Republicans: Can you admit your party was wrong in attacks on Obama about Bill Ayers?

[Craig234]

These aren't the Republicans of my youth, at all, but rather the bastard children of what was the ultra-right 40 years ago.

I don't even give them that.

The ultra-right 40 years ago was a group who was very misguided and supported terrible things - 'ends justify the means' types.

But they were facing a 'real' global conflict, with a terrible system of the Soviets and Maoists.

The threat of those systems spreading was greatly exaggerated and we were often warmongers, but they were real and legitimate threats to the world.

The fact our ultra-right group was nuts, often supporting things like 'a first nuclear strike', and war in 'domino' places and even assassinations and terrorism, the 'paranoid style in American politics' as it was then called by one commentator, was bad. But it was an ideological and hysterical group about a real threat, really concerned about 'the freedom of the world' in light of the threat to the world not that long before in WWII. The USSR *looked* like a huge global danger to them.

The people today are simply ignorant and manipulated by the special interests, primarly of great wealth and 'American hegemony' - global dominance and military spending.

The views might be somewhat similar, but I see today's group on the right as especially sluggish - you could at least appeal to morals and the well being of citizens more back then, while today, the people are just amoral most of the time, parroting slogans and ideology, laughing at the harm they cause, not having much of a clue.

You can't debate what's best for the peope because they arne't after that - just Orwellian twisting of words like 'freedom' meaning 'freedom of billionares to screw society'.

There is more information availaboe for Americans today than ever before - that wasn't the case then with very limited media, the three channels, newpapers, a few magazines.

Today there's the MSNBC lineup, hundreds of great books all the time like never before, and so much more, see my sig - they just don't bother and watch Fox if even that.

Ronald Reagan during JFK was a corrupt sellout fighting Medicare - but at least his pitch was that he supported *a* program for medical care for people, just not that one.

Save234

 

[Jhhnn]

😀 Caution: Ownage in progress.

Too bad the Chicago Annenberg Challenge was to pry loose some tax money and not, say, to make Chicago's schools suck less. Then he could have been a hero AND useful.

Utterly inaccurate. Educate yourself-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge

2/3 of the money came from private sources.

 

[Jhhnn]

So in other words it was not false attribution and I did have an argument of substance about Bill Ayers the terrorist being made into a hero by the leftist/liberal Democrats in Chicago that hand out their citizen of the year awards?

His work at the Annenberg Challenge put nearly $150M into Chicago schools that wouldn't have been there otherwise. In that, he earned his accolades in spite of his past. It's not like he received the award on the basis of being a former radical.

 

[werepossum]

Utterly inaccurate. Educate yourself-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge

2/3 of the money came from private sources.

I stand corrected. The purpose of the Chicago Annenburg Challenge was to pry out a LOT of money, some of which was tax money. As to making Chicago's schools suck less:

An August 2003 final technical report of the Chicago Annenberg Research Project by the Consortium on Chicago School Research said that while "student achievement improved across Annenberg Challenge schools as it did across the Chicago Public School system as a whole, results suggest that among the schools it supported, the Challenge had little impact on school improvement and student outcomes, with no statistically significant differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain, classroom behavior, student self-efficacy, and social competence."[59] "Breakthrough Schools," which received special financial and professional support from the Challenge between 1999–2001, a time during which the Challenge began withdrawing funds from other schools, "began to develop in ways that distinguished them from other Annenberg schools and sustained or strengthened aspects of teacher professional community school leadership, and relational trust while other Annenberg schools did not."[59]

 

[Matt1970]

False premises lead to false conclusions, although I doubt you can possibly understand that the premise of Ayers being Anti-American is false.

You guys seriously need to drop trying to defend that piece of shit. Trying to paint Ayers in a good light is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. And ya, it is un-American to go around setting off bombs on US soil. Get back to me when you see even 1% of us doing that.

 

[Matt1970]

I don't even give them that.

There is more information availaboe for Americans today than ever before - that wasn't the case then with very limited media, the three channels, newpapers, a few magazines.

Today there's the MSNBC lineup, hundreds of great books all the time like never before, and so much more, see my sig - they just don't bother and watch Fox if even that.

You couldn't find more suitable evidence of a political hack with the largest pair of blinders known to man.

 

[QuantumPion]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlN2t0oERHk&feature=related

 

[NeoV]

but rather that there is little doubt that BA infulenced BHO regarding such things

that's just moronic and paranoid


Hey, I know, let's bring up Obama's church, and talk about the spawn of Satan that was leading that church....

 

[werepossum]

that's just moronic and paranoid


Hey, I know, let's bring up Obama's church, and talk about the spawn of Satan that was leading that church....

Because everyone knows that one's associations are entirely random, are in no way connected with one's own values, and are totally beyond one's control even if there were some way to tell something about one's associates - which clearly, there is not and will never be.

Unless of course one is associated with Halliburton - but do I really even need to say that?

 

[GeezerMan]

I can see it now.."It's Jefferson, Adams, and Ayers too...."

 

[Matt1970]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlN2t0oERHk&feature=related

Occupy from the 70's.

 

[Jhhnn]

I stand corrected. The purpose of the Chicago Annenburg Challenge was to pry out a LOT of money, some of which was tax money. As to making Chicago's schools suck less:

The outcome, disputable either way, isn't what matters, but rather Ayer's efforts to create positive outcome.

You can't always get what you want.

 

[boomerang]

Remember this thread everyone. People can change, Bill Ayers is a good man. And there's no guilt by association, you can't blame Obama for what Ayers did.

But goddamit, Ron Paul is a racist because someone wrote a flyer with racists views and put Paul's name on it 30 years ago.


Democrats are so pathetic.

I was looking for a place to post this and in light of your comments, I think I'll put it here. This is truly an amazing thread. Leftists can justify defending pretty much anyone or anything. While they high five each other over perceived victories in discussions such as these, what is happening in the background that they seem to be oblivious to is that they have marginalized themselves down to the point of near insignificance. That may be going too far - they've succeeded in making themselves easy to ignore.

The End of Obama Liberalism as an Intellectual Movement​

​

The article is a quick read but with lots of links for background material.

I'll quote the last two paragraphs.

Liberalism used to be a movement capable of producing ideas that could be debated both publicly and in the intellectual marketplace. Though conservatives disagreed with them, liberal ideas had to be contended with through thoughtful rebuttals produced by those, in the words of the historian Gary Nash, who "engaged in study, reflection, and speculation; purveyors of ideas." Conservatives had to explain why our path was a better way forward than the left's. However, today's liberal movement offers no direction, just resistance. Modern liberals have become defined by this picture: empty chairs in a budget committee meeting that they control. Admittedly, their focus is solely on policy aimed at stirring controversy and allowing them to act as demagogues. President Obama and the current Democratic leadership have ushered in the end of liberalism as an intellectual movement because the ideas they offer are based more empty rhetoric than smart policy.​

Conservatives must be wary and refuse to be pulled down into their realm of liberal inanity, even if it can be fairly funny to mock them. After all, the true unemployment rate is still in double digits and in the five minutes that it took to read this article the United States of America added 15 million dollars to the debt as we race towards a crisis. Our current problems require thoughtful solutions.​

 

[Craig234]

I was looking for a place to post this and in light of your comments, I think I'll put it here.

My thread did nothing to deserve that abuse.

This is truly an amazing thread. Leftists can justify defending pretty much anyone or anything.

Yes, leftists justify death squads and torture we pay and train murderers to do, leftists justify the worst sorts of opposition to democracy overseas to install right-wing tyrants, leftists justify slashing spending on education and other needs of people while wasting the nation's treasure on a corrupt military industry and other corrupt, powerful groups, leftists justify stripping the country of regulatory protections, removing the laws and allowing the banks to steal the nation's wealth, leftists justify the worse war on all Americans except the top sliver of 1% shifting more wealth to the top than in American history for 30 years, giving nothing to American workers as they grow the economy more than double, justify changing the laws to deny the right to vote to millions in a war on democracy, justify denying equal rights to gays in order to pander to bigots for votes, justify policies turning the nation into a plutocracy and putting the nation's economy at risk of a crash - again after allowing the crash of 2008, justify selling regulatory positions and the right to write new laws to the highest bidders, pushing radical judges who serve a far right-wing ideological agenda, to destroy democratic government and hand power to the wealthy, allowing them to spend unlimited money in our elections.

If by left, you mean 'Republicans', the left has a lot to justify - passing the civil rights bills ending segregation, slashing elder poverty and poverty overall, growing the economy at the highest levels, lowering unemployment to the lowest levels, increasing healthcare for all Americans, increasing the prosperity for all Americans, the Democrats can justify that.

While they high five each other over perceived victories in discussions such as these, what is happening in the background that they seem to be oblivious to is that they have marginalized themselves down to the point of near insignificance. That may be going too far - they've succeeded in making themselves easy to ignore.

The End of Obama Liberalism as an Intellectual Movement​

​

The article is a quick read but with lots of links for background material.

I'll quote the last two paragraphs.

By taking the presidency back from Republicans, taking the Senate back from Republicans, that doesn't quite fit your lie.

If a victory of the corrupt is something you want to brag about, that's up to you, as with the 2010 elections giving the corrupt victories in the House and state governments.

Corrupt forces fuled by corrupt money, dancing to the strings of interests like the Kochs trying to evade their thousands of pollution violations, the ALEC legislative agenda.

You're an oblivious minion of evil.

Save234

 

[Matt1970]

My thread did nothing to deserve that abuse.

LOL

 

[Moonbeam]

werepossum: Obama's association with Bill Ayers was primarily Ayers hosting a fund raiser for Obama. For purposes of this discussion, assume that "fund" means money, that "raiser" means an event to gather that money, and that "for Obama" means, um, that the money raised would be given to Obama for use in advancing his political career. I really don't know how to make that any more clear, but in Moonie-speak:

Obama had a bad case of self-hate. Bill Ayers was experienced in transferring self-hate to others, primarily policemen. So Obama prevailed upon Bill Ayers to gather unto him others who were experiencing self hate and alleviate their self-hate by alleviating some of their money, thereby raising their individual PDQs (progressive caring quotient) and incidentally distributing to them small fragments of hot dogs attractively arrayed on crackers. Bill Ayers then took that money, representing a lack of self worth, and gave it unto Obama, that Obama could see himself on the mass media and slickly produced fliers and brochures, and by doing so attain a Position of Power by which he could do good works and thereby erase his own self-hate.

Good times, self love and cocktail wieners were had by all. Well, all who can overlook that Bill Ayers once tried to kill policemen and destroy others' property because his self-hate centered on killing other people and breaking their things. But that's okay 'cause he's a swell guy who would only murder innocent people for a good cause.


You left out the most important part. The most important part of the quote is “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents. 'Cause it's for a good cause.”[/QUOTE]

I find this funny. Obama has a degree from Harvard as does Romney. Romney went into business and earned billions. Obama went into community organizing. What is the aim of each, not what would be your aim because you have already projected your understanding of a worthwhile aim onto Obama unconsciously, so I already understand that you are biased and believe that money is the only motivator of value. No, an ordinary mind, not one affected with the conservative brain defect, would say that a community organizer goes into community organizing because he wants to help community and a business man goes into business to earn money. An ordinary healthy mind can do this because it can see there is no money in community organizing and a lot of money is to be had on Wall Street.

Whatever bull shit you the intellect used by your brain defect to rationalize with is just that, bull shit.

When a person goes into community organizing or goes into business out of college tells you something about where their soul is. We see also folk that will go into pure research rather than industry because they would rather satisfy a passion other than making money.

The conservative brain defect is profoundly debilitating to thinking. I pointed out one simple fact to you and you start screaming Bill Ayres Bill Ayres Bill Ayres.

All this goes back to the fact that for you truth is in your stomach. You crapped in your diaper and had the crap shamed out of you and as an adult can only shout Bill Ayres, he's the one who crapped in his diaper. See him, see how he stinks. I smell good, I got potty trained. Mommy now loves me. And all good children hate Bill Ayers. We collect in mighty witch hunts to cull Bill Ayers from our herd of upstanding citizens, us white folk with all of the money.

 

[Matt1970]

werepossum: Obama's association with Bill Ayers was primarily Ayers hosting a fund raiser for Obama. For purposes of this discussion, assume that "fund" means money, that "raiser" means an event to gather that money, and that "for Obama" means, um, that the money raised would be given to Obama for use in advancing his political career. I really don't know how to make that any more clear, but in Moonie-speak:

Obama had a bad case of self-hate. Bill Ayers was experienced in transferring self-hate to others, primarily policemen. So Obama prevailed upon Bill Ayers to gather unto him others who were experiencing self hate and alleviate their self-hate by alleviating some of their money, thereby raising their individual PDQs (progressive caring quotient) and incidentally distributing to them small fragments of hot dogs attractively arrayed on crackers. Bill Ayers then took that money, representing a lack of self worth, and gave it unto Obama, that Obama could see himself on the mass media and slickly produced fliers and brochures, and by doing so attain a Position of Power by which he could do good works and thereby erase his own self-hate.

Good times, self love and cocktail wieners were had by all. Well, all who can overlook that Bill Ayers once tried to kill policemen and destroy others' property because his self-hate centered on killing other people and breaking their things. But that's okay 'cause he's a swell guy who would only murder innocent people for a good cause.


You left out the most important part. The most important part of the quote is “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents. 'Cause it's for a good cause.

I find this funny. Obama has a degree from Harvard as does Romney. Romney went into business and earned billions. Obama went into community organizing. What is the aim of each, not what would be your aim because you have already projected your understanding of a worthwhile aim onto Obama unconsciously, so I already understand that you are biased and believe that money is the only motivator of value. No, an ordinary mind, not one affected with the conservative brain defect, would say that a community organizer goes into community organizing because he wants to help community and a business man goes into business to earn money. An ordinary healthy mind can do this because it can see there is no money in community organizing and a lot of money is to be had on Wall Street.

Whatever bull shit you the intellect used by your brain defect to rationalize with is just that, bull shit.

When a person goes into community organizing or goes into business out of college tells you something about where their soul is. We see also folk that will go into pure research rather than industry because they would rather satisfy a passion other than making money.

The conservative brain defect is profoundly debilitating to thinking. I pointed out one simple fact to you and you start screaming Bill Ayres Bill Ayres Bill Ayres.

All this goes back to the fact that for you truth is in your stomach. You crapped in your diaper and had the crap shamed out of you and as an adult can only shout Bill Ayres, he's the one who crapped in his diaper. See him, see how he stinks. I smell good, I got potty trained. Mommy now loves me. And all good children hate Bill Ayers. We collect in mighty witch hunts to cull Bill Ayers from our herd of upstanding citizens, us white folk with all of the money.

There is your Brain Defect. Obama spent much more time as University Lecturer for which he was handsomly rewarded but your brain defect madates you skip that fact and focus on his 3 years in "community service" (if you want to call being a trial lawyer for Acorn community service) rather than his 12 years as lecturer 8 of which a senior lecturer.

 

[Jhhnn]

There is your Brain Defect. Obama spent much more time as University Lecturer for which he was handsomly rewarded but your brain defect madates you skip that fact and focus on his 3 years in "community service" (if you want to call being a trial lawyer for Acorn community service) rather than his 12 years as lecturer 8 of which a senior lecturer.

Handsomely rewarded as compared to... Mitt's $250M net worth, & $2M/mo passive income...

Somebody isn't thinking straight, and it's not Moonbeam...

 

[Matt1970]

Handsomely rewarded as compared to... Mitt's $250M net worth, & $2M/mo passive income...

Somebody isn't thinking straight, and it's not Moonbeam...

Sorry if anyone making less that Romney is chump change for Liberals like yourself with bigger fish to fry. Getting Millions on the Lecture Circuit is a HUGE difference from community service. Thanks for trying though. Your efforts will be noted.

 

[GeezerMan]

what a thread. Bill Ayers, a true patriotic American. Obama, the concerned community organizer ( worth less than Romney, but still worth millions.) I guess we will now hear how Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are just humble organizers themselves...

 

[DucatiMonster696]

What I've learned from this thread so far is that apparently you can get conservatives to foam at the mouth by saying nice things about Bill Ayers.

And you can get liberals to defend a unrepentant man guilty of instigating murderous acts of terrorism on US soil and then have liberals make excuses for why anyone would want to be in the same room with the guy.

 

[Bowfinger]

Sorry if anyone making less that Romney is chump change for Liberals like yourself with bigger fish to fry. Getting Millions on the Lecture Circuit is a HUGE difference from community service. Thanks for trying though. Your efforts will be noted.

You really should make some effort to know what you're talking about before shooting off your mouth. Being a "University Lecturer" has not a frakking thing to do with making "Millions on the Lecture Circuit". It's about Obama being a non-tenured professor at the University of Chicago Law School, where he taught Constitutional law classes. It wasn't a full-time, tenured staff position, so UC calls it Lecturer. Further, according to OpenSecrets.org, Obama's net worth in 2004, his final year as "Senior Lecturer", was somewhere between $200K and $400K. That's a whole different world than Romney's tens of millions (or whatever he'd looted by then).

In short, your post was nothing more than your usual knee-jerk compulsion to attack Obama, whether you have any basis for doing so or not. MB was absolutely, obviously correct: Obama and Romney chose very different career paths after graduation, with Romney focused on money while Obama pursued more noble goals. Your attempted spin was ignorant nonsense. Thanks for trying though. You efforts have been amusing.

You couldn't find more suitable evidence of a political hack with the largest pair of blinders known to man.

The key is picking the right tool for the right job. You should try a mirror instead.

 

[Jhhnn]

Sorry if anyone making less that Romney is chump change for Liberals like yourself with bigger fish to fry. Getting Millions on the Lecture Circuit is a HUGE difference from community service. Thanks for trying though. Your efforts will be noted.

Millions? Really? Obviously, you have sources for that, otherwise you'd just be talking trash, right?

 

[Matt1970]

You really should make some effort to know what you're talking about before shooting off your mouth. Being a "University Lecturer" has not a frakking thing to do with making "Millions on the Lecture Circuit". It's about Obama being a non-tenured professor at the University of Chicago Law School, where he taught Constitutional law classes. It wasn't a full-time, tenured staff position, so UC calls it Lecturer. Further, according to OpenSecrets.org, Obama's net worth in 2004, his final year as "Senior Lecturer", was somewhere between $200K and $400K. That's a whole different world than Romney's tens of millions (or whatever he'd looted by then).

In short, your post was nothing more than your usual knee-jerk compulsion to attack Obama, whether you have any basis for doing so or not. MB was absolutely, obviously correct: Obama and Romney chose very different career paths after graduation, with Romney focused on money while Obama pursued more noble goals. Your attempted spin was ignorant nonsense. Thanks for trying though. You efforts have been amusing.



The key is picking the right tool for the right job. You should try a mirror instead.

Which is an astrinomical amount higher than a true cummunity service worker as is what Moonbeam suggested Obama was.

 

[Bowfinger]

Which is an astrinomical amount higher than a true cummunity service worker as is what Moonbeam suggested Obama was.

I am completely unsurprised that you did not show even the modest level of integrity to acknowledge you were unquestionably wrong. It's so typical.

Dismissed. You have nothing worthwhile to offer.