Replacing Water Heater, Cost?

[NetWareHead]

People I know with tank-less seem to all have problems with it taking too long to get hot water and it not staying hot in the shower. Whats the AT opinion on tank-less solutions?

I considered one but decided against it, shopped for them in fall of 2015 so thats the age of my research. We have hard water where I live and this would have adversely impacted the heat exchanger within the unit. Didnt want to do water softening. Electrical tankless required a huge circuit and I didnt want to buy the large gauge wire and upgrade my service. Gas units were better but I needed to run dual PVC pipes out the side of my house which I was not interested in doing. (cant be located within x amount of feet of a window/door and x amount of feet from ground) Warranty issues; none of the units I saw had more than a 10 year warranty; maybe 15 in some rare cases (plus none of them cover damages arising from hard water). Warranty is pretty much the same as a normal tank water heater. They all suffer from the "cold water sandwich" problem. Efficiency: most units I saw advertised 80-86% efficiency, while good is not excellent considering the cost plus natural gas is cheap now. I live in a cold climate where incoming water is cold I had reservations about the performance. Plus the cost, they are expensive for all of these drawbacks.

 

[NL5]

I can only speak to my experience, but my tankless works great. Water temp stays the same indefinitely. Never run out of hot water. I suspect people that have cold water problems don't have their heater set correctly. I can make it so hot it would burn if I wanted to (mine is set at 125 and works perfectly).

 

[herm0016]

We have a tankless and it works great. it does seem to take a bit longer to get to temp, but we dont have any trouble when the water is very cold incoming with it getting hot enough.

 

[Aikouka]

I strongly considered going tankless when I was doing a bit of work on my house. What steered me away was just the overall cost of the job (there was quite a bit being done) and how I didn't really need the hot water heater. The benefit is that it would've cleared up a lot of space down in the laundry area and helped me make that a lot cleaner. Overall, the cost for the tankless water heater + installation was around $3000. The heater itself was around $1100, which seems about right given it costs that much at other places. The rest was for plumbing new gas lines, updated water lines (it would be at the other side of the house in the crawl space), and the exhaust. The salesman also highly recommended requesting a newer gas meter from the local utility company (he mentioned something along the lines of ensuring I was getting one with more flow and not more pressure or something like that)... especially if I wanted to also go with a gas stove.

However, one thing I did get fixed during that job was replacing the PRV, and now, the pressure is at the right level. What I'm noticing now is that even though I have a decently sized electric water heater, my shower can't stay hot for more than 10-15 minutes. I mean... I literally have cold turned off and warm turned all the way up, and it's lukewarm at best. My guess is that I'm dealing with the fact that my house has is near a mountain, and we apparently have a good deal of limestone in the area. So, I'm wondering if there's either (a) a lot of build-up on the inside of the tank, (b) build-up on the heating element, or (c) both a and b!

 

[herm0016]

However, one thing I did get fixed during that job was replacing the PRV, and now, the pressure is at the right level. What I'm noticing now is that even though I have a decently sized electric water heater, my shower can't stay hot for more than 10-15 minutes. I mean... I literally have cold turned off and warm turned all the way up, and it's lukewarm at best. My guess is that I'm dealing with the fact that my house has is near a mountain, and we apparently have a good deal of limestone in the area. So, I'm wondering if there's either (a) a lot of build-up on the inside of the tank, (b) build-up on the heating element, or (c) both a and b!

you may just need a new dip tube. very easy and cheap. it keeps the water from going directly from the cold intake to hot out in the tank.

hard water has nothing to do with "being near a mountain"

 

[Cal166]

If it was the house I'm planning to live in for a long time, I would consider tankless or investing money into a nicer water heater but that's not the case.

I received a quote and it's just tad bit under $1200 for all parts and labor. $450 for labor(3hrs) a little high?

 

[Aikouka]

you may just need a new dip tube. very easy and cheap. it keeps the water from going directly from the cold intake to hot out in the tank.

Ah, I took a look online, and it certainly does sound like it could be the culprit! I'll see if I can look into more later tonight. Thanks!

hard water has nothing to do with "being near a mountain"

Well, I mean being near this specific mountain as I was told there's a lot of limestone in the general area around the mountain. I can tell you that when I lived on the other side of the city, I didn't see any of the things that I see now such as white scale on dishes and such. Whether that person was just feeding me a bunch of BS or not, I don't know... but given that there's also an unserviced water filter system in the crawlspace (unserviced as in it has no salt in the tank), I wouldn't be surprised if I do have hard water or higher mineral counts.[/QUOTE]

 

[Red Squirrel]

I can only speak to my experience, but my tankless works great. Water temp stays the same indefinitely. Never run out of hot water. I suspect people that have cold water problems don't have their heater set correctly. I can make it so hot it would burn if I wanted to (mine is set at 125 and works perfectly).

What is the temp of the incoming water? That plays a huge role. Tankless are great for the south, but in the north it can be hit and miss. From what I've been reading they are improving by a lot though.

I've also been thinking if it's worthwhile to install a water softner before a tank. Would probably make it last much longer. Even if your water is not hard by most standards it still will have minerals and stuff in it.

 

[PianoMan]

I received a quote and it's just tad bit under $1200 for all parts and labor. $450 for labor(3hrs) a little high?

If ur in SoCal, that's reasonable to me. $750 for the heater? Must be a nice unit. Does the labor come with warranty, and I assume they dispose of ur old unit and are responsible for any changes to ur installation due to it being a different HWH design.

U may be able to find lower, but I figure you'll run into diminishing returns between time spent looking and how much more of a discount you'll get.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[feralkid]

It's about time, over 20 years old. Also hear water dripping down to the burners, like the sound it makes when you drip water on fire.

I get you now.
That makes a huge difference.

 

[Aikouka]

For those of you with tankless water heaters, are you using gas or electric? I've been looking into switching again, and it's really a huge back and forth. Electric appears to be far, far cheaper on paper, and given that it's much simpler to install, I could do a lot of it myself if not all of it. (I've already done electrical and plumbing in the past.) The thing is... most installers that I've talked to are very adamant about using gas, and denounce electric tankless water heaters as being worthless. The problem is that my current tank-style water heater is electric. However, an issue with going electric is that I don't have many spots left on my service panel, and for my house, I'd probably need at least 6 blocks for 3x 40A 220V two-pole breakers. I only have four spots available without some modest shuffling and more tandem breakers. It's possible to get six, but it would be a bit of a stretch.

Electric Pros:

• Cheaper
• Potentially able to self-install
• Installs closer to living space.

Electric Cons:

• Might not be as cheap in regard to money over gallons heated.
• May require a new service panel.

Gas Pros:

• More efficient
• Potentially less money spend heating the water.

Gas Cons:

• Far more expensive to install. (Requires gas and water work.)
• Positioned much further from the main living area.

To give you an idea of the expense, my last quote for a Rinnai RL75i with removal of the old water heater was $3894 (RL94i was $4257). After looking up that specific model, I wouldn't want it, because it's really not that efficient and it would only be $100-200 more for a far more efficient model (if I purchased myself). When I spoke with a guy yesterday, he quoted around $1300 just to remove the water heater. I'm pretty sure I can turn off power, and drain the tank by myself if it'll save me that much.

 

[NetWareHead]

I view gas and electric as both equally expensive to install. In your case, needing 120 amps of draw just for the wh. Not many people install a panel with enough unused capacity to have 120 amps of leftover to someday allocate. Upgrading your service or installing a new panel is expensive. The cable from the panel to the wh sized for such a load wont be cheap either.

Gas (either natural gas or propane) has piping requirements on the intake and exhaust side of things which make things expensive too. Condensing units are more flexible in that they dont need to be near a chimney for venting and the pipes can run to a convenient place. But with condensing units, you have a need for a condensate drain. If using propane, you have some flexibility in where you want the fuel company to locate the cylinder and have a shorter run to the heater. For gas piping CSST pipe is available rather than traditional threaded black pipe which is far less labor intensive to install yet more expensive to buy. I don't really trust the stuff and would stick with rugged black pipe in my house.

Finally we have the operating cost of getting your BTUs from gas or electric and electric is the more expensive energy source in almost all areas. I'd do natural gas first if available in your area, propane second and electric last.

 

[Aikouka]

I have a 200A service right now, which I've read is about the bare minimum you'd want for an electric tankless heater that wants ~120A. I read that works because it only uses that at full usage, and you rarely ever do that. That may be a bit of a stretch for me, because I have a decent amount of electronics running fairly often. The wiring shouldn't be too bad normally given that the water heater would be installed close to the panel, which is where the current one is; however, the guys that finished the kitchen wiring stated that it was really hard to get wires into the panel, because the service lines come in the bottom and wrap around the sides. So, that takes up a bunch of room! I mean... that's the reason why I'm looking into gas to begin with... while electric should work, my situation just seems to have a lot of potential roadblocks that would make it more expensive than it would normally be.

As for the costs, I pay .008010 per cubic foot (I assume that's what CUF means) for natural gas and .088340 per KWH for electric. The hardest part for me is that I can spout those numbers, but I have no idea how much the units will use. So, it's hard for me to say how much less the gas one will cost per year and how long it will take me to recoup the higher install costs.

 

[NetWareHead]

I have a 200A service right now, which I've read is about the bare minimum you'd want for an electric tankless heater that wants ~120A. I read that works because it only uses that at full usage, and you rarely ever do that. That may be a bit of a stretch for me, because I have a decent amount of electronics running fairly often.

Its not a gamble I would take. If the unit is rated for 120 Amps, then you should budget that into your electrical planning. Heating domestic hot water requires alot of energy. In cold weather, incoming water is colder and the energy requirement goes up. Run a load of laundry, dishwasher or shower at one time and the energy draw will go up. Not sure what else you are running but that leaves you with 80 amps of reserve after the wh which is a tad low for a typical house nowadays.

The wiring shouldn't be too bad normally given that the water heater would be installed close to the panel, which is where the current one is; however, the guys that finished the kitchen wiring stated that it was really hard to get wires into the panel, because the service lines come in the bottom and wrap around the sides. So, that takes up a bunch of room! I mean... that's the reason why I'm looking into gas to begin with... while electric should work, my situation just seems to have a lot of potential roadblocks that would make it more expensive than it would normally be.

Maybe look for an electrician to give you his evaluation. Unless the service entrance cable was run in such a way that it restricts access to the knockouts on the side of the panel, or prevents you from installing a new breaker, this shouldn't be that great of an issue. Cable is flexible, you make it work. It can be moved over or even unfastened and relocated to make room.

As for the costs, I pay .008010 per cubic foot (I assume that's what CUF means) for natural gas and .088340 per KWH for electric. The hardest part for me is that I can spout those numbers, but I have no idea how much the units will use. So, it's hard for me to say how much less the gas one will cost per year and how long it will take me to recoup the higher install costs.

1 kilowatt hour generates 3412 BTUs.

1 cubic foot of natural gas generates 1032 BTUs

Lets use an arbitrary figure for a supposed heating load requirement of 100000 BTUs.

Electric: You would consume 29.3 kWh and at your rate be charged $2.59 plus any other fees.

Gas: You would consume 96.90 cubic feet and be charged $0.77 plus any other fees.

There is also another factor to consider. electrical is considered 100% efficient (or very close to it) where you consume it. Gas boilers/appliances etc... are not 100% efficient so lets say you get a non-condensing unit with 85% efficiency. So we need 15% more gas. Your new figure is $0.89. Using a condensing unit with 95% efficiency, this costs you $0.81

 

[Cal166]

To give you an idea of the expense, my last quote for a Rinnai RL75i with removal of the old water heater was $3894 (RL94i was $4257). After looking up that specific model, I wouldn't want it, because it's really not that efficient and it would only be $100-200 more for a far more efficient model (if I purchased myself). When I spoke with a guy yesterday, he quoted around $1300 just to remove the water heater. I'm pretty sure I can turn off power, and drain the tank by myself if it'll save me that much.

Quick update: Called around the area including homedepot's recommended vendors, they all came back around $1600 for a 6 year warranty-50Gallon Tank, it goes up for additional $200 for years of warranty, e.g $1800 for a 9 year and $2000 for a 12year....

I was lucky to find a HVAC company that was actually honest, straight forward and reasonable. I went to homedepot, picked up the 9year-50Gallon for $550+Tax, came home, drain my old tank out. They came on time and replaced & removed my old tank for $250(parts and labor). Saved me over Half!

 

[Aikouka]

Its not a gamble I would take. If the unit is rated for 120 Amps, then you should budget that into your electrical planning. Heating domestic hot water requires alot of energy. In cold weather, incoming water is colder and the energy requirement goes up. Run a load of laundry, dishwasher or shower at one time and the energy draw will go up. Not sure what else you are running but that leaves you with 80 amps of reserve after the wh which is a tad low for a typical house nowadays.

I think the only benefit that I have here is that I live in the south-east. So, the incoming water is a bit warmer by default, but it'll still be somewhat cold during the winter months. I do agree with you that it's definitely not ideal... especially given we're on a tech forum, and a good deal of us probably have plenty of power-thirsty toys. I think the other benefit is that I rarely use warm water, which is part of the reason why a tank isn't that ideal for me -- apart from the immediate cost difference. The only time I use warm water is for a shower in the morning, and with the dishwasher. The latter is only maybe used once every 2-3 days. I usually do my laundry with cold water instead of hot.

Although, I do have a rule for modifying things on my house... and that's to avoid doing something that I may prefer but others wouldn't like as much, or that I may be fine with, but it won't work for others. So, that's why I'm not as keen on considering my usage as being the normal usage for a system.

Maybe look for an electrician to give you his evaluation. Unless the service entrance cable was run in such a way that it restricts access to the knockouts on the side of the panel, or prevents you from installing a new breaker, this shouldn't be that great of an issue. Cable is flexible, you make it work. It can be moved over or even unfastened and relocated to make room.

It would probably be a lot easier if it were moved to the top, large knock-out (the one I see used with service wires a lot).

Here's a picture of my panel prior to when the kitchen lines were added:
https://imgur.com/a/a9tnA

The one thing that bugged me about when I paid to have the kitchen lines installed is that I asked to have lines removed that weren't being used, but they didn't do it. It's really just a couple lines from the tandems on the right. They also tossed in two normal breakers at the top to remove the 50A breaker.

There is also another factor to consider. electrical is considered 100% efficient (or very close to it) where you consume it. Gas boilers/appliances etc... are not 100% efficient so lets say you get a non-condensing unit with 85% efficiency. So we need 15% more gas. Your new figure is $0.89. Using a condensing unit with 95% efficiency, this costs you $0.81

Thank you for the numbers! So, if we're generous and say that I save $2 per month using gas, that means I have $24 per year. So, I could use that factor to find out how many years it would take to recoup the difference in cost.

Quick update: Called around the area including homedepot's recommended vendors, they all came back around $1600 for a 6 year warranty-50Gallon Tank, it goes up for additional $200 for years of warranty, e.g $1800 for a 9 year and $2000 for a 12year....

I was lucky to find a HVAC company that was actually honest, straight forward and reasonable. I went to homedepot, picked up the 9year-50Gallon for $550+Tax, came home, drain my old tank out. They came on time and replaced & removed my old tank for $250(parts and labor). Saved me over Half!

This probably isn't super surprising, but Home Depot adds a hidden fee onto everything if you go through them. If it's a simple job, it's far cheaper to find someone yourself. When I was dealing with some contractors through Home Depot and asked about an extra task, they told me that it would be $x if I went through them, but if I contacted Home Depot about it, expect it to be another 30%. But only $250 sounds pretty good... like I mentioned, the HVAC company that I was talking to wants $1300 just to remove the old water heater. To be fair, I don't know all of what that includes, but capping off water lines isn't very hard. Although, I've found this HVAC company's work to be less than stellar in the past, so they'll have to be rather willing to negotiate on price.

 

[NetWareHead]

I think the only benefit that I have here is that I live in the south-east. So, the incoming water is a bit warmer by default, but it'll still be somewhat cold during the winter months. I do agree with you that it's definitely not ideal... especially given we're on a tech forum, and a good deal of us probably have plenty of power-thirsty toys. I think the other benefit is that I rarely use warm water, which is part of the reason why a tank isn't that ideal for me -- apart from the immediate cost difference. The only time I use warm water is for a shower in the morning, and with the dishwasher. The latter is only maybe used once every 2-3 days. I usually do my laundry with cold water instead of hot.

Although, I do have a rule for modifying things on my house... and that's to avoid doing something that I may prefer but others wouldn't like as much, or that I may be fine with, but it won't work for others. So, that's why I'm not as keen on considering my usage as being the normal usage for a system.

Every time you use the wh you want to install, its going to draw 120 amps and potentially trip the main breaker if there is more than 80 amps of other draw. I dont know if the wh can modulate the electrical element and draw less depending on amount of water running through it.

You have several other large loads like those 2 60 amp breakers and an entire panel full of tandem breakers. I cant read the numbers on those tandem breakers but you have 16 circuits there alone. Say they are all 15 amp breakers so that means you are at 240 amps just for the tandem breakers. You are most likely already past the capacity and IMO you need an electrician to analyze your connected loads and probably recommend a new panel with more capacity Also, the aluminum wiring in your panel appears to not have any anti-corrosion compound where it meets the terminals.

IMO with the condition of your panel and I believe you said you do have natural gas available? Its almost a no-brainer to choose gas.

Thank you for the numbers! So, if we're generous and say that I save $2 per month using gas, that means I have $24 per year. So, I could use that factor to find out how many years it would take to recoup the difference in cost.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you should have far more than $2 in savings because this all depends on your usage. I used an arbitrary values of 100,000 BTUs. Your electric and gas bills need to be consulted to find your true usage. You will have the numbers of kWh and cubic feet used. The math will stay the same as calculated; using electricity for energy vs gas is more than 3x as expensive.

 

[Aikouka]

I dont know if the wh can modulate the electrical element and draw less depending on amount of water running through it.

From what I read, that's what they do. Well, as long as it says something like "self-modulating" on it. For example, on this unit, I'm in their yellow area. If I used two showers at once, I may see something around 70% usage on the system. Although, I do find the 62F number to be a little dubious... as I'm pretty sure my ground water isn't 62F right now when it's around 40F outside.

You have several other large loads like those 2 60 amp breakers and an entire panel full of tandem breakers. I cant read the numbers on those tandem breakers but you have 16 circuits there alone. Say they are all 15 amp breakers so that means you are at 240 amps just for the tandem breakers. You are most likely already past the capacity and IMO you need an electrician to analyze your connected loads and probably recommend a new panel with more capacity Also, the aluminum wiring in your panel appears to not have any anti-corrosion compound where it meets the terminals.

All tandems are 20A. The huge 50A at the top right has been removed, but the large 60A is still there (it's the HVAC breaker). The top left is a tandem two-pole 30A breaker that services the existing water heater and the dryer. It's kind of an interesting beast, because I can't seem to find a tandem two-pole breaker like that. At the bottom, there are now 3 20A tandem breakers that service the kitchen (2x SAC, fridge, gas stove + micro, garbage disposal, dishwasher).

I do agree that I'm already kind of at a point where you definitely can't have the whole house in use, but you're not supposed to go over 80% of a circuit's capacity, and most people don't use all of the circuits anyway. I've considered getting the panel replaced, but there are more pressing matters. Also, given that it works fine, I don't know if I want to toss money at it as it's money that I'll never see back.

IMO with the condition of your panel and I believe you said you do have natural gas available? Its almost a no-brainer to choose gas.

Yeah... it's mostly the cost difference that was making me question it. I mean... based upon what I've seen electricians quote for panel upgrades, it would cost about as much for the electric water heater + panel upgrade as it would just to get the gas water heater. I've never been a huge fan of how packed that panel was -- even though I've been told by electricians that it's fine -- but I've just kind of lived with it. Another interesting positive of a gas water heater is that they're a bit easier to use in a power outage.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Just got a quote for my water tank. TABARNAC!

A tankless Navien 240 runs me at over $4,783 plus tax, so about $5,500, a regular 40 gal non condensing tank runs me at $1,289, so about $1,500 . Going to take way too long to pay for itself if I go this route. Even the regular tank, as it's not high efficiency, so all I'd save is the rental fee. Think I will look at a self installed tankless then just get someone to do the gas. So at most, 3 grand when all is said and done. There's a Rheem tankless on Home Depot for about $1,500 before tax, so say, $2,000 or so with piping and other accessories. Though the Navien I was quoted is over 2 grand retail, so it's probably a better unit too.

The quote for the regular tank may not be too bad, since at least I'll save on the rental fee, but I almost feel if I'm going to spend any kind of money I should go with something more efficient so I can save more in the long run, but at over 5k it would still take a while. If it was something like house heat then that's different as it gets way more use, but not like the water heater gets that much mileage compared to heat. If I'm going to spend 5 grand on something that can save on natural gas it makes more sense to use that money towards a wood stove.

Think I'll hold off on any purchase for now and think more about it but I'm going to lean towards a self installed tankless. I'd still have to hire someone to do the gas line though. Heck, it might be worthwhile to just buy the pipe and threading tools and do it myself, except for the final connection.

 

[Aikouka]

I got some basic quotes (I haven't gotten the final ones yet) for a tankless water heater. The hardest part for me is where to put the unit itself. I have a tri-level house, which means there's a single-story portion married to the middle of a two-story portion. The gas comes in on the far side of the single-story portion. So, it's somewhat cheaper to install it on that far side of the single-story portion in the crawl space, but that's pretty much as far as you can get from the actual bathrooms. That means it would take quite a while for warm water to reach the bathrooms. If I moved it over to the side of the single-story portion that is married to the two-story portion, it would be only a few feet from the existing water heater's position. Unfortunately, this still doesn't mean that I'll get immediate hot water, as it'll still have to work its way up to the bathrooms... it'll just be faster than the other position.

So, there were two models that I was considering, and they both kind of fit in to these situations. The RUR98i would work fairly well in the first position. It's the more expensive model (about +$500 on Amazon), but it includes a built-in recirculation pump with times that can be setup via a controller. This means that I could place the unit in a position further from the bathrooms, but program it to heat up the water around when I'll need it. On the other hand, the RUC98i is cheaper, but doesn't include the recirculation feature. However, the difference in cost would be eaten up by all the gas piping required to move the unit to the second position.

The hardest part is realizing that the RUR98i would work well in very standardized situations. In other words, I get up at the same time during the week, but I'm not that consistent on the weekend. Also, if I need to take a shower at night for whatever reason, I'll have to wait. I guess it would be good to get an understanding of what sort of wait times I'd be seeing. The guy that quoted me has a tankless water heater (I think it was the Rinnai RL75i), and even though his is somewhat close in the garage (a similar house design as mine), he said it can take up to 2 minutes.

As for the numbers, he said that I'm looking at $3300 for the RUC98i, and about +$500 for the RUR98i. As noted above, putting the RUC98i in the second position would raise the cost. Also, I get a $500 rebate back from the local municipality for installing a tankless water heater. As for a tax credit, I'd have to see if they renew the credit for 2017, but given that it may be an EPA-based green initiative, I don't hold my breath on that one.

 

[NetWareHead]

Are you piping with pex or copper from the tankless?

 

[paperfist]

like I mentioned, the HVAC company that I was talking to wants $1300 just to remove the old water heater. To be fair, I don't know all of what that includes, but capping off water lines isn't very hard. Although, I've found this HVAC company's work to be less than stellar in the past, so they'll have to be rather willing to negotiate on price.

By god I'm in the wrong business if that's the going rate to remove a hot water heater. It's located in the basement? How many stairs to lug it up for removal?

What kind of heating system do you have for your house?

 

[MongGrel]

I thought about trying out a tank less myself, do not have gas in the house.

Just the electrical connections seemed over the top to me.

I went down and got a decent one from Home Depot last time and a couple gator bites and slapped it in in about a half hour.

I like to keep things simple, is a pretty nice tank that works for just the two of us.

 

[Aikouka]

I spoke with the guy about the quote earlier today, and it looks like I may end up doing a good bit of the plumbing. He recommended upgrading the 1/2" to 3/4", but if I remember correctly, the book price is $10 per foot... and it's both hot and cold -- so times two. I can go buy 100 foot of 3/4" PEX, which they would also use, for $50 from Home Depot, buy a few fittings and run it myself for around $100-120 rather than pay around $500-600 for it. It's really just two long lines with one stop at the sink (H + C), one stop at the fridge (C) and one stop at the water softener (C). At the end, it connects up to the 1/2" copper that goes up to the upstairs. So, it's probably 100 feet of tubing and six fittings.

I also wonder if I could recoup a bit of that cost if I sold the old copper piping? That makes me realize that I discarded a bunch of old conduit, which also had copper in it.

By god I'm in the wrong business if that's the going rate to remove a hot water heater. It's located in the basement? How many stairs to lug it up for removal?

I mentioned that to the guy that was giving me the quote, and he seemed shocked at the amount. He told me that removal would be free with the installation. So, I'm really not sure where the other dude got his $1300 figure from. But anyway, the laundry room is close to the garage, so there's just the raised landing, and that's it.

What kind of heating system do you have for your house?

Just a 40-gallon electric water heater.

 

[paperfist]

I spoke with the guy about the quote earlier today, and it looks like I may end up doing a good bit of the plumbing. He recommended upgrading the 1/2" to 3/4", but if I remember correctly, the book price is $10 per foot... and it's both hot and cold -- so times two. I can go buy 100 foot of 3/4" PEX, which they would also use, for $50 from Home Depot, buy a few fittings and run it myself for around $100-120 rather than pay around $500-600 for it. It's really just two long lines with one stop at the sink (H + C), one stop at the fridge (C) and one stop at the water softener (C). At the end, it connects up to the 1/2" copper that goes up to the upstairs. So, it's probably 100 feet of tubing and six fittings.

I also wonder if I could recoup a bit of that cost if I sold the old copper piping? That makes me realize that I discarded a bunch of old conduit, which also had copper in it.



I mentioned that to the guy that was giving me the quote, and he seemed shocked at the amount. He told me that removal would be free with the installation. So, I'm really not sure where the other dude got his $1300 figure from. But anyway, the laundry room is close to the garage, so there's just the raised landing, and that's it.



Just a 40-gallon electric water heater.

You can get something for scrap metal but 3 years ago it was at all time highs. Now not so much. Electrical wire is even less even if copper unless you strip the insulation.

You don't have a forced hot air or boiler system heating your house? If you had a boiler theres another unlimited hot water tank you can hook up to it that's much simpler and less expensive then those on demand units.

Personally I wouldn't use PEX for my drinking supply. Copper is a lot more I know and a little more involving to run.

The hot water tank removal is pretty straight forward. Shut off the supplies, drain the tank, cut and cap the supplies with Shark Bites, remove and cap the exhaust and haul that dead carcass out of there.