Republicans retreat on debt limit stance

[michal1980]

I'm in favor of fighting this out during the budget negotiations. Debt limit is the wrong approach.

democrats dont have a budget, look at the senate.

Is the lmsm pointing that out?

nope. Just blaming republicans.

 

[Mxylplyx]

VS having the republicans accomplish nothing, and get the blame for everything.

Have you ever considered that perhaps the Republicans accomplishing nothing might be related to much of the blame they receive? Radical line of thinking I know, but try to think outside the box on this one.

 

[michal1980]

They only have themselves to blame.

They had the best leverage and position during the first debt ceiling debate and could have discretionary spending cuts, entitlement cuts, future tax reform votes, and most of they cuts the asked for. However, they didn't want to increase tax on the wealthy in even a 1:10 ratio.... They are just really bad negotiators.

exactly why they all should be fired. All of them.

 

[michal1980]

Have you ever considered that perhaps the Republicans accomplishing nothing might be related to much of the blame they receive? Radical line of thinking I know, but try to think outside the box on this one.

Thats partly true.

But its also true that they get blamed for everything by the lmsm. while the failures of democrats get whitewashed. The also get the blame for things they didn't or wouldn't do.

Why isn't the store line "Obama not cutting spending leads to government shut down"

Because the people that run the news are all* obama backers.

*except fox news, but the left doesn't consider them news, so my point still stands.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Why isn't the store line "Obama not cutting spending leads to government shut down"

Because reporting the story along those lines would be intellectually dishonest at best and a flat out lie at worst. The only way the government cant pay it's bills and shuts down is if congress doesn't authorize the government to borrow money from the treasury, something they have been routinely doing for quite a long time. The Republicans were threatening the artificial crisis. They bluffed, they lost, and now they are retreating.

If you steal my dog and threaten to kill it if I dont pay you a ransom, am I the one that killed my dog if I refuse to pay you?

 

[bozack]

seems the electorate has no issues with govt running the books like most do their household finances, recklessly, not sure why that is a surprise to anyone.

Only when people start getting bent over with taxes will they start to truly care....

 

[fskimospy]

democrats dont have a budget, look at the senate.

Is the lmsm pointing that out?

nope. Just blaming republicans.

Why would the media point out that the democrats haven't passed a nonbinding resolution that doesn't actually have any effect on spending levels? Can you perhaps explain what you think the budget you are referring to does and how it would affect such negotiations?

I love how you think it's a media conspiracy though. Lol.

 

[chucky2]

Because reporting the story along those lines would be intellectually dishonest at best and a flat out lie at worst. The only way the government cant pay it's bills and shuts down is if congress doesn't authorize the government to borrow money from the treasury, something they have been routinely doing for quite a long time. The Republicans were threatening the artificial crisis. They bluffed, they lost, and now they are retreating.

If you steal my dog and threaten to kill it if I dont pay you a ransom, am I the one that killed my dog if I refuse to pay you?

Well, more accurately it'd be, I tell you to keep your dog from shitting all over my property or next time I'm going to shoot it...and you then allow your dog to come on over to my property and again shit on it. I then shoot it....is the dog being shot my fault or yours?

Now realize that this applied to our wonderful Fed gov means that my dog goes on your property and shits all over it.

So we reach and agreement that to maintain face with the neighbors and to keep them questioning why our dogs are not only shitting on our properties, but, shitting the entire place up, we'll be nasty to each other on this issue...

...but we'll still both allow our dogs to just keep shitting all over, to the complete detriment and disgust of the neighborhood.

Yeah...DC is that bad...

 

[Matt1970]

The Repubs have done a pretty good job of using misinformation of what the debt ceiling actually is, and I for one am tired of them creating a crisis each and every time standard stuff like the Debt Ceiling comes up. The Debt Ceiling does not mean spending increase, it means we are paying the bills from the past that have now come due.

They won't win if they keep up the way they have, and the 2014 Gubernatorial races will be in peril if they do. They also stand to lose 2016 presidential race if they keep this up.

It's funny how you claim the Republicans have done a pretty good job of using misinformation of what the debt ceiling actually is and then turn around and say it means we are paying the bills from the past that have now come due.

I like this one better though.

Have you ever stopped and considered whether a politician or party is at all capable of delivering on it's promises before voting for them? Anyone at all half way educated on the political landscape in Washington knows that Republicans have made promises they cant possibly deliver.

Apparently we are supposed to just forget about the laundry list of promises from 2008.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Apparently we are supposed to just forget about the laundry list of promises from 2008.

So the Republican strategy is to take obstructionism to heights never before seen in Washington (something that cant really be refuted), and then take the inevitable result of that obstructionism and try to beat Democrats with it? Obama passed his signature legislation which was health care reform, which was a miracle in of itself given the economic shit storm that awaited him in office.

 

[michal1980]

So the Republican strategy is to take obstructionism to heights never before seen in Washington (something that cant really be refuted), and then take the inevitable result of that obstructionism and try to beat Democrats with it? Obama passed his signature legislation which was health care reform, which was a miracle in of itself given the economic shit storm that awaited him in office.

If the left would compromise the republicans wouldn't have to obstruct. But what else can you do when your working with a lefty wingnut who's bent on 'his way or the highway' policies.

 

[Darwin333]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/u...o-lift-debt-ceiling-for-3-months.html?hp&_r=0

It looks like House Republicans are starting to realize they have created a no-win situation for themselves regarding the debt ceiling increase. I think Obama has been quite firm on his position that he will not negotiate regarding the increase, and given the beating the Republicans took in the polls after their last attempt to use it as leverage, I'm surprised the House Republicans were even willing to entertain that idea again. Also, with the upcoming inauguration and state of the union address, Obama was in a much better position to make his case to the public on a big stage, and frankly the line that the Republicans are holding the US economy hostage to try and get their way rings quite true. It's akin to holding a gun to your own child's head as a negotiating ploy, using your own lunacy as leverage. This fiscal "crisis" is purely a manufactured political crisis created and perpetuated by the Republicans party, and it has won them nothing but a beating in the last election. I'm hoping this signifies a steady retreat back towards sanity for the Republican party. Obama has always appeared quite willing to negotiate, often times to a fault, if he has a willing partner. It's about time Republicans sit at the table and work out a deal.

I agree. They should take the fight to were it really matters and that is the budget (continuing?) resolutions.

Regardless, neither party is serious about actually cutting spending. The Republicans could cut a hundred billion (over ten years of course) out of various departments and they would scream victory all while doing basically nothing. They dare not touch medicare/medicaid and they won't significantly cut the .mil, that is the only place to get any sort of substantial cuts.

 

[Darwin333]

If the left would compromise the republicans wouldn't have to obstruct. But what else can you do when your working with a lefty wingnut who's bent on 'his way or the highway' policies.

Do you think that the Republicans could actually pass significant cuts in medicare, medicaid, and the .mil in just the house alone where they enjoy the majority? If not then get back to me when they are and we can have a serious discussion about them wanting to "get our fiscal house in order".

 

[jackschmittusa]

Matt1970

"It's funny how you claim the Republicans have done a pretty good job of using misinformation of what the debt ceiling actually is and then turn around and say it means we are paying the bills from the past that have now come due.'

I'm guessing that your idea of what "raising the debt ceiling" actually means might be interesting, maybe even funny. Please share.

 

[Matt1970]

So the Republican strategy is to take obstructionism to heights never before seen in Washington (something that cant really be refuted), and then take the inevitable result of that obstructionism and try to beat Democrats with it? Obama passed his signature legislation which was health care reform, which was a miracle in of itself given the economic shit storm that awaited him in office.

Is it considered obstructionism when Obama threatens to withhold Social Security checks unless the debt ceiling is raised? You may also be forgetting about the Democrats refusal to cut $66 Billion from a nearly $4 Trillion Budget. Speaking of budgets, how about the Democraticly controlled Senate pass one?

But seing as how you diverted off broken promises I can only wonder what your next responce will be about.....

 

[werepossum]

Why would the media point out that the democrats haven't passed a nonbinding resolution that doesn't actually have any effect on spending levels? Can you perhaps explain what you think the budget you are referring to does and how it would affect such negotiations?

I love how you think it's a media conspiracy though. Lol.

Perhaps instead the media could do a story on what idiots were American politicians for two hundred years as they struggled to pass budgets.

 

[Jhhnn]

Is it considered obstructionism when Obama threatens to withhold Social Security checks unless the debt ceiling is raised? You may also be forgetting about the Democrats refusal to cut $66 Billion from a nearly $4 Trillion Budget. Speaking of budgets, how about the Democraticly controlled Senate pass one?

But seing as how you diverted off broken promises I can only wonder what your next responce will be about.....

Heh. Your efforts to maintain denial would be pitiable, if they came from somebody who is sane.

The executive branch only spends money that congress authorizes, and only borrows to do so when congress authorizes that.

When Repubs refuse to authorize borrowing to cover spending they already approved, spending must stop, and that includes SS.

Try to comprehend what failure to authorize raising the debt ceiling really accomplishes, OK?

Might want the remember that deficits didn't matter when Repubs cut taxes & engaged in wars of adventure at the same time, too... For Repubs, deficits only matter when "the Right People" aren't the recipients of govt largesse. Well, other than the small govt raver sect...

 

[Matt1970]

Heh. Your efforts to maintain denial would be pitiable, if they came from somebody who is sane.

The executive branch only spends money that congress authorizes, and only borrows to do so when congress authorizes that.

When Repubs refuse to authorize borrowing to cover spending they already approved, spending must stop, and that includes SS.

Try to comprehend what failure to authorize raising the debt ceiling really accomplishes, OK?

Might want the remember that deficits didn't matter when Repubs cut taxes & engaged in wars of adventure at the same time, too... For Repubs, deficits only matter when "the Right People" aren't the recipients of govt largesse. Well, other than the small govt raver sect...

I have tried to see things from your point of view but I cannot manage to jam my head up my own ass.

 

[micrometers]

You know what's disgusting? The Tea Party membership knew the debt ceiling vote was coming up in 2011 and they actually asked their congressmen to vote against it during the campaign.

That's disgusting.

 

[Jhhnn]

I have tried to see things from your point of view but I cannot manage to jam my head up my own ass.

Heh. More denial. Obama isn't "threatening" to withhold SS checks if the debt ceiling is not raised. The truth is that he'll have no choice but to do so. He'll also have to quit paying the TSA, FBI, and a whole lot of other federal employees as well. Debt maintenance comes first, unfortunately. That's just the truth- deal with it.

I think he should start with Congress if push comes to shove- quit paying them first, cut off the grannies who live on SS last. Kinda phase it in, try not to hurt the most vulnerable.

Small Gubmint ravers don't seem to care about that. They have their twisted principles, after all.

 

[michal1980]

Heh. More denial. Obama isn't "threatening" to withhold SS checks if the debt ceiling is not raised. The truth is that he'll have no choice but to do so. He'll also have to quit paying the TSA, FBI, and a whole lot of other federal employees as well. Debt maintenance comes first, unfortunately. That's just the truth- deal with it.

I think he should start with Congress if push comes to shove- quit paying them first, cut off the grannies who live on SS last. Kinda phase it in, try not to hurt the most vulnerable.

Small Gubmint ravers don't seem to care about that. They have their twisted principles, after all.

your lying. but I expect that from an Obama supporter.

 

[Jhhnn]

your lying. but I expect that from an Obama supporter.

It's not that I'm lying, but rather that you're so firmly enthralled in some faith based bullshit that you can't possibly comprehend the truth of the matter. If the debt ceiling is not raised, where will the money to meet the govt's obligations come from, anyway?

If Dems would agree to some fat cat tax cuts to go along with raising the debt ceiling, I'm confident that they could get Repubs to go along, however. I'm old enough and smart enough to remember when deficits didn't matter, when Repubs were in charge of both Congress & the Executive branch. They spared no expense on Cold War military hardware or invasions of other countries, indulging themselves the same way that overeaters go on a junk food binge when they're feeling insecure.

It's a shame that their supporters can keep their noses firmly embedded in their leaders' buttcracks through any number of political gyrations, huh?

Especially when that leadership is just taking hostages to strut & preen on the stage of faux concern, pandering shamelessly to the dimmest intellects in their base.

 

[JohnShadows]

Republicans don't want to be forced into a corner where they'll actually have to come up with concrete plans.

 

[Matt1970]

Heh. More denial. Obama isn't "threatening" to withhold SS checks if the debt ceiling is not raised. The truth is that he'll have no choice but to do so. He'll also have to quit paying the TSA, FBI, and a whole lot of other federal employees as well. Debt maintenance comes first, unfortunately. That's just the truth- deal with it.

I think he should start with Congress if push comes to shove- quit paying them first, cut off the grannies who live on SS last. Kinda phase it in, try not to hurt the most vulnerable.

Small Gubmint ravers don't seem to care about that. They have their twisted principles, after all.

No he won't, SS is self funded. Your so called "Small Gubmint ravers" realize we can't keep spending at these levels.

Obama 2008: Bush's $400 Billion deficits, are un-patriotic.
Obama 2012: $1 Trillion+ deficits are the responsible thing to do.

 

[bozack]

What I find truly amusing is all the contributors on the MSN forums who go on and on about how it is always the GOPs fault for not bending over and just giving the dems what they want...

Many say how they are so upset with the Republicans and just want them to raise the debt limit for at least a year if not more just because the prez said that is what he wants and they completely brush aside any mention of possible cuts as if we an continue recklessly spending....

Unrelated but these people always remind me of someone I know who seemingly hasn't worked in forever, always complains about everything (money, their car, their house, no job prospects) but is now going on about how they can't wait for their tax refund so they can get a new tatoo.

Putting that aside, ultimately the costs for all this will start to hit the middle and lower middle classes in the form of higher taxes. Already in my state they are proposing raising income tax, gas tax, possibly a mileage tax, additional tolls, as well as other fee increases...guessing that this will also occur at the federal level. Only then will people possibly start to realize we can't continue down this path and decide it might be time to take a harder look at the books.

But until this starts to hit the true middle class and lower middle class expect the bulk of the electorate to continue to not care about how things get funded, they will continue to go on in their blissful ignorance and crow on about how they just want the issues to go away.