Republicans retreat on debt limit stance

[Mxylplyx]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/u...o-lift-debt-ceiling-for-3-months.html?hp&_r=0

It looks like House Republicans are starting to realize they have created a no-win situation for themselves regarding the debt ceiling increase. I think Obama has been quite firm on his position that he will not negotiate regarding the increase, and given the beating the Republicans took in the polls after their last attempt to use it as leverage, I'm surprised the House Republicans were even willing to entertain that idea again. Also, with the upcoming inauguration and state of the union address, Obama was in a much better position to make his case to the public on a big stage, and frankly the line that the Republicans are holding the US economy hostage to try and get their way rings quite true. It's akin to holding a gun to your own child's head as a negotiating ploy, using your own lunacy as leverage. This fiscal "crisis" is purely a manufactured political crisis created and perpetuated by the Republicans party, and it has won them nothing but a beating in the last election. I'm hoping this signifies a steady retreat back towards sanity for the Republican party. Obama has always appeared quite willing to negotiate, often times to a fault, if he has a willing partner. It's about time Republicans sit at the table and work out a deal.

 

[Genx87]

I think they should just drop the debt ceiling anyways. It only served the purpose of reminding people we passed it again. Clearly we have no intention of stopping debt accumulation. Fight the democrats when it comes to new funding or renewed funding. They cant win by forcing us to only pay what we can generate with revenue by not authorizing the debt ceiling increase.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I think they should just drop the debt ceiling anyways. It only served the purpose of reminding people we passed it again. Clearly we have no intention of stopping debt accumulation. Fight the democrats when it comes to new funding or renewed funding. They cant win by forcing us to only pay what we can generate with revenue by not authorizing the debt ceiling increase.

Agreed.

Any time legislators attempt to pass laws intended to govern their own actions they always find a way around it when it becomes inconvenient. They should fight it out during normal legislative processes, and their only leverage should be the state of support in the electorate.

 

[rudder]

This fiscal "crisis" is purely a manufactured political crisis created and perpetuated by the Republicans party, and it has won them nothing but a beating in the last election.

So true. The federal government has plenty of money. No need to stop or even slow spending.

 

[Oldgamer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/u...o-lift-debt-ceiling-for-3-months.html?hp&_r=0

It looks like House Republicans are starting to realize they have created a no-win situation for themselves regarding the debt ceiling increase. I think Obama has been quite firm on his position that he will not negotiate regarding the increase, and given the beating the Republicans took in the polls after their last attempt to use it as leverage, I'm surprised the House Republicans were even willing to entertain that idea again. Also, with the upcoming inauguration and state of the union address, Obama was in a much better position to make his case to the public on a big stage, and frankly the line that the Republicans are holding the US economy hostage to try and get their way rings quite true. It's akin to holding a gun to your own child's head as a negotiating ploy, using your own lunacy as leverage. This fiscal "crisis" is purely a manufactured political crisis created and perpetuated by the Republicans party, and it has won them nothing but a beating in the last election. I'm hoping this signifies a steady retreat back towards sanity for the Republican party. Obama has always appeared quite willing to negotiate, often times to a fault, if he has a willing partner. It's about time Republicans sit at the table and work out a deal.

The Repubs have done a pretty good job of using misinformation of what the debt ceiling actually is, and I for one am tired of them creating a crisis each and every time standard stuff like the Debt Ceiling comes up. The Debt Ceiling does not mean spending increase, it means we are paying the bills from the past that have now come due.

They won't win if they keep up the way they have, and the 2014 Gubernatorial races will be in peril if they do. They also stand to lose 2016 presidential race if they keep this up.

 

[michal1980]

bunch of wimps. Who needs these kind of republicans in power. Nothing but rino's.

Oh we caved on taxes, we will fight on the debt ceiling.

Oh we caved on the debt ceiling, we will fight on...

oh thats right nothing.

 

[Anarchist420]

I'm not surprised since they never balanced the budget when they had the chance. If they still have a majority in the House (I don't know whether they do) they could still balance the budget.

 

[dank69]

And everytime the Republicans start acting sensibly they will be accused of being RINOs. Win-win for Democrats.

 

[michal1980]

And everytime the Republicans start acting sensibly they will be accused of being RINOs. Win-win for Democrats.

Nothing sensible about this.

Lets see,

They now folding on taxes, and the debt ceiling. Whats the point of them being in office, if they'll just rubber stamp obama?

Worthless Rino's, came out with their tails between the legs 2 weeks ago saying they'll fight on the debt ceiling, and then what? oh no, sorry, not going to fight now.

worthless.

 

[Mxylplyx]

bunch of wimps. Who needs these kind of republicans in power. Nothing but rino's.

Oh we caved on taxes, we will fight on the debt ceiling.

Oh we caved on the debt ceiling, we will fight on...

oh thats right nothing.

You win legislative battles when you have a mandate to do so. Republicans are trying to win major legislation without the political capital to spend, so they are manufacturing crises out of thin air to try and use as leverage. In what was the normal legislative process, you give and take to try and achieve as much of your political objectives as possible. Republicans for some reason seem to think they can do all the taking and none of the giving, and it has cost them dearly.

Were you not paying attention in the last election? The tea party is in shambles, and the party is in disarray. They have no choice but to "cave", because they have created untenable negotiating positions for themselves. Another legislative session of this lunacy and they will lose whatever power they still have.

 

[michal1980]

You win legislative battles when you have a mandate to do so. Republicans are trying to win major legislation without the political capital to spend, so they are manufacturing crises out of thin air to try and use as leverage. In what was the normal legislative process, you give and take to try and achieve as much of your political objectives as possible. Republicans for some reason seem to think they can do all the taking and none of the giving, and it has cost them dearly.

Were you not paying attention in the last election? The tea party is in shambles, and the party is in disarray. They have no choice but to "cave", because they have created untenable negotiating positions for themselves. Another legislative session of this lunacy and they will lose whatever power they still have.

The more they cave, the more votes they'll lose.

I'm not going to vote for two faced liars. I'd rather have the honestly socialist liberal in office, then a republican that says they'll cut spending and never does. At least with the socialist liberal I know where they stand.


Futhermore, please show me where the republicans have taken anything?

Health care? Nope, lost that.
Taxes, Nope lost that. Debt,
Nope losing that.

Obama 3
republicans 0.

And the lmsm and liberals like you will continue this lie that republicans are somehow stopping obama. Obama is steam rolling them.

 

[Oldgamer]

You win legislative battles when you have a mandate to do so. Republicans are trying to win major legislation without the political capital to spend, so they are manufacturing crises out of thin air to try and use as leverage. In what was the normal legislative process, you give and take to try and achieve as much of your political objectives as possible. Republicans for some reason seem to think they can do all the taking and none of the giving, and it has cost them dearly.

Were you not paying attention in the last election? The tea party is in shambles, and the party is in disarray. They have no choice but to "cave", because they have created untenable negotiating positions for themselves. Another legislative session of this lunacy and they will lose whatever power they still have.

^^
This...

 

[fskimospy]

It really tells you how far off the deep end the Republican base is when they are enraged that Republican officials seem reluctant to crash the world economy.

 

[michal1980]

It really tells you how far off the deep end the Republican base is when they are enraged that Republican officials seem reluctant to crash the world economy.

thats nothing but a lie. the world economy would not have crashed. democratic fear mongering.

 

[Ryan]

thats nothing but a lie. the world economy would not have crashed. democratic fear mongering.

Oh sorry....just OUR economy....dragging down everyone else.

 

[Ryan]

The more they cave, the more votes they'll lose.

I'm not going to vote for two faced liars. I'd rather have the honestly socialist liberal in office, then a republican that says they'll cut spending and never does. At least with the socialist liberal I know where they stand.


Futhermore, please show me where the republicans have taken anything?

Health care? Nope, lost that.
Taxes, Nope lost that. Debt,
Nope losing that.

Obama 3
republicans 0.

And the lmsm and liberals like you will continue this lie that republicans are somehow stopping obama. Obama is steam rolling them.

Imagine what healthcare reform would have been like if Republicans had not protested as much? We would of most likely had a public option.
Imagine how low the tax increase cutoff would have been without Republican protest? You fail to acknowledge that Obama did not get his wish of it being at $250K.

Republicans got something alright.....just not everything they wanted. I don't expect a partisan hack like you to ever admit that though......

 

[Mxylplyx]

The more they cave, the more votes they'll lose.

I'm not going to vote for two faced liars. I'd rather have the honestly socialist liberal in office, then a republican that says they'll cut spending and never does. At least with the socialist liberal I know where they stand.


Futhermore, please show me where the republicans have taken anything?

Health care? Nope, lost that.
Taxes, Nope lost that. Debt,
Nope losing that.

Obama 3
republicans 0.

And the lmsm and liberals like you will continue this lie that republicans are somehow stopping obama. Obama is steam rolling them.

Have you ever stopped and considered whether a politician or party is at all capable of delivering on it's promises before voting for them? Anyone at all half way educated on the political landscape in Washington knows that Republicans have made promises they cant possibly deliver. It's fine to have an ideal stated in your party platform that your party aspires to achieve over the long term, such as the democratic party eventually wanting an economy fueled entirely by alternative energy, yet you dont see the democrats trying to shut down the entire oil industry with a single bill. Republicans on the other hand tell their electorate that they are going to completely transform medicare, cut taxes on everyone, and balance a trillion dollar deficit in a single legislative term while they dont have the presidency and only have one house of congress and people are stupid enough to believe it. I'm guessing you are one of them.

 

[ivwshane]

They haven't retreated at all, they are simply holding off for three months when it's more politically advantageous for them.

Nothing has changed. The party that represents the radical right still represents the radical right.

 

[michal1980]

Have you ever stopped and considered whether a politician or party is at all capable of delivering on it's promises before voting for them? Anyone at all half way educated on the political landscape in Washington knows that Republicans have made promises they cant possibly deliver. It's fine to have an ideal stated in your party platform that your party aspires to achieve over the long term, such as the democratic party eventually wanting an economy fueled entirely by alternative energy, yet you dont see the democrats trying to shut down the entire oil industry with a single bill. Republicans on the other hand tell their electorate that they are going to completely transform medicare, cut taxes on everyone, and balance a trillion dollar deficit in a single legislative term while they dont have the presidency and only have one house of congress and people are stupid enough to believe it. I'm guessing you are one of them.

republicans delivered nothing in the past 4+ years. failure after failure after failure. folding over like wet noodles to obama. Out maneuvered at every move. Making claims that now they will fight, then a day or two later completely backing down.

Not only in legislation but in leaderships & elections.

 

[sunzt]

republicans delivered nothing in the past 4+ years. failure after failure after failure. folding over like wet noodles to obama. Out maneuvered at every move. Making claims that now they will fight, then a day or two later completely backing down.

Not only in legislation but in leaderships & elections.

They only have themselves to blame.

They had the best leverage and position during the first debt ceiling debate and could have discretionary spending cuts, entitlement cuts, future tax reform votes, and most of they cuts the asked for. However, they didn't want to increase tax on the wealthy in even a 1:10 ratio.... They are just really bad negotiators.

 

[Phokus]

The more they cave, the more votes they'll lose.

I'm not going to vote for two faced liars. I'd rather have the honestly socialist liberal in office, then a republican that says they'll cut spending and never does. At least with the socialist liberal I know where they stand.


Futhermore, please show me where the republicans have taken anything?

Health care? Nope, lost that.
Taxes, Nope lost that. Debt,
Nope losing that.

Obama 3
republicans 0.

And the lmsm and liberals like you will continue this lie that republicans are somehow stopping obama. Obama is steam rolling them.

Are you insane? The REPUBLICAN healthcare plan got passed, that's not the plan liberals wanted. Same with taxes.

 

[michal1980]

They haven't retreated at all, they are simply holding off for three months when it's more politically advantageous for them.

Nothing has changed. The party that represents the radical right still represents the radical right.

Nope, they folded. full retreat. Just look at the history. Last year on the debt ceiling, they got nothing. This year on taxes they got nothing. Two weeks ago they promised a fight on spending only to fold. Whats going to change between now and april that will change their position? nothing.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm in favor of fighting this out during the budget negotiations. Debt limit is the wrong approach.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Nope, they folded. full retreat. Just look at the history. Last year on the debt ceiling, they got nothing. This year on taxes they got nothing. Two weeks ago they promised a fight on spending only to fold. Whats going to change between now and april that will change their position? nothing.

Your supposition that Republicans folded, as if it's merely a matter of backbone or resolve, is based on a simpletons view that the 2 sides showed up to the table with equal standing, ie you completely disregard the strength of their negotiating position which were established over the course of months and years before they even showed up at the table. Did the Japanese officials who surrendered on behalf of Japan on the USS Missouri "cave" that day? No, they were defeated well before that. Were there hard liners among the Japanese who insisted that Japan continue the fight? Absolutely, but I'm sure you agree that they are merely naive nut jobs consumed by nationalism and devoid of reason.

The Republicans just got soundly thumped in the general election, and their numbers slipped in both houses. Polls show that many of their positions are on the wrong side of the electorate, and polling shows that they were already positioned to be blamed for any fallout from failure to increase the debt limit. They have correctly realized that if they don't tactically retreat from some of their hard line positions they are going to get thumped again in the next election, at which point the Democrats might gain full control in Washington, and I'm sure you dont want that, right?

 

[michal1980]

Your supposition that Republicans folded, as if it's merely a matter of backbone or resolve, is based on a simpletons view that the 2 sides showed up to the table with equal standing, ie you completely disregard the strength of their negotiating position which were established over the course of months and years before they even showed up at the table. Did the Japanese officials who surrendered on behalf of Japan on the USS Missouri "cave" that day? No, they were defeated well before that. Were there hard liners among the Japanese who insisted that Japan continue the fight? Absolutely, but I'm sure you agree that they are merely naive nut jobs consumed by nationalism and devoid of reason.

The Republicans just got soundly thumped in the general election, and their numbers slipped in both houses. Polls show that many of their positions are on the wrong side of the electorate, and polling shows that they were already positioned to be blamed for any fallout from failure to increase the debt limit. They have correctly realized that if they don't tactically retreat from some of their hard line positions they are going to get thumped again in the next election, at which point the Democrats might gain full control in Washington, and I'm sure you dont want that, right?

I'd rather Dems run everything. Then, and only then might the MSM finally stop blaming republicans for everything, might wake up the voters too, show them what nutcases the left has.

VS having the republicans accomplish nothing, and get the blame for everything.