Reporting to work at a specific time

[Nerva]

i am suppose to get in at 9, but today i got in at 9:40. no one cares because i was here until 3 last night.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: pontifex
i'd say its a big problem, especially in places that i have worked previously. coming in late is not looked well upon. If you come in late here, you get like a violation point. once you get so many points, you are fired. the points do reset every year though.

i would have them change their schedule to fit the time they are coming in and leaving. if they still come in late after that, i would get rid of them.

WORST. SYSTEM. EVAR.

this is for hourly workers only though. you can get violation points for other things too. but i can't really blame them. they need reliable people to be here and do the job. If you have a good excuse, the point can be removed, if you want the job, follow the rules and be here when you are supposed to. I would think any employer would feel the same way.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: kranky
Thought it was clear in the OP, but apparently not. They each work on their own projects. Interaction with others is necessary but not relevant to this issue - they have enough time to do that.

On the issue of meeting required deadlines: they are students working on projects far more complex than the typical school assignment or term project. I found it is unrealistic to set deadlines on these types of assignments. They don't have the experience to estimate huge projects. They don't know enough to predict what parts will be tougher than they thought. The deadlines only frustrate them and are counterproductive to the intern concept. They are working, yes, but they are also supposed to be learning. And when they are learning they will make mistakes.

When we had deadlines, they got so anxious there was no enjoyment, no looking for taking an hour to learn about something new. They would miss the deadline and feel like failures. That wasn't the idea. They are to be learning new things, how to work with others, learning new software tools, etc. The deadline looming over their heads wasn't contributing.

So instead of that, we meet twice a month and go over what got done in the last two weeks and what we're doing the next two weeks. The projected finish date may change as things develop. All that is to say that it's not practical to say, "Here, do X, be done by October 20."

So without a firm deadline, I'm looking to see continuous progress and learning. I can't measure them against a set finish date.

I've never interned, but I thought it was meant to be an exposure to the corporate world, albeit constrained by its temp nature. The relationship you seem to be building is one of mentoring, which is fine if that's what the kids signed up for, but if you are judging them differently than you would judge joe schmo, simply because they're students that's a bit unfair to them.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: sao123
I have a problem with the whole working by time schedule that has gripped america for the last million years.

Aside from those who deal with walk-in customers and assembly line manufacturing...

Work schedules and pay should be based on performance & deadlines rather than time.

As long as a person meets their required deadlines... (have this stack of data entered by 3pm next monday.) I dont care if you come in at 7am, 4pm, 1am, and I dont care if you work 15 minutes today and 14 hours tomorrow. As long as you do what is required of you... all should be well with the world. I dont care if you do all you work at home in your PJ's.


This reduces and possibly solves the problem of people surfing the web at work (unproductive and often wasted time), people taking an extra smoke break, or 10 minutes extra for lunch.

The only measure of accountability, is you make all required appointments, assignments, & deadlines. Not whether you appear at your desk from 9am to 5pm and are not caught doing something not work related.

That's great if no one relies on you; however, the reality for most professionals is that of a team environment, and in those cases you often have multiple people that require you to be available.

What you've described are commodity jobs, jobs that can likely be done by just about anyone. High-novelty, creative, professional positions simply can't be performed in such isolation.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: sao123
I have a problem with the whole working by time schedule that has gripped america for the last million years.

Aside from those who deal with walk-in customers and assembly line manufacturing...

Work schedules and pay should be based on performance & deadlines rather than time.

As long as a person meets their required deadlines... (have this stack of data entered by 3pm next monday.) I dont care if you come in at 7am, 4pm, 1am, and I dont care if you work 15 minutes today and 14 hours tomorrow. As long as you do what is required of you... all should be well with the world. I dont care if you do all you work at home in your PJ's.


This reduces and possibly solves the problem of people surfing the web at work (unproductive and often wasted time), people taking an extra smoke break, or 10 minutes extra for lunch.

The only measure of accountability, is you make all required appointments, assignments, & deadlines. Not whether you appear at your desk from 9am to 5pm and are not caught doing something not work related.

That's great if no one relies on you; however, the reality for most professionals is that of a team environment, and in those cases you often have multiple people that require you to be available.

What you've described are commodity jobs, jobs that can likely be done by just about anyone. High-novelty, creative, professional positions simply can't be performed in such isolation.

That's debatable. I believe they could with the proper social network and supports. Obviously it would have to be an intentional transition with a good deal of thought though... and why would any business take the risk when they have an existing working model.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: sao123
if you need to reach me, I have telephone, fax, & email.

What if I need your original signature on a paper that must go out now? You can't telephone, fax, or email an original signature.

Usually by the time someone notices you are late, you are on your way to work. Do you have fax and email in your car that you can handle while driving to work?

What if you don't do mental work but you do manual work and your job is holding up 50 people for an hour. Can you do physical labor such as repairing a burnt out equipment heater by telephone/fax/email?


And as an aside, a recent study was released showing that those people who are consistantly late or who try to work via telephone/fax/email were the least likely to be promoted. Just keep that in mind.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: kranky
Thought it was clear in the OP, but apparently not. They each work on their own projects. Interaction with others is necessary but not relevant to this issue - they have enough time to do that.

On the issue of meeting required deadlines: they are students working on projects far more complex than the typical school assignment or term project. I found it is unrealistic to set deadlines on these types of assignments. They don't have the experience to estimate huge projects. They don't know enough to predict what parts will be tougher than they thought. The deadlines only frustrate them and are counterproductive to the intern concept. They are working, yes, but they are also supposed to be learning. And when they are learning they will make mistakes.

When we had deadlines, they got so anxious there was no enjoyment, no looking for taking an hour to learn about something new. They would miss the deadline and feel like failures. That wasn't the idea. They are to be learning new things, how to work with others, learning new software tools, etc. The deadline looming over their heads wasn't contributing.

So instead of that, we meet twice a month and go over what got done in the last two weeks and what we're doing the next two weeks. The projected finish date may change as things develop. All that is to say that it's not practical to say, "Here, do X, be done by October 20."

So without a firm deadline, I'm looking to see continuous progress and learning. I can't measure them against a set finish date.

I think it comes down to what expectations were set. I think most agree that the actual time they're working doesn't really matter as long as they put their hours in and get their work done. But I think since you let them set their schedules, there was an expectation on your part that those hours were firm. They may have looked at it as flexible hours though, since you didn't care what time they set their hours for. So I can see from their perspective why they think there is nothing wrong with what they're doing, and I can see from your perspective why you think they should stick to the hours they scheduled.

Bottom line is, I think there are different expectations on both sides and you need to adjust their expectations to meet yours. Tell them they need to stick to their set schedules.

Edit: Part of an internship is learning how to work in an office environment. While being at work on time is not important for their project, it may be in the future. They need to understand that. We have flex time at my office, but we also have core hours that we're expected to work so we're available to customers and other employees.

 

[FoBoT]

in that case, they should be held tightly to an agreed upon schedule

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: sao123
I have a problem with the whole working by time schedule that has gripped america for the last million years.

Aside from those who deal with walk-in customers and assembly line manufacturing...

Work schedules and pay should be based on performance & deadlines rather than time.

As long as a person meets their required deadlines... (have this stack of data entered by 3pm next monday.) I dont care if you come in at 7am, 4pm, 1am, and I dont care if you work 15 minutes today and 14 hours tomorrow. As long as you do what is required of you... all should be well with the world. I dont care if you do all you work at home in your PJ's.


This reduces and possibly solves the problem of people surfing the web at work (unproductive and often wasted time), people taking an extra smoke break, or 10 minutes extra for lunch.

The only measure of accountability, is you make all required appointments, assignments, & deadlines. Not whether you appear at your desk from 9am to 5pm and are not caught doing something not work related.

That's great if no one relies on you; however, the reality for most professionals is that of a team environment, and in those cases you often have multiple people that require you to be available.

What you've described are commodity jobs, jobs that can likely be done by just about anyone. High-novelty, creative, professional positions simply can't be performed in such isolation.

Even if people rely on me... theres nothing i can do in person... that i cant do via phone, video and my computer. this would be true of most electronic offices.

 

[kranky]

I just want to say what a treat it has been is to read a thread this long where all the replies have made a contribution.

mugs wondered if we have different expectations. That could well be true. It is easy enough for me to mention it to the couple of interns (it's only a couple out of the group of 9) who can't seem to make it in when scheduled, asking them to revise their schedules to match when they want to come in.

One reason I have trouble letting this slide is that I know they are all taking hard engineering classes, and they make it to class and labs on time every day. They have to in order to maintain their grades.

 

[shopbruin]

i personally hate tardiness, so i hate it when people come in late. late is more than 15 minutes after your scheduled time to be in, because i give LA traffic buffer time.

there are people who are always on time, live far away, and make the effort to be here on time or early. and there are people who are still in their college frame of mind and show up "eventually." i can't stand the "eventually." promptness makes a better impression on whoever is managing you than being consistently late.

and it should not be a spectacle if you're here early. nor should it be a spectacle if you're here exactly on time.

given the OP situation, i'd say if you gave them the opportunity to schedule their own hours, i'd at the very least to expect them to be on time, or else to change their schedule. if i expect someone in by three, seeing them in the office by 315 is nice.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: sao123
I have a problem with the whole working by time schedule that has gripped america for the last million years.

Aside from those who deal with walk-in customers and assembly line manufacturing...

Work schedules and pay should be based on performance & deadlines rather than time.

As long as a person meets their required deadlines... (have this stack of data entered by 3pm next monday.) I dont care if you come in at 7am, 4pm, 1am, and I dont care if you work 15 minutes today and 14 hours tomorrow. As long as you do what is required of you... all should be well with the world. I dont care if you do all you work at home in your PJ's.


This reduces and possibly solves the problem of people surfing the web at work (unproductive and often wasted time), people taking an extra smoke break, or 10 minutes extra for lunch.

The only measure of accountability, is you make all required appointments, assignments, & deadlines. Not whether you appear at your desk from 9am to 5pm and are not caught doing something not work related.

That's great if no one relies on you; however, the reality for most professionals is that of a team environment, and in those cases you often have multiple people that require you to be available.

What you've described are commodity jobs, jobs that can likely be done by just about anyone. High-novelty, creative, professional positions simply can't be performed in such isolation.

Even if people rely on me... theres nothing i can do in person... that i cant do via phone, video and my computer. this would be true of most electronic offices.

Then it's to your own detriment, imo. This is precisely the reason why so many find their jobs outsourced, because they add little to no additional business value beyond their isolated tasks that others can perform; as I said above, it's a commodity at that point.

So, I'm not going to suggest that it can't be done; rather, that it's simply a poor professional move, and I know of absolutely no high-level professional positions that could be facilitated in the decentralized manner you suggest.

 

[sswingle]

If they are always late, and they have the ability to set their own schedule, then they should set their schedule accordingly and not be late.

 

[Electric Amish]

30 minutes is pushing it, at least it would start annoying me. 15-20 is ok, as long as it's not consistently.

What really bothers me are the companies that are counting minutes. I had a phone job where if we weren't logged onto the phones withing 2 minutes of our break time or lunch time you would get written up. That's a joke.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Depends entirely upon the position. If they're relieving someone it's VERY important. If an area needs someone in it at certain times it's important. If people set up contact times based on office hours it's important. If none of those things are true then who cares.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: sao123
I have a problem with the whole working by time schedule that has gripped america for the last million years.

Aside from those who deal with walk-in customers and assembly line manufacturing...

Work schedules and pay should be based on performance & deadlines rather than time.

As long as a person meets their required deadlines... (have this stack of data entered by 3pm next monday.) I dont care if you come in at 7am, 4pm, 1am, and I dont care if you work 15 minutes today and 14 hours tomorrow. As long as you do what is required of you... all should be well with the world. I dont care if you do all you work at home in your PJ's.


This reduces and possibly solves the problem of people surfing the web at work (unproductive and often wasted time), people taking an extra smoke break, or 10 minutes extra for lunch.

The only measure of accountability, is you make all required appointments, assignments, & deadlines. Not whether you appear at your desk from 9am to 5pm and are not caught doing something not work related.

That's great if no one relies on you; however, the reality for most professionals is that of a team environment, and in those cases you often have multiple people that require you to be available.

What you've described are commodity jobs, jobs that can likely be done by just about anyone. High-novelty, creative, professional positions simply can't be performed in such isolation.

Even if people rely on me... theres nothing i can do in person... that i cant do via phone, video and my computer. this would be true of most electronic offices.

Then it's to your own detriment, imo. This is precisely the reason why so many find their jobs outsourced, because they add little to no additional business value beyond their isolated tasks that others can perform; as I said above, it's a commodity at that point.

So, I'm not going to suggest that it can't be done; rather, that it's simply a poor professional move, and I know of absolutely no high-level professional positions that could be facilitated in the decentralized manner you suggest.

Apparently you've never worked in government or large enterprise operations. Offices are spread out everywhere. Much of all (inter-dependent) non-labor work is done via telephone, videoconference, email, & virtual meetings.

I dont know what you consider high level professional work... but I think these positions can operate out of a virtual office successfully, without having the need to congregate all in the same room.

Management
Network Operations
Accounting / Budget analysts
Payroll / Travel Expenses
Purchasing
Human Resources
Engineering
Lawyer / Attourney duties
Advertising & Sales


in fact many of these have become traveling occupations because of the rapid development of the virtual office.