Report: North Korea preparing for missile test

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Aisengard

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
This will give our anti-ICBM's some great target practice.

I kinda doubt that,
the system has really poor track record, so I doubt pentagon would take the risk. If the system fails, it would be a huge embarrasment.

Weather it fails or not I dont think anybody would hear about it
I doubt NK has the capability to detect a missile start an ocean away - nor the destruction of their own missile.

Too many people, including defense contractors and civilians, would know about the operational status of the interceptor, and the prepping of it for launch. And someone would eventually talk...and it if DIDN'T hit and be announced as such, then everyone would know it failed...

Future Shock

Isn't it a shame that their is such a stigma attached to failure today that it is better not to even try.

The thing about failure is the certain existence of its possibility.

It's like what Lincoln said, It's better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Same with our bogus missle-defense. It hasn't been tried in the real world, so a missle could be intercepted, which would mean bad bad news for the offending country. Most countries don't take this risk. If our system is proven to fail, however, we are in a much much weaker position.

With North Korea launching the missile with no real response is a victory, failing to intercept the missile is a victory, they can't lose.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Aisengard

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
This will give our anti-ICBM's some great target practice.

I kinda doubt that,
the system has really poor track record, so I doubt pentagon would take the risk. If the system fails, it would be a huge embarrasment.

Weather it fails or not I dont think anybody would hear about it
I doubt NK has the capability to detect a missile start an ocean away - nor the destruction of their own missile.

Too many people, including defense contractors and civilians, would know about the operational status of the interceptor, and the prepping of it for launch. And someone would eventually talk...and it if DIDN'T hit and be announced as such, then everyone would know it failed...

Future Shock

Isn't it a shame that their is such a stigma attached to failure today that it is better not to even try.

The thing about failure is the certain existence of its possibility.

It's like what Lincoln said, It's better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Same with our bogus missle-defense. It hasn't been tried in the real world, so a missle could be intercepted, which would mean bad bad news for the offending country. Most countries don't take this risk. If our system is proven to fail, however, we are in a much much weaker position.

With North Korea launching the missile with no real response is a victory, failing to intercept the missile is a victory, they can't lose.

But can they win?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Modular
Seeing as how gas is right around the "market price" that it should be at I would say that you are wrong...

That sounds like a pretty arbitrary figure. Are you just making this up as you go along?

The fact is, you have no idea whether gas prices would have been even higher than now had we not invaded Iraq. None of us do. It's purely hypothetical. But it's definitely a possibility. One you don't seem willing to consider.

 

[1prophet]

q]Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Aisengard

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
This will give our anti-ICBM's some great target practice.

I kinda doubt that,
the system has really poor track record, so I doubt pentagon would take the risk. If the system fails, it would be a huge embarrasment.

Weather it fails or not I dont think anybody would hear about it
I doubt NK has the capability to detect a missile start an ocean away - nor the destruction of their own missile.

Too many people, including defense contractors and civilians, would know about the operational status of the interceptor, and the prepping of it for launch. And someone would eventually talk...and it if DIDN'T hit and be announced as such, then everyone would know it failed...

Future Shock

Isn't it a shame that their is such a stigma attached to failure today that it is better not to even try.

The thing about failure is the certain existence of its possibility.

It's like what Lincoln said, It's better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Same with our bogus missle-defense. It hasn't been tried in the real world, so a missle could be intercepted, which would mean bad bad news for the offending country. Most countries don't take this risk. If our system is proven to fail, however, we are in a much much weaker position.

With North Korea launching the missile with no real response is a victory, failing to intercept the missile is a victory, they can't lose.

But can they win?[/quote]

In our minds maybe not but they have the trophies that say otherwise

 

[kage69]

I paid 3.10 per gallon yesterday for low grade 87 octane fuel. We have been in Iraq for several years and prices have only gotten worse. If we were there for O-I-L as you claim, why have prices escalated? Would not they drop down because we are monopolizing the oil and keeping it here for us?

Prices have escalated due to demand (read: the growth of China and others) and Middle Eastern regional security. Middle-men using to the situation to increase their profits haven't helped. No one insinuated that our presence in Iraq would cause gas prices to fall, so stop acting like it. Likewise, no one has said that our presence in Iraq would constitute us having "a monopoly" on oil. This might be a shock to you, but there are a number of other countries which produce oil (Saudi Arabia, Russia, Mexico, etc.) that we don't control so enough with your idiotic strawmen. Us acting against Iraq to better open its oil wealth to our markets, not to mention ensuring its trade being conducted in US dollars, is a valid and quite accurate position. If you can't see this, then I think you're the one spending quality time under a rock.

Now, re-read that slowly, take a breath and read it one more time. Allow yourself a minute for each sentence to take root. Allow your mind to see the truth. We aren't there for oil you dolt.

To quote Ron White, next time you have a thought, just let it go. If you're trying to paint someone else as an ignoramus, it helps if you yourself actually know what the hell you're talking about.

Nice work indeed; please continue dining on your foot.




Regarding the OP, I would approve of shooting down their test missile had we a proven, reliable way of doing it. We don't. As someone has already stated, a failed attempt would degrade our position diplomatically, not to mention allow NK propaganda to have it's way with the global perception of advanced American technology.

This is Kim Jong Il rattling his saber. It's what he does. Let's let our allies handle this and continue to deny him the attention he craves.

 

[Eos]

I was flipping today and the blonde guy (John something) on Fox with glasses and a slight lisp had turned the missle issue into a rant against Hollywood (he called them "the far left on the left coast"). "Now that they're a target, maybe they'll stop asking, 9/11? Is that still a big deal?" "Yes. Yes it is."

Anything to create more reasons among Fox viewers to hate anyone who doesn't share thier views.

What a douchnozzle.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: kage69

Prices have escalated due to demand

Explain how the "Supply" of Oil at an 8 yr high translates to "demand" outstripping the supply.

 

[wirelessenabled]

NK with an accurate 9800 mile range missile?

FUD anyone.

The current admin would never do anything like that ....................
...............................................................

would they?

 

[NTB]

So...have they fired the stupid thing yet or not?

Nate

 

[dahunan]

They signed a treaty against testing long range missiles right?

I say if they fire one then it is a definitive Act Of War..

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dahunan
They signed a treaty against testing long range missiles right?

I say if they fire one then it is a definitive Act Of War..

Against who???

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: dahunan
They signed a treaty against testing long range missiles right?

I say if they fire one then it is a definitive Act Of War..

Against who???

Against anyone they signed that treaty with.. right?

OOOPs... I just found out that the Test Freeze was self imposed.. hmmm. whelp.. not much we can do about that.. although I hate Kim Jong more than Saddam... and believe that he does not deserve to be alive...

 

[kage69]

Explain how the "Supply" of Oil at an 8 yr high translates to "demand" outstripping the supply.

I think the 2 most populous countries in the world having their economies go into over-drive just might have something to do with it. China filling it's own strategic reserves had a huge effect on our prices at the pump as I recall. Domestic refinement ability has advanced at a slow rate, while global demand has been increasing at a geometric rate.
But don't take this to mean I think there isn't some gouging going on, or that the big firms aren't trying to make the most of the situation.

 

[Mill]

Psshhtt...

This is typical Kim Jong-il. Nothing more than an extortion attempt to get more food and aid because juche has failed miserably. So, how can get get food to feed his military and prevent all his citizens from dying? Well, the same way he always has! He walks away from the Six Party Talks, runs his mouth about nuclear weapons, and then threatens a missile launch.

Oh, you want to know why they got so gosh darned mad and starting talking about missiles? Because their main form of income (and by proxy food supply) in the form of illegal drug smuggling' and other racketeering activities took a big hit. How? We started cracking down on their counterfeiting of US notes, Cigarettes, and smuggling them darn drugs throughout East Asia and beyond.

So, no, I'm not in the slightest bit scared. Once we ease off our financial crack down of Jong's illicit activities -- or throw him some food and aid -- they'll quit with the missile silliness. And hey, if we decide not to be charitable or extorted they might just launch a couple over Japan's head. Jong and NK love nothing more than to rile up Japan. Don't you think China is secretly laughing? Who do you think helped them with the missile tech? China, those sneaky humor filled fatherless children. I know I'll be laughing when the JDF craps their drawers. Tee-hee.

 

[Brutuskend]

Update:

North Korea Insists It Can Test Missiles
By HIROKO TABUCHI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago

TOKYO - North Korea asserted it has full autonomy to conduct missile tests, and that outsiders do not have the right to criticize its plans, Japan's Kyodo News agency reported Tuesday.

Before the latest statement, North Korea's apparent moves toward test launching a long-range ballistic missile already spiked tensions in the region and drew warnings of serious repercussions from the United States and others.

In Paris, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said any North Korean missile test must draw "firm and just" international response. United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged North Korean leaders for restraint.

"I hope that the leaders of North Korea will listen to and hear what the world is saying. We are all worried," said Annan, who was in Paris to attend the inauguration of a new museum.

Earlier Tuesday, North Korea lashed out at the United States over its plans to build a missile defense shield but did not directly address concerns that it was preparing to test-fire a missile capable of reaching the United States.

There were conflicting reports about whether a missile launch was imminent.

Japan's public broadcaster NHK said Tuesday that satellite images showed fueling vehicles still positioned around the suspected launch site in the country's northeast, but workers spotted near the head of the missile Monday weren't visible Tuesday.

The launch site appears to be guarded by about 1,000 troops, the report added.

U.S. officials in Washington said Monday the missile was apparently fully assembled and fueled, but Japan's Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Jinen Nagase said Tuesday he could not confirm that fueling had been completed.

South Korea's spy agency also believes North Korea hasn't yet completed fueling the rocket because the 40 fuel tanks seen around a launch site weren't enough to fuel a projectile estimated to be 65 tons, Yonhap news agency reported, quoting lawmakers who attended an intelligence briefing.

Bad weather over the purported launch site in North Korea on Tuesday also dimmed chances of an immediate launch. The area was cloudy, with rain expected through Wednesday morning, said South's Korea Meteorological Administration.

Kyodo News quoted an unidentified official from the North Korean Foreign Ministry as saying that Pyongyang did not regard itself as bound by prior agreements to refrain from missile testing.

"Our actions are not bound by the Pyongyang Declaration, the joint declaration made at the six-party talks in September last year or any other statements," Kyodo quoted the official as telling Japanese reporters in North Korea.

The official said his remarks represented Pyongyang's official line on the matter, Kyodo said.

There was nothing in Tuesday's Kyodo report to explain Pyongyang's declaration.

An agreement reached at six-party nuclear disarmament talks in September does not specifically address missile tests by the North. However, negotiators pledged to work toward establishing peace in the region. The six countries participating in the talks _ the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States _ also agreed to work toward normalizing relations.

Two years earlier, North Korea and Japan agreed to a moratorium on missile tests. Signed by Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi and North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, the Pyongyang Declaration said the two countries agreed on cooperation to maintain and strengthen the peace and stability of Northeast Asia. It also stated that North Korea "would further maintain the moratorium on missile launching in and after 2003."

On Monday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned the North that it will face consequences if it launches a missile, calling it a "very serious matter."

North Korea responded Tuesday by saying that U.S. moves to build a missile shield are fueling a dangerous arms race in space.

"The world is not allowed to avert its face from the grave situation in which it is facing the danger of a nuclear shower from the blue sky," the North's Minju Joson newspaper wrote in a commentary, according to the country's Korean Central News Agency.

North Korea also criticized a Japanese move to buy missiles and associated equipment from the U.S. to upgrade its missile defense system, claiming it showed an intent to become "a military giant" and mount "overseas aggression," the North's main newspaper, Rodong Sinmun, said in commentary carried by KCNA.

As tensions grew, meanwhile, the U.S. staged war games in the western Pacific on Tuesday with 22,000 troops, 280 aircraft and three aircraft carriers.

U.S. officials have said the missile, believed to be a Taepodong-2, has a firing range of 9,300 miles and could reach as far as the U.S. West Coast. Most analysts, however, say North Korea is still a long way from perfecting technology that would make the missile accurate and capable of carrying a nuclear payload.

The North's missile program has been a major security concern in the region, adding to worries about its pursuit of nuclear bombs. North Korea shocked its neighbors when it test-fired an earlier missile version over northern Japan in 1998.

In Seoul on Tuesday, Woo Sang-ho, a spokesman for South Korea's ruling party, said, "The government explained to North Korea the serious repercussions a missile launch would bring and strongly demanded that test fire plans be scrapped."

The U.S. ambassador to South Korea, Alexander Vershbow, said the U.S. would like to achieve normal relations with the North, saying a missile test "would only further compound North Korea's isolation and put it more apart from the international community."

China, the North's staunchest ally, said it had "taken note of the report that North Korea is likely to fire a missile," according to Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu. She declined to elaborate further.

Japan has said that a new launch would threaten Japanese security and violate an agreement North Korea signed in 2002 and reaffirmed in 2004. Rice said it would also end a self-imposed moratorium on test firings that North Korea has observed since 1999 and a disarmament bargain it struck with the United States and other powers last year.

After its last long-range missile launch in August 1998, the North had said it was seeking to put a satellite in orbit. Pyongyang is widely expected to make a similar claim if it goes ahead with another test launch.

North Korea claims it has nuclear weapons, but isn't believed to have a design that would be small and light enough to top a missile. The North has boycotted international nuclear talks since November over a U.S. crackdown on its alleged illegal financial activity.

Despite the latest standoff, North and South Korea opened two days of meetings in the North Korean border city of Kaesong on Tuesday to work out details over expanding a joint industrial zone there. Some experts believe the South would curtail its economic cooperation with the North in the event of a missile launch.

Former South Korean President Kim Dae-jung is also set to travel to Pyongyang next week to reprise the historic June 2000 summit between leaders from the North and South, although the reports of a possible missile test were complicating the arrangements, one of the former president's aides said Monday.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So apparently they are with in their rights to build and test missiles but WE are over stepping OUR bounds to build a defense system? 😕

I see trouble in the near future in Korea and we are stretched so thin right now that a draft may be right around the corner if this does come to blows. Add in Iran and I'm glad I did my time and I'm too old to get asked back into the service.

 

[K1052]

Same old bs out of NK.
Must be cranky that Iran is stealing all his press fearmongering.

If Kim Jong really did decide to lob a nuke at the US he'd promptly be getting a much too close and personal look at how a real strategic weapon system works.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: K1052
Same old bs out of NK.
Must be cranky that Iran is stealing all his press fearmongering.

How true.

It seems like NK creates a fuss everytime something in the ME happens to attract the media.

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: kage69

I paid 3.10 per gallon yesterday for low grade 87 octane fuel. We have been in Iraq for several years and prices have only gotten worse. If we were there for O-I-L as you claim, why have prices escalated? Would not they drop down because we are monopolizing the oil and keeping it here for us?

Prices have escalated due to demand (read: the growth of China and others) and Middle Eastern regional security. Middle-men using to the situation to increase their profits haven't helped. No one insinuated that our presence in Iraq would cause gas prices to fall, so stop acting like it. Likewise, no one has said that our presence in Iraq would constitute us having "a monopoly" on oil. This might be a shock to you, but there are a number of other countries which produce oil (Saudi Arabia, Russia, Mexico, etc.) that we don't control so enough with your idiotic strawmen. Us acting against Iraq to better open its oil wealth to our markets, not to mention ensuring its trade being conducted in US dollars, is a valid and quite accurate position. If you can't see this, then I think you're the one spending quality time under a rock.

Now, re-read that slowly, take a breath and read it one more time. Allow yourself a minute for each sentence to take root. Allow your mind to see the truth. We aren't there for oil you dolt.

To quote Ron White, next time you have a thought, just let it go. If you're trying to paint someone else as an ignoramus, it helps if you yourself actually know what the hell you're talking about.

Nice work indeed; please continue dining on your foot.

This may simply be the single, most ironic post in the history of the world. You are basically agreeing with me. OK< let me say this to YOU now...read slowly, breathe etc...

The poster I was respionding to was saying that we are in Iraq for oil...I was stating that he was an idiot for thinking as such and then explaining that the reason oil is high was because of simple economics, much like you were saying with China.

I'm not sure how you could have mis-read my post...but I accept your apology.

The P & N forums are way too full of people with an opinion that they just want to blab about, so they don't read through other people's posts carefully for the proper meaning, instead, they read enough so that they feel vindicated in blabbing about whatever...

 

[ECUHITMAN]

I am not sure if someone already linked to it, but it seems all of NK's saber rattling has caused the US to activate its missile sheild or announce that if NK tests a missile the US will shoot it down.

Washington Times
Fox News

 

[DealMonkey]

Missile Shield

 

[NTB]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Missile Shield

Ah crap. I hope our soldiers are better at that game than I ever was 🙁

Nate

 

[kage69]

This is typical Kim Jong-il. Nothing more than an extortion attempt to get more food and aid because juche has failed miserably. So, how can get get food to feed his military and prevent all his citizens from dying? Well, the same way he always has! He walks away from the Six Party Talks, runs his mouth about nuclear weapons, and then threatens a missile launch.

:thumbsup: Yep, although I was under the impression NK's concept of self-reliance was refered to as chuche. Either it's a different term altogether, or we can chalk this up to the slight difference in spelling and pronunciation that has taken place between the two Koreas these last few years. Any resident hanguk here that might know?

Oh, you want to know why they got so gosh darned mad and starting talking about missiles? Because their main form of income (and by proxy food supply) in the form of illegal drug smuggling' and other racketeering activities took a big hit. How? We started cracking down on their counterfeiting of US notes, Cigarettes, and smuggling them darn drugs throughout East Asia and beyond.

Actually I think NK's largest source of income is arms sales, specifically short-range ballistic missiles. They do smuggle, traffic, and counterfeit to supplement their economy though, the South Korean kampei and Japanese yakuza being complicit in thier efforts. Them throwing a fit becuase we're tired of their counterfeiting US currency is pretty funny though. Didn't the Australians intercept a huge load of NK narcotics awhile ago?

This may simply be the single, most ironic post in the history of the world. You are basically agreeing with me

Wrong on both counts. Break out the judgements once you've been here longer, proclaimations such as this sound lame coming from noobies. Or are you an 'old-timer' who was banned and decided to re-join?

OK< let me say this to YOU now...read slowly, breathe etc...

LOL, spare me your patronizing bullsh!t. It takes a lot more than your faulty assumptions to get me riled.

The poster I was respionding to was saying that we are in Iraq for oil...I was stating that he was an idiot for thinking as such and then explaining that the reason oil is high was because of simple economics, much like you were saying with China.

'Simple economics' doesn't fully encapsulate the issue, nor did he mention anything about a monopoly or the price of gas; those were strawmen introduced by you and then used as a supporting point to denounce him as a 'dolt' and an 'idiot'. I can see why you would avoid the regional security issue though, when it's our presence in Iraq that is contributing to it. A presence you seem to be defending.
He's not the idiot, nor does he seem the one bent on stereotyping others for having differing opinions - unlike you with your childish "go eat a soy-burger' comment.

I'm not sure how you could have mis-read my post...but I accept your apology.

The mis-reading is entirely yours if you think I'm apologizing for your assumptions.

The P & N forums are way too full of people with an opinion that they just want to blab about, so they don't read through other people's posts carefully for the proper meaning, instead, they read enough so that they feel vindicated in blabbing about whatever...

Despite the poor phrasing of this observation, I agree, there are a lot of people like you here. But hey, at least you're not bitter about it.

 

[wazzledoozle]

United States activates missile defense system

The official confirmed a report in the Washington Times that the Pentagon has switched the multibillion-dollar system from test mode to operational, after being in the developmental stage for years.
Citing US intelligence sources, the Washington Times earlier reported that two US Navy aegis warships were patrolling off the North Korean coast and would be among the first sensors that would trigger the use of interceptors.
The US's defence missile system includes nine long range interceptor missiles based at Fort Greeley in Alaska and another two at Vandenberg Air Force base in California.


This could get ugly if we shoot down the missile...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
NK with an accurate 9800 mile range missile?

FUD anyone.

The current admin would never do anything like that ....................
...............................................................

would they?

US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, said yesterday in Washington that test-launching the missile - believed to have a range of 9,300 miles

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
United States activates missile defense system

The official confirmed a report in the Washington Times that the Pentagon has switched the multibillion-dollar system from test mode to operational, after being in the developmental stage for years.
Citing US intelligence sources, the Washington Times earlier reported that two US Navy aegis warships were patrolling off the North Korean coast and would be among the first sensors that would trigger the use of interceptors.
The US's defence missile system includes nine long range interceptor missiles based at Fort Greeley in Alaska and another two at Vandenberg Air Force base in California.


This could get ugly if we shoot down the missile...

Why? I mean hey. . .if their missile test just so happens to cooincide with our missile defense system test, and their missile just happens to fly in the way of our test and gets knocked down well. . .OOPS!
Tell you what, one way to ensure that NK never gets the technology developed to deliver a nuclear missile to the US is to shoot down every single one of their tests. If they never have a conclusive test, it will make it much less likely they will be able to progress. I say every time they lob one up there, we do our damnedest to knock it down if we can. So long as they fire it over international waters, anything's game I say. Just blame it on Pirates! Yaaarrrrgh!