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Republicans in 18 states going full Bannon - possible protest laws

Thebobo

Lifer
Sigh, don't we have serious problems like infrastructure to take care off?

Wash Post Article

Also look at the article and see what under the post logo, they seem serious.

imrs.php
 
The Arizona story is fake news and does basically nothing that you can't already find in our federal code. Knowing WaPo's history, I'd imagine that many of those others are similar deals. "Certain protest tactics", lmao. Kind of like child rape is a "certain sexual expression".

EDIT:

Arizona’s bill, introduced this week, would open up protests to anti-racketeering legislation, targeting protesters with the same laws used to combat organized crime syndicates. It would also allow police to seize the assets of anyone involved in a protest that at some point becomes violent. It recently passed the state Senate on a party-line vote and is now before the House.

This is a literal lie. It does not target anyone at a protest that becomes violent. It targets anyone that attends a protest with knowledge and support of criminal acts to be carried out.

A bill under consideration in Colorado would strengthen penalties for “tampering” with oil and gas equipment. It’s intended to prevent activists from shutting off pipelines, a tactic that’s been used in other states.

Well gee, I guess they should just let people shut off pipelines if they so desire.

A bill introduced by Republican George Gainer in the Florida Senate this month would provide criminal penalties for protesters obstructing traffic and exempt drivers from liability if they struck a protester under certain conditions. It was filed this week, and if enacted would take force on July 1.

Good, obstructing traffic is illegal, and a person that unintentionally hits someone obstructing traffic should not be held liable.

A "Back the Badge" bill recently passed by the Georgia Senate increases penalties for blocking "any highway, street, sidewalk or other public passage." The bill is sponsored by six Republican senators.

This one is maybe a bit ambiguous since it refers to said blocking as "inconveniencing" and puts a lot of power in officers' judgment. This one may be legitimately bad.

A bill supported by nine Republican sponsors would make protesters who intentionally block highways subject to felony charges and up to five years in prison. The bill’s lead sponsor told the Des Moines Register it was introduced in response to a November incident in which a protest Trump shut down part of Interstate 80 in Iowa.

A bit excessive possibly since it's not referring to blocking that causes explicit hazard, but whatever.

An Indiana Senate committee recently toned down a bill that would have allowed police to shut down highway protests using “any means necessary.” The current version allows police to issue fines for such behavior.

Overly vague bill corrected. Life goes on.

A Michigan bill voted on late last year would have increased fines for certain “mass picketing” behavior, and made it easier for courts to shut down such demonstrations.

No link to the bill. If it does attack "mass picketing" in general, that sounds blatantly unconstitutional. If it refers to "mass picketing" that becomes violent or obstructs traffic illegally, good.

Bills under consideration in Minnesota would increase fines for protesters blocking highways and airports. A separate measure before the legislature would make it possible for jurisdictions to charge protesters for the costs of policing the protests.

Good.

A Republican lawmaker has introduced legislation that would make it illegal for protesters to wear masks, robes or other disguises during protests deemed to be illegal.

Obviously intended to go after ANTIFA. Not sure about this one though, simply wearing a mask doesn't imply criminal behavior (see all the Guy Fawkes Anonymous fellows a decade back). Don't like it, but not sure that this is any different (let alone worse) than laws already prohibiting people from wearing gas masks or bullet proof vests.

A bill before the Mississippi legislature would make obstruction of traffic a felony punishable by a $10,000 fine and a five-year prison sentence.

Again, probably excessive but I have a hard time caring.

A North Carolina Republican has pledged to introduce legislation making it a crime to “threaten, intimidate or retaliate against” current or former state officials, in response to an incident involving the heckling of Gov. Pat McCrory. The Senator proposing the legislation, Dan Bishop, confirmed via email that he still intends to introduce the legislation, perhaps as early as next week, after consulting with potential co-sponsors.

Based on the context, this one sounds horrible and blatantly unconstitutional. North Carolina doesn't have such a good record on these things.

A number of North Dakota bills have been introduced in response to the long-standing protests there against the Dakota Access Pipeline. The measure that drew the most attention was a bill that would have removed penalties for motorists who strike protesters with their car in some circumstances. That bill failed to make it out of the House, but a number of other measures increasing penalties for certain types of protest action are advancing through the legislature.

See Georgia.

Inspired by pipeline protests in North Dakota, the Oklahoma legislature is considering a bill that would increase penalties for trespassing on certain pieces of “critical infrastructure” like pipelines and railways.

Good.

A novel piece of legislation in Oregon would require public community colleges and universities to expel any student convicted of participating in a violent riot.

Do laws like this exist for other criminal behaviors? Doesn't necessarily sound bad.

A Senate panel in South Dakota recently approved a bill that would increase penalties for certain acts of trespassing and blocking highways. It’s a response to pipeline protests in North Dakota, and to the potential for similar protests in South Dakota if the Keystone XL pipeline gets built.

Good.

A Tennessee Republican wants drivers to be protected from liability if they inadvertently strike a protester who is blocking a roadway.

Good.

A Virginia bill that would have increased penalties for people who refused to leave the scene of a riot or unlawful protest died in the state Senate last month. The bill had been requested by law enforcement.

Good.

Washington lawmakers are considering a bill to increase penalties for people blocking highways and railways, acts that the bill's sponsor has characterized as “economic terrorism.”

Like the others, making it a felony is probably excessive.

Overall, a few shady and bad laws that will hopefully not be passed, mostly fear-mongering as typical by WaPo.
 
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Didn't know you needed to be a lawyer to read fairly plain English.

The proposed Arizona statute def isn't plain English. It's not even very good Lawyerese. LEO can read it any way they want.

I think you underestimate the intimidation factor of racketeering statutes. First they take your shit. Then you have to fight to get it back even if the rap is completely bogus.
 
The proposed Arizona statute def isn't plain English. It's not even very good Lawyerese. LEO can read it any way they want.

I think you underestimate the intimidation factor of racketeering statutes. First they take your shit. Then you have to fight to get it back even if the rap is completely bogus.

Elaborate. What particular sections do you find ambiguous? Quote them precisely please. Here's the bill:

https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/SB1142/2017
 
Elaborate. What particular sections do you find ambiguous? Quote them precisely please. Here's the bill:

https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/SB1142/2017

Let's try a real world scenario between protesters & counter protesters. Shit talking ensues, with a lot of "Yeh, kick his ass!" flying every which way. Under the definitions provided, it's not even necessary for any violence to occur for the incident to be defined as riot & conspiracy, therefore subject to racketeering charges that can be arbitrarily assigned to one group or the other.
 
Let's try a real world scenario between protesters & counter protesters. Shit talking ensues, with a lot of "Yeh, kick his ass!" flying every which way. Under the definitions provided, it's not even necessary for any violence to occur for the incident to be defined as riot & conspiracy, therefore subject to racketeering charges that can be arbitrarily assigned to one group or the other.

There is always potential for abuse in arbitrary application of the law, unfortunate but I don't see what makes this bill special in that regard. The definition of conspiracy already lacked a requirement of violence/criminality/etc to occur, that's kind of the usual definition of the word as far as I'm aware. Just like if I conspire with an undercover FBI agent to create a bomb, they can arrest me before I even bring the materials to my place of bomb creation. Plotting to commit criminal actions is illegal.

The reason I imagine this law became necessary is that typically, rioting occurs spontaneously and does not involve conspiracy. Thanks to ANTIFA and their ilk, it's easy to organize online for the explicit purpose of committing riot. Hence, the definition of conspiracy needs to be expanded.
 
There is always potential for abuse in arbitrary application of the law, unfortunate but I don't see what makes this bill special in that regard. The definition of conspiracy already lacked a requirement of violence/criminality/etc to occur, that's kind of the usual definition of the word as far as I'm aware. Just like if I conspire with an undercover FBI agent to create a bomb, they can arrest me before I even bring the materials to my place of bomb creation. Plotting to commit criminal actions is illegal.

So what? That doesn't change the fact that they attempt to classify it as racketeering in order to implement civil forfeiture against alleged perps.

A.R.S. §13-2313 gives a judge a great deal of latitude in issuing civil liens and forfeiture orders. The Arizona Superior Court can issue a warrant to seize all your assets. Under A.R.S. §13-2314, damages can be “trebled” (i.e. tripled).

http://cantorcriminallawyers.com/white-collar-crimes/racketeering-rico-arizona/#

Actual conviction is not necessary for such forfeiture to occur.

Like I said- First they take your shit. They you have to fight to get it back.
 
So what? That doesn't change the fact that they attempt to classify it as racketeering in order to implement civil forfeiture against alleged perps.

http://cantorcriminallawyers.com/white-collar-crimes/racketeering-rico-arizona/#

Actual conviction is not necessary for such forfeiture to occur.

Like I said- First they take your shit. They you have to fight to get it back.

I'm not a fan of civil forfeiture either, but ultimately this bill would make merely one additional kind of crime, riot, applicable where dozens already were. It's still unrelated to the fact that the bill is not applicable to organizers of protests provided they were not consciously also engaging in actions supporting of riots.
 
I'm not a fan of civil forfeiture either, but ultimately this bill would make merely one additional kind of crime, riot, applicable where dozens already were. It's still unrelated to the fact that the bill is not applicable to organizers of protests provided they were not consciously also engaging in actions supporting of riots.

Lemme see here... You acknowledge that the statute can easily be abused & will have a chilling effect on protests in general but say it's no big deal to impose racketeering penalties when the alleged acts aren't racketeering in any normal sense of the word.
 
The Arizona story is fake news and does basically nothing that you can't already find in our federal code. Knowing WaPo's history, I'd imagine that many of those others are similar deals. "Certain protest tactics", lmao. Kind of like child rape is a "certain sexual expression".

EDIT:



This is a literal lie. It does not target anyone at a protest that becomes violent. It targets anyone that attends a protest with knowledge and support of criminal acts to be carried out.



Well gee, I guess they should just let people shut off pipelines if they so desire.



Good, obstructing traffic is illegal, and a person that unintentionally hits someone obstructing traffic should not be held liable.



This one is maybe a bit ambiguous since it refers to said blocking as "inconveniencing" and puts a lot of power in officers' judgment. This one may be legitimately bad.



A bit excessive possibly since it's not referring to blocking that causes explicit hazard, but whatever.



Overly vague bill corrected. Life goes on.



No link to the bill. If it does attack "mass picketing" in general, that sounds blatantly unconstitutional. If it refers to "mass picketing" that becomes violent or obstructs traffic illegally, good.



Good.



Obviously intended to go after ANTIFA. Not sure about this one though, simply wearing a mask doesn't imply criminal behavior (see all the Guy Fawkes Anonymous fellows a decade back). Don't like it, but not sure that this is any different (let alone worse) than laws already prohibiting people from wearing gas masks or bullet proof vests.



Again, probably excessive but I have a hard time caring.



Based on the context, this one sounds horrible and blatantly unconstitutional. North Carolina doesn't have such a good record on these things.



See Georgia.



Good.



Do laws like this exist for other criminal behaviors? Doesn't necessarily sound bad.



Good.



Good.



Good.



Like the others, making it a felony is probably excessive.

Overall, a few shady and bad laws that will hopefully not be passed, mostly fear-mongering as typical by WaPo.
Good stuff. I'm tired of violent rioters hiding behind the guise of legal protesters to disrupt, damage and destroy what they protest against.
 
Lemme see here... You acknowledge that the statute can easily be abused & will have a chilling effect on protests in general but say it's no big deal to impose racketeering penalties when the alleged acts aren't racketeering in any normal sense of the word.

I'm saying that civil forfeiture can be easily abused, not necessarily the other parts of this bill. If a peaceful BLM group begins a protest which ANTIFA then joins and turns destructive, I don't see how this law can be read to be applicable to the BLM protestors. And how is it not racketeering? Per the link you provided...

An “enterprise” under A.R.S. §13-2301 is “any corporation, partnership, association, labor union or other legal entity or any group of persons associated in fact although not a legal entity.” This charge targets the owner or leader of the syndicate who ordered lower level members to commit crimes.

ANTIFA is an organization that collectively plans criminal acts, in this case, rioting.
 
I'm not sure where all these paid protesters are to the point they are being paid so much they are 'professional' protesters are coming from. I haven't seen any evidence that paid protesters exist at all.

Where is this massive infrastructure to set up a payment system for tens and tens of thousands of protesters and then processing and paying them, all while remaining anonymous.

Or is this just something the right wing lunatics repeat enough and then it becomes fact just from doing so.
 
I'm not sure where all these paid protesters are to the point they are being paid so much they are 'professional' protesters are coming from. I haven't seen any evidence that paid protesters exist at all.

Where is this massive infrastructure to set up a payment system for tens and tens of thousands of protesters and then processing and paying them, all while remaining anonymous.

Or is this just something the right wing lunatics repeat enough and then it becomes fact just from doing so.

Not necessarily paid (and most likely not). Republicans that think every riot is a Soros-funded conspiracy are dumb, but groups like ANTIFA make rioting a regular hobby and they are very much real. The Arizona senator quoted said it accurately, "You now have a situation where you have full-time, quasi-professional agent-provocateurs that attempt to create public disorder". That's what ANTIFA is. Of course, WaPo, being fake news, attempts to conflate that with stupid shit Trump & co. say.
 
Wait.

You mean authoritarian governments are passing legislation that ambiguously ties someone exercising their free speech right to assemble, to the unrelated asshole with a face mask throwing molotov cocktails, in order to chill the use of free speech and the right to assemble?

No way!
 
Wait.

You mean authoritarian governments are passing legislation that ambiguously ties someone exercising their free speech right to assemble, to the unrelated asshole with a face mask throwing molotov cocktails, in order to chill the use of free speech and the right to assemble?

No way!

Quote the exact parts of legislation that tie those two things together.
 
Wait.

You mean authoritarian governments are passing legislation that ambiguously ties someone exercising their free speech right to assemble, to the unrelated asshole with a face mask throwing molotov cocktails, in order to chill the use of free speech and the right to assemble?

No way!

It's a funny old world.
 
Quote the exact parts of legislation that tie those two things together.
Here's the thing.

Ambiguous language is intentionally ambiguous, and yet you want "exact" wording that will clear the matter up.

Protip: the executive branch of local, city, state, and federal governments aren't carrying the exact wording of the statute, with state/federal AG guidance in their squad cars, perhaps post-it'ed to their riot gear.

They are trained to act now, and they don't worry about what some judge is going to do a 5 years down the line. They use the ambiguous language of a statute to act, now, to break up and delegitimize protest.

Unless you actually believe that big ol' gub'mint is super duper ultra mega competent at drafting legislation to address solve, and prevent problems.
 
Here's the thing.

Ambiguous language is intentionally ambiguous, and yet you want "exact" wording that will clear the matter up.

Protip: the executive branch of local, city, state, and federal governments aren't carrying the exact wording of the statute, with state/federal AG guidance in their squad cars, perhaps post-it'ed to their riot gear.

They are trained to act now, and they don't worry about what some judge is going to do a 5 years down the line. They use the ambiguous language of a statute to act, now, to break up and delegitimize protest.

Unless you actually believe that big ol' gub'mint is super duper ultra mega competent at drafting legislation to address solve, and prevent problems.

Which parts precisely do you find ambiguous? The law retains the majority of the original writing defining conspiracy and riot (changes in red), and does not appear ambiguous to me.

13-1003, conspiracy
A person commits conspiracy if, with the intent to promote or aid the commission of an offense, such person agrees with one or more persons that at least one of them or another person will engage in conduct constituting the offense and one of the parties commits an overt act in furtherance of the offense, except that an overt act shall not be required if the object of the conspiracy was to commit any felony on the person of another, or to commit an offense under section 13‑1508, 13‑1704, or 13‑2903.

13-2903, riot
A person commits riot if, with two or more other persons acting together, such person recklessly uses force or violence or threatens to use force or violence, if such threat is accompanied by immediate power of execution, which either disturbs the public peace or results in damage to the property of another person.
 
I'm saying that civil forfeiture can be easily abused, not necessarily the other parts of this bill. If a peaceful BLM group begins a protest which ANTIFA then joins and turns destructive, I don't see how this law can be read to be applicable to the BLM protestors. And how is it not racketeering? Per the link you provided...



ANTIFA is an organization that collectively plans criminal acts, in this case, rioting.

Again, so what? What Antifa does is not racketeering. If it is, then Mormon polygamy & the Bundy militia are also racketeering as is basically any conspiracy to break the law.
 
Again, so what? What Antifa does is not racketeering. If it is, then Mormon polygamy & the Bundy militia are also racketeering as is basically any conspiracy to break the law.

Why not? Violence and premeditated rioting by a collective group sound worthy of the label to me. Apparently the Supreme Court has already ruled that anti-abortion groups can be charged under RICO statutes for blocking access to clinics so it's not like using this kind of law in response to "protests" is unprecedented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organization_for_Women_v._Scheidler

ANTIFA is an overt criminal organization.
 
"which either disturbs the public peace or results in damage to the property of another person."

Well distrubs the public peace can be very easily used vaguely.... you could say the tea party protestors disturbed the peace.
 
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