Republicans STILL don't have a clue.

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Lemon law
This all misses the point, the republirats again voted 100% for gridlock in the House, not that it did them any good, the dems have enough votes to make the GOP roadkill in the House.

Now on to the Senate, missing only the winner of the of the Minnesota race, but still enough republirats to filibuster everything in the US Senate.

We live in interesting times. Will the GOP become the hero's or the goats they became in 2008?

A salute to the GOP, can't lead, can't follow, and can't get out of the way. Its the trifecta.

GOP wont filibuster. They want the democrats to own this legislation. When it ultimately fails to deliver anything but inflation and a big bill the dems will have nowhere to run.

Well I guess we'll see about that. The majority of Americans support the stimulus bill, with only Republicans being strongly opposed. It's far more likely that Republicans are doing this to placate their base, to avoid challenges from inside their party than from outside.

This also isn't the final version of the bill, the Senate version has attracted significant support from both sides, and of course the two will have to be reconciled.

 

[Lemon law]

GenX87 is delusional when he says, "GOP wont filibuster. They want the democrats to own this legislation. When it ultimately fails to deliver anything but inflation and a big bill the dems will have nowhere to run."

The GOP can't block legislation in the Senate unless they filibuster, and if they do not, they too will own the legislation.

 

[her209]

Everyone pays taxes on AGI.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

 

[RedChief]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: techs
What? Gee, more borrow and tax cut? Isn't that what got us into this mess?

Isn't that exactly what Obama is proposing?

No what Obama is purposing is the largest transfer of wealth to the Federal government in US history, over a trillion dollars with interest.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

You do realize that the vast majority of economists agree that massive government spending is what got not only this country, but nearly every country out of the great depression, right?

I love how everyone on the internet is suddenly an economics expert because they've latched onto some term like "Keynesian economics".

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: techs
http://www.foxnews.com/politic...ter-proposal-stimulus/

An economic stimulus bill pushed by Republicans in the House would shift focus entirely from spending to tax relief.




What? Gee, more borrow and tax cut? Isn't that what got us into this mess?
Obama and the Dems are going to use money to actually create things like bridges, infrastructure, jobs, etc. The Republicans still want to give people a few extra bucks to ship to China.
Did the Republicans fall asleep on election night? And in their misguided minds do they really believe their plan is good for the country?
Geez, Republicanism these days is akin to a mental disease.

When Thatcher did this England was sailing ahead above the rest of the world and our recession never really hit us until later on.

It's a good short term solution but it's lacks direction so a lot of it is wasted, what should be done is something that most people would say is socialism and to be frank, directed support IS socialism since it directly interferes with the market.

Can you stomach it? If so, directed tax cuts can help in the long run, a general tax cut will help in the short run though and probably boost the economy enough so that you don't have to take more serious measures.

This is a good idea, not perfect but still a good idea.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

You do realize that the vast majority of economists agree that massive government spending is what got not only this country, but nearly every country out of the great depression, right?

I love how everyone on the internet is suddenly an economics expert because they've latched onto some term like "Keynesian economics".

Different times, you don't have any money to spend now.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Lemon law
This all misses the point, the republirats again voted 100% for gridlock in the House, not that it did them any good, the dems have enough votes to make the GOP roadkill in the House.

Now on to the Senate, missing only the winner of the of the Minnesota race, but still enough republirats to filibuster everything in the US Senate.

We live in interesting times. Will the GOP become the hero's or the goats they became in 2008?

A salute to the GOP, can't lead, can't follow, and can't get out of the way. Its the trifecta.

GOP wont filibuster. They want the democrats to own this legislation. When it ultimately fails to deliver anything but inflation and a big bill the dems will have nowhere to run.

Well I guess we'll see about that. The majority of Americans support the stimulus bill, with only Republicans being strongly opposed. It's far more likely that Republicans are doing this to placate their base, to avoid challenges from inside their party than from outside.

This also isn't the final version of the bill, the Senate version has attracted significant support from both sides, and of course the two will have to be reconciled.

Of course we will wait and see. The American public are fickle. If the bill fails to deliver in 2 years and all we have to show for it is a big bill and inflation. The dems will suffer.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
GenX87 is delusional when he says, "GOP wont filibuster. They want the democrats to own this legislation. When it ultimately fails to deliver anything but inflation and a big bill the dems will have nowhere to run."

The GOP can't block legislation in the Senate unless they filibuster, and if they do not, they too will own the legislation.

Wrong, the republicans will vote against it. If they vote against it they cant own the legislation. What bizzaro world do you live on?

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: techs
What? Gee, more borrow and tax cut? Isn't that what got us into this mess?

Isn't that exactly what Obama is proposing?

No what Obama is purposing is the largest transfer of wealth to the Federal government in US history, over a trillion dollars with interest.

Never thought that I would be missing Clinton.

 

[idiotekniQues]

all the republicans on here are acting like we are in a normal economic/financial situation.

fuckin morons.

how such idiots function on a day to day basis boggles my mind.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
all the republicans on here are acting like we are in a normal economic/financial situation.

fuckin morons.

how such idiots function on a day to day basis boggles my mind.

What do they call you?

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

You do realize that the vast majority of economists agree that massive government spending is what got not only this country, but nearly every country out of the great depression, right?

I love how everyone on the internet is suddenly an economics expert because they've latched onto some term like "Keynesian economics".

Different times, you don't have any money to spend now.

Or another world war to throw massive amounts of the populace into the military, its support system and the manufacturing base to create the weapons, tools, and supplies that a military needs.

EDIT: Hopefully no, on the world war.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

You do realize that the vast majority of economists agree that massive government spending is what got not only this country, but nearly every country out of the great depression, right?

I love how everyone on the internet is suddenly an economics expert because they've latched onto some term like "Keynesian economics".

Different times, you don't have any money to spend now.

Or another world war to throw massive amounts of the populace into the military, its support system and the manufacturing base to create the weapons, tools, and supplies that a military needs.

EDIT: Hopefully no, on the world war.

You really DO NOT have the money to spend now, no matter how urgent the situation is.

 

[kitkat22]

And history is doomed to repeat itself. We, the USA, will continue to do what has been done for the last 50yrs and hope that it works.

Our economy is in shambles, we have created a monster and it is based on unwise borrowing and unpayable debt, on a national, state and personal level. In our minds, we are too big to fail, just like these "monstrous" companies that claimed just the same. What if this bill doesn't work? Has anyone even thought about that? But, I am told that it will work, this is the solution to our problems and things will get better. I don't buy it. The thing is, if this doesn't work we will continue to throw more money at it and it will continue to spiral out of control, because we can only borrow so much before that money and meaning behind that money is worthless.

Why can't we accept the fact that the United States has made a very large mistake and instead of bandaging the wound that is turning gangrenous, why don't we cut it out? Why can't we accept the fact that we are going to have to go through a recession/depression before we can rise up again?

After this bill is passed we will be at 10 trillion dollars of debt. That is equivalent of 31000 for every man, woman and child in this country. Assuming everyone makes 40000, tax at 40% using 5% of taxes to pay of the debt, and assuming no interest, we will pay off the debt in no less than 39 years. In other words, our economy is now 39 years behind where it should and could be. We are placing our mistakes, our problems on our children and our children's children.

I personally think this all started with Social Security. The program where the today's workers help pay for the retirement of yesterday's workers. Now we are similarly requiring tomorrow's workers to pay for today's workers excesses. We cannot spend our way out of this. We have to accept the fact that our standard of living is now going to fall and it will for some time. We need to stop trying to hold up a falling statue, let it collapse and rebuild it stronger than it was before.

Sorry for the rant/soap box, but the answer is staring us in the face and we are refusing to accept the fact that it is there.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

You do realize that the vast majority of economists agree that massive government spending is what got not only this country, but nearly every country out of the great depression, right?

I love how everyone on the internet is suddenly an economics expert because they've latched onto some term like "Keynesian economics".

Different times, you don't have any money to spend now.

Or another world war to throw massive amounts of the populace into the military, its support system and the manufacturing base to create the weapons, tools, and supplies that a military needs.

EDIT: Hopefully no, on the world war.

You really DO NOT have the money to spend now, no matter how urgent the situation is.

? I was agreeing with you. We don't have the money to spend and I was listing something we don't have that will spur our manufacturing base and exporting of goods to other countries (weapons and goods).

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: RedChief

Originally posted by: MovingTargetParroting "tax cuts" like we've been having the last 20+ years isn't going to work this time...

Parroting Keynesian gov spending didnt work during the 1930's either. All it did was take a Depression and make it Great.

Trickle down economics didn't get us into this mess. Inept and corrupt politicians who protected Fannie/Freddie and expanded its role got us into this mess.

You another one of those who think FDR sent us further into the Great Depression? Try asking people who lived through it. The vast majority will think you don't know what you are talking about. Keynesian economics has far more validity than the current trickle-down theories do that parrot tax cuts as the solution to all our ills. Even if you claim that the war is what ultimately lifted us out of the depression, guess what...it is still government expenditure. Keynesian theory wouldn't' disagree with war spending...

The vast majority at the time got sucked into this kind guy telling them what they wanted to hear via his fireside chats. The people living through it at the time did not understand macro-economics. They didnt understand that wage and price controls only made things worse by making it so small business couldnt survive. Keynesian economics fails whenever it is tried.

Additionally, why is it that whenever a government plan fails, liberals always say its because their wasnt enough money? Bailouts, med care, SSI, school funding. Its always because there was never enough money, its never because the entire plan was based on a failed principle.

You do realize that the vast majority of economists agree that massive government spending is what got not only this country, but nearly every country out of the great depression, right?

I love how everyone on the internet is suddenly an economics expert because they've latched onto some term like "Keynesian economics".

Different times, you don't have any money to spend now.

Or another world war to throw massive amounts of the populace into the military, its support system and the manufacturing base to create the weapons, tools, and supplies that a military needs.

EDIT: Hopefully no, on the world war.

You really DO NOT have the money to spend now, no matter how urgent the situation is.

? I was agreeing with you. We don't have the money to spend and I was listing something we don't have that will spur our manufacturing base and exporting of goods to other countries (weapons and goods).

You'll have to forgive me for that, i read it wrong, god i need a Guiness.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

You'll have to forgive me for that, i read it wrong, god i need a Guiness.

:beer: I need one as well. Can already feel my hard work, along with that of my children and their children going down the drain.

 

[Kanalua]

So...how many laid off IT and Computer/Networking "Professionals" here on OT will be building roads and highways under the new Keynesian porkulus recovery plan? I know my lawfirm would hire more if its taxes were lower...my boss is an old Union socialist and he's even acknowledged that under the Obama tax plan (not even the "recovery" plan) we wont be able to hire on another associate...