit rules by ensuring victims who have experienced actual or comparable injury are justly compensated.

The bill calls for reforms to the current federal class action lawsuit framework by requiring classes that consist of members with the same type and extent of injury. Under the proposed legislation, uninjured or non-comparably injured parties can still join class actions, but must do so separately from parties that experienced more extensive injury.

The Subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice is scheduled to hold a legislative hearing on the bill on Wednesday, April 29, 2015.

Chairman Goodlatte and Subcommittee Chairman Franks issued the following statements on the introduction of the Fairness in Class Action Litigation Act of 2015:

Chairman Goodlatte: “The Fairness in Class Action Litigation Act is a simple, one-page bill, that furthers a common sense principle that should apply to class action lawsuits in the future. Only those people who share injuries of the same type and extent should be part of a class action lawsuit. I was proud to help move the Class Action Fairness Act through Congress ten years ago, and today I am introducing this legislation to supplement the protections afforded to victims in class actions, and further reduce wasteful litigation in our courts.”

Subcommittee Chairman Franks: "Class action lawsuits should allow those with serious injuries to have their own day in court. The Fairness in Class Action Litigation Act would do just that."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We create what we fear.

This thread (and your post) is a perfect example of that.

 

[momeNt]

My guess is that there are maybe only a handful of billionaires that work at or somehow have an interest in VW. There are many many more middle class people that work at or have an interest in VW. So who is the real bailout recipient if VW goes under??

 

[Subyman]

I read the bill, but it's pretty vague on how the "same type and scope" would be defined. It could be a good or bad thing, but with it worded so openly, I wouldn't support it. That said, the article in the OP is an absolute click bait joke.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1927/text

Yeah, I'm not see how this is a "bail out" for VW. I wouldn't support this bill for the reasons you described, so calling it a bail out doesn't make any sense. This seems to be worded so that all class members represented within the suit have similar damages. I'm not for more restrictions on class participation, so I would vote against this.

 

[Sonikku]

Republican's are for socialism. Just not for the common American.

 

[Darwin333]

Here's your bogeyman.

http://judiciary.house.gov/index.cf...duces-fairness-in-class-action-litigation-act

Well on the surface it sounds somewhat reasonable. While I understand why class action lawsuits are necessary the injured parties usually get boned pretty hard and the only groups that make out well are the damn lawyers. So I definitely agree that something should be done to fix them but I'd have to hear from some legal experts to know if this will help at all.

 

[ivwshane]

no suprise.

I volenteer for a group that helps disabled with SSDI and insurance. I have been hearing a lot about while the cost hasn't really gone up the amount of the copay that you NEED to pay before insurance takes over has. Some people making 1k a month have a copay of 1k a month. They are scrambling to find a way to get medicine.

it's insane.

ACA didn't help much from what i can see and made it worse for many.

pitty too it was such a good idea. I really hope GOP kills it so they can get something that works. i suspect the only real solution is single payer.

You are hoping the GOP repeals it and you think they will replace it with single payer? Lol, you must be a glutton for punishment if you keep voting for these fools if you think they will even attempt to fix anything.

 

[ivwshane]

Here's your bogeyman.

http://judiciary.house.gov/index.cf...duces-fairness-in-class-action-litigation-act

You really are an idiot aren't you? Do you know why class action lawsuits exist in the first place? Because corporations have a bad habit of fighting litigation by making it extremely costly for any individual to sue them. Class action lawsuits help make that burden smaller allowing citizens to seek justice. Any bill that limits who can be a part of that process because their injuries aren't the same is a disservice to the American people (actual people not businesses my friend).

So no this isn't a bailout its another fucking give away to corporations at the expense of American citizens. On top of that, it's even worse than a bailout of vw as a bailout for vw would be a bailout for one company, presumably for one time, whereas this shit can benefit all corporations and negatively impact real people forever!

Simply disgusting not only what Republicans have been trying to attempt but the idiots like docsavagefan who simply shrug it off instead of actually understanding what's going on. He's the perfect GOP voter, easily mislead and willing to spread their fud without questioning it.

 

[ivwshane]

Well on the surface it sounds somewhat reasonable. While I understand why class action lawsuits are necessary the injured parties usually get boned pretty hard and the only groups that make out well are the damn lawyers. So I definitely agree that something should be done to fix them but I'd have to hear from some legal experts to know if this will help at all.

How about from from the administrative office of US courts?

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr1927/summary

The House is scheduled to take up the Fairness in Class Action Litigation Act (H.R. 1927), which aims to reform the current federal class action lawsuit framework by requiring uninjured parties to be part of separate class action suits than those parties experiencing more extensive injuries. According to data from the Administrative Office of the United States Courts, enactment of H.R. 1927 could reduce the number of class action suits filed and the number of plaintiffs in them, but could also increase the administrative burden on the courts.

Sounds like a fucking winner to me! /s

 

[elitejp]

I liked this thread better where nobody actually read the proposal or had any idea why it was proposed but rather just wanted to yell at republicans. Now i feel totally at peace because when it comes to the election you guys will just do the exact same thing and vote without researching anything yourselves.

 

[shortylickens]

I liked this thread better where nobody actually read the proposal or had any idea why it was proposed but rather just wanted to yell at republicans. Now i feel totally at peace because when it comes to the election you guys will just do the exact same thing and vote without researching anything yourselves.

To be fair, thats the same reason people vote Republican.
They dont bother to investigate any claims and just listen to what they like.

 

[DrDoug]

no suprise.

I volenteer for a group that helps disabled with SSDI and insurance. I have been hearing a lot about while the cost hasn't really gone up the amount of the copay that you NEED to pay before insurance takes over has. Some people making 1k a month have a copay of 1k a month. They are scrambling to find a way to get medicine.

it's insane.

ACA didn't help much from what i can see and made it worse for many.

pitty too it was such a good idea. I really hope GOP kills it so they can get something that works. i suspect the only real solution is single payer.

Their solution is to just die already...lol! Thanks for the laugh!

 

[DrDoug]

You really are an idiot aren't you? Do you know why class action lawsuits exist in the first place? Because corporations have a bad habit of fighting litigation by making it extremely costly for any individual to sue them. Class action lawsuits help make that burden smaller allowing citizens to seek justice. Any bill that limits who can be a part of that process because their injuries aren't the same is a disservice to the American people (actual people not businesses my friend).

So no this isn't a bailout its another fucking give away to corporations at the expense of American citizens. On top of that, it's even worse than a bailout of vw as a bailout for vw would be a bailout for one company, presumably for one time, whereas this shit can benefit all corporations and negatively impact real people forever!

Simply disgusting not only what Republicans have been trying to attempt but the idiots like docsavagefan who simply shrug it off instead of actually understanding what's going on. He's the perfect GOP voter, easily mislead and willing to spread their fud without questioning it.

Not only that but they are deciding how those bringing the class action suit have been damaged and classifying their positions in the suit according to what 'they' (whoever that is) think the damages were to each person.

This is a giveaway to corporations. I think the class action system needs fixing in the sense that it seems like every single class action win pretty much only enriches the law firms, leaving pennies to the victims in the settlement. Hell, one settlement I got on some computer parts was for almost $5! The problem was they sent the check late and it was already expired when I got it in the mail.

Fix that shit and you have my attention. Until then, leave the mess it is because at least the assholes being sued actually have to pay somebody for fucking up, even if it's only the attorneys. Sad...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Occasionally someone will quote ivwshane and I'm reminded why I have him on ignore. The weird part is that he knows this, but constantly makes angry and nonsensical strawman replies to my posts anyway. His butthurt remains quite extreme it seems. Time to move on ivwshane...time to move on.

 

[ivwshane]

Occasionally someone will quote ivwshane and I'm reminded why I have him on ignore. The weird part is that he knows this, but constantly makes nonsensical and angry replies to my posts anyway. His butthurt remains quite extreme it seems. Time to move on ivwshane...time to move on.

Lol! You are my bitch, deal with it

 

[elitejp]

To be fair, thats the same reason people vote Republican.
They dont bother to investigate any claims and just listen to what they like.

Very true

 

[Moonbeam]

This thread (and your post) is a perfect example of that.

I can't speak for the thread, but I would challenge you to identify the fear creating a reality in what I said.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Moonie, your obsession is unhealthy. You broadly generalize a propensity into a sweeping derogatory judgement against conservatives in general. Your bigotry is strong and your rationalization of it is even stronger. Fear, self-righteousness and ignorance are the three pillars of bigotry. You're better than this.

 

[Meghan54]

For the record that bill was introduced 5 months before the EPA even issued the notice of violation. Characterizing it as a bailout for volkswagon is disingenous.

Details, details.

Ah, the devil is in the details, isn't it?

Well that makes a bit of difference but I question why they initially introduced the bill?

Actually, it probably makes no difference at all, at least that's what it appears when you look at "the details".


First, the European Commission Joint Research Center, Institute for Energy and Transport, in a report issued in 2013 (note the date) said:

On-road emissions tests conducted by the Joint Research Centre (JRC) with Portable Emissions Measurement Systems (PEMS) show that the real-world nitrogen oxides (NOX) emissions of Euro 3-6 light-duty diesel vehicles substantially exceed the regulatory emissions standards (Rubino et al., 2007, 2009; Weiss et al., 2011a,b; 2012). These findings are confirmed by independent PEMS on-road tests (Vojtisek-Lom et al., 2009; Gauss, 2011; Lee, 2012) as well as remote sensing data (Carslaw et al., 2011). On-road emissions tests, furthermore, indicate that the distance-specific NOX emissions of Euro 3-5 light-duty diesel vehicles show no reasonable reduction in the past decade.

However, Gauss (2011) finds that the on-road NOX emissions of Euro 6 diesel vehicles equipped with various emissions reduction technologies may exceed the emissions levels of current Euro 5 vehicles, if driven under similar conditions.

http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC75998/ld-na-25572-en-n_online.pdf (Pg. 1)

And the same study also spoke about the potential for use of defeat devices on page 31 of the above linked study. (Box 2)

Box 2: Cycle detection and the use of defeat devices

Sensors and electronic components in modern light-duty vehicles are capable of
‘detecting’ the start of an emissions test in the laboratory (e.g., based on acceleration
sensors or not-driven/not-rotating wheels). Some vehicle functions may only be
operational in the laboratory, if a predefined test mode is activated. Detecting emissions
tests is problematic from the perspective of emissions legislation, because it may enable
the use of defeat devices that activate, modulate, delay, or deactivate emissions control
systems with the purpose of either enhancing the effectiveness of these systems during
emissions testing or reducing the effectiveness of these systems under normal vehicle
operation and use.

What had transpired was the introduction of the Euro 5 and Euro 6 emission standards for diesels and that it'd been noted that the NOx emissions were getting worse, not better. But no one had been pointing specifically to defeat devices as being the culprit.

Fast forward to May, 2014 and the release of the Univ. of WV study of 3 diesel vehicles that were U.S. cert'd Tier 2, Bin 5 emissions (our standards that these vehicles had to meet). Two were rentals (VW's), one from a private owner (BMW). The highlight of the report was a 2,000 mile trip from LA to Seattle and back in a Passat. It was the first "long distance" on-road emissions test of a vehicle. The study found the Passat was horrible with NOx emissions during the road trip, especially in areas that it should have done well like flat terrain at highway speeds using the cruise, yet passed CARB's emissions testing immediately before the trip with flying colors. Results were reported to CARB.

http://www.eenews.net/assets/2015/09/21/document_cw_02.pdf
(The report has good photos of the portable emissions testing equip, incl. a 2kw Honda generator used to power the equipment, used so no undue electrical strain would be placed upon the tested vehicle and potentially skew the results.)


The WV study was part of a larger one done by the ICCT Europe (International Council on Clean Transportation Europe, Berlin, Germany). The ICCT study mainly focused on Euro diesesl but had commissioned WV to test some U.S. cert'd vehicles as comparison---U.S. emissions standards are a bit tougher than Euro standards. Total of 15 vehicles tested, and the pattern continued. Much higher than expected NOx emissions during on-road testing vs. "standard" emissions testing on a dyno.

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_PEMS-study_diesel-cars_20141013.pdf


So, we've got years of noted non-compliance with emissions standards in Europe, but no one had an explanation, although defeat device use was broached in the 2013 European Commission study. Most manufacturers, from what I've read, tended to blame the discrepancies on drivers and driving style, terrain, route/loop driven, weather, etc., etc.

But we in the U.S. really had paid little attention to the issue, it seems, until the WV study hit CARB in May, 2014----btw, that's 11 months before the bill was introduced.

And since CARB is hand-in-glove with the EPA, I'd be willing to bet the report and its implications weren't exactly hidden from members of Congress. By the time the bill was put forth on Apr, 2015, the EPA investigation was well under way.

And don't you think the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. Goodlatte, VA, had at least gotten a whiff of the smoke brewing at the EPA over what was found to be software manipulation of the emission controls on VW diesels?

Yes, the legislation was introduced 5 months before the EPA's notice was released, but honestly, do you think it was something unknown to the political leadership in either the House or Senate that "something" was in the works vis a vis VW and diesel software manipulation?

Take it for what you will, but the legislation's introduction is just darned convenient for a certain manufacturer facing potentially horrendous monetary damages from customers via a class action suit.

BTW....Rep. Goodlatte's state is the current HQ of VW, America.


So, maybe the timing has nothing to do with anything. On the other hand, sure were a lot of red flags being raised both in Europe and the U.S. about potential cheating on diesel emission standards well before the bill was introduced.

 

[Darwin333]

How about from from the administrative office of US courts?

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr1927/summary



Sounds like a fucking winner to me! /s

Again, I'm not a legal expert which is why I asked. I agree and have already stated that class action lawsuits are very necessary. With that said, you must agree that while people do receive some relief via class actions but for the most part they get a pittance of what they should. I have never understood in huge class action cases with awards of hundreds of millions that attorneys are allowed to keep such a huge chunk. I get that they take a risk and put massive amounts of time and expense into them but to the tune of hundreds of millions, a very large percentage of the overall award?

 

[ivwshane]

Again, I'm not a legal expert which is why I asked. I agree and have already stated that class action lawsuits are very necessary. With that said, you must agree that while people do receive some relief via class actions but for the most part they get a pittance of what they should. I have never understood in huge class action cases with awards of hundreds of millions that attorneys are allowed to keep such a huge chunk. I get that they take a risk and put massive amounts of time and expense into them but to the tune of hundreds of millions, a very large percentage of the overall award?

Yep I totally agree and had this legislation addressed that I would have been all for it but it didn't. Instead it took an already unbalanced recourse for citizens and tipped the scale even more in favor of corporations. A pretty shitty move in my opinion and one of our resident idiots, docsavagefan, sees no issue with it.