-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Replacing Ball Joints and Tie Rod Ends - Advice?
- Thread starter Analog
- Start date
- Status
joutlaw
Golden Member
You will probably need to rent something to remove the balljoints. Some require a special press. Try autozone.
Mark where the original tie rods are. This will get you in the ball park to take to get an alignment.
I would replace the sway bar end links and bushing because you will be there already and they are typically pretty easy to change and cheap.
It's not a bad job if you have the right tools.
Mark where the original tie rods are. This will get you in the ball park to take to get an alignment.
I would replace the sway bar end links and bushing because you will be there already and they are typically pretty easy to change and cheap.
It's not a bad job if you have the right tools.
LordMorpheus
Diamond Member
I did sway bar links and upper/lower ball joint on my lincoln over the summer.
I probably had an easier time than you will, as I didn't have to worry about drive shafts.
It's fairly simple - jack the car up (onto stands) and remove the wheel, caliper, and brake disk. Next step on the townie is to undo the pinch bolt holding the upper ball joint to the knuckle, then undo the bolt holding the sway bar link to the knuckle. Remove the upper balljoint from the upper control arm (in the lincoln, the alignment cams are here, so it's good practice to mark the position and install the new ones the same way, so the car will be closer to aligned when you take it the shop).
If you were doing tie rod ends also, you'd undo that connection now (mine were in good shape, so I left them, and didn't disconnect them from the knuckle for the sake of simplicity).
Next, you get your ball joint separator that you rented from autozone (looks like a big fork) and hammer that sucker in between the lower balljoint and the knuckle, letting it's wedge shape drive the knuckle off the balljoint.
To remove the balljoint you use your handy balljoint press (looks like a big c-clamp, also rented from autozone) to squish the old part out of there, and then turn it around and squish the new one back in (be careful here, make sure you go it correctly, you're playing with enough force to deform the control arm if you get the balljoint going in wrong).
Once you've got that all the way in there, put the knuckle back on it and tighten the bolt down. Install the new upper balljoint on the upper control arm (making sure that the alignment cams are in the same position, if relevant), and then connect the sway bar link and the upper ball joint to the knuckle, in whatever order is easiest.
Use your floor jack to articulate the suspension to make connecting the knuckle to the upper balljoint possible.
The problem I ran into was that trying to tighten locking nuts onto the studs protruding from the ball joints - the nut would do it's thing and lock to the stud, when I tried to tighten further the ball would rotate in it's socket and I'd get nowhere. This stretched out the time taken by this job a huge amount, and was really the only major setback. Eventually I got the nut so that some spare theads were exposed, I filed those down so I could put a wrench on it, and tightened it on up.
I would love to hear what tricks there are for not having to do that. It was ridiculous. I have no idea what I was supposed to do to tighten those fasteners.
And, OP, when you get frustrated (you will), go get some ice water and remind yourself that you are having fun.
I probably had an easier time than you will, as I didn't have to worry about drive shafts.
It's fairly simple - jack the car up (onto stands) and remove the wheel, caliper, and brake disk. Next step on the townie is to undo the pinch bolt holding the upper ball joint to the knuckle, then undo the bolt holding the sway bar link to the knuckle. Remove the upper balljoint from the upper control arm (in the lincoln, the alignment cams are here, so it's good practice to mark the position and install the new ones the same way, so the car will be closer to aligned when you take it the shop).
If you were doing tie rod ends also, you'd undo that connection now (mine were in good shape, so I left them, and didn't disconnect them from the knuckle for the sake of simplicity).
Next, you get your ball joint separator that you rented from autozone (looks like a big fork) and hammer that sucker in between the lower balljoint and the knuckle, letting it's wedge shape drive the knuckle off the balljoint.
To remove the balljoint you use your handy balljoint press (looks like a big c-clamp, also rented from autozone) to squish the old part out of there, and then turn it around and squish the new one back in (be careful here, make sure you go it correctly, you're playing with enough force to deform the control arm if you get the balljoint going in wrong).
Once you've got that all the way in there, put the knuckle back on it and tighten the bolt down. Install the new upper balljoint on the upper control arm (making sure that the alignment cams are in the same position, if relevant), and then connect the sway bar link and the upper ball joint to the knuckle, in whatever order is easiest.
Use your floor jack to articulate the suspension to make connecting the knuckle to the upper balljoint possible.
The problem I ran into was that trying to tighten locking nuts onto the studs protruding from the ball joints - the nut would do it's thing and lock to the stud, when I tried to tighten further the ball would rotate in it's socket and I'd get nowhere. This stretched out the time taken by this job a huge amount, and was really the only major setback. Eventually I got the nut so that some spare theads were exposed, I filed those down so I could put a wrench on it, and tightened it on up.
I would love to hear what tricks there are for not having to do that. It was ridiculous. I have no idea what I was supposed to do to tighten those fasteners.
And, OP, when you get frustrated (you will), go get some ice water and remind yourself that you are having fun.
LordMorpheus
Diamond Member
The sway bar is a spring that connects your left and right suspension, and applies force to try to keep them at the same deflection.
The purpose of this is primarily when you are turning, and the vehicle will want to lean to the outside, the swaybar will fight that tendency.
You do want to have both wheels off the ground and the suspension in the same place before you start undoing the swaybar links, though.
You want to put a jackstand on either side of the car under the chassis hardpoints, and then if you need the suspension to articulate in order to make or break a connection, put your jack under the lower control arm and use that to articulate the suspension.
bruceb
Diamond Member
If you are sure the ball joints are bad, and can't get the pickle fork, you can leave the castle nut even with the top of the threads and tap it with a hammer to free it.
I just checked and your car has the Ball Joint riveted in place.
It is held in by 3 large rivets. You need to either drill them out, or use a chisel to chop them off. New ball joints will come with bolts.
Your car uses Moog Part #MOK6429 which runs about $59 each.
http://www2.partstrain.com/bas...hp?add_item_id=3222577
The ones from GM would be even more expensive. GM List is $114 or $68 at GMpartsdirect.com (plus shipping)
The entire control arm is $229 with ball joint and bushing (1 per side) if you want to go that route.
I just checked and your car has the Ball Joint riveted in place.
It is held in by 3 large rivets. You need to either drill them out, or use a chisel to chop them off. New ball joints will come with bolts.
Your car uses Moog Part #MOK6429 which runs about $59 each.
http://www2.partstrain.com/bas...hp?add_item_id=3222577
The ones from GM would be even more expensive. GM List is $114 or $68 at GMpartsdirect.com (plus shipping)
The entire control arm is $229 with ball joint and bushing (1 per side) if you want to go that route.
Analog
Lifer
The left tie rod came out of the knuckle ok, but I can't get it off the shaft. I've tried everything I can think of.
I managed to back the nut off the end of the tie rod and up the shaft about 3/4" while the tie rod end was in the hole, hoping that by turning that nut clockwise, it would start to turn the shaft in the direction needed to back it off the tie rod end. I was unable to get the nut to do this, despite beating an open end 22mm wrench while it was on the nut.
I tried putting an open end wrench on the tie rod end, and another on the shaft where you can put a wrench on it, without luck.
I used PB blaster on the threads, but I don't think it helped at all.
I heated up the tie rod end with a propane torch with no results.
I tapped the side of the tie rod casing where the threads are with a mallet, with a mass on the other side, and that didn't seem to help.
Do I have to remove the inner tie rod and junk the whole thing at this point?
I don't have the special tools to do that, and the inner tie rod is okay.
I'm at wits end right now...
I managed to back the nut off the end of the tie rod and up the shaft about 3/4" while the tie rod end was in the hole, hoping that by turning that nut clockwise, it would start to turn the shaft in the direction needed to back it off the tie rod end. I was unable to get the nut to do this, despite beating an open end 22mm wrench while it was on the nut.
I tried putting an open end wrench on the tie rod end, and another on the shaft where you can put a wrench on it, without luck.
I used PB blaster on the threads, but I don't think it helped at all.
I heated up the tie rod end with a propane torch with no results.
I tapped the side of the tie rod casing where the threads are with a mallet, with a mass on the other side, and that didn't seem to help.
Do I have to remove the inner tie rod and junk the whole thing at this point?
I don't have the special tools to do that, and the inner tie rod is okay.
I'm at wits end right now...
boomerang
Lifer
You need more heat. You can buy a small, portable torch kit that will use MAPP gas. There will be an Oxygen tank too.
It will generate the amount of heat you need. Propane will not cut it as you already know.
If you have a hardware store nearby that is well stocked they may have one, otherwise go to Lowe's or Home Depot. Make sure it has two tanks. You need the Oxygen tank to generate the heat your require. Also, you will burn through the Oxygen at about a 3 to 1 ratio, so you will only want to have the torch on when you are heating.
Unless you have a friend or neighbor with a set of torches, this is the cheapest way to go. You could of course put it back together and take it somewhere too.
Edit: http://www.drillspot.com/produ...2550KC_Oxy_Cutting_Kit
I've had mine for nearly 20 years. Looks like they are considerably more expensive than when I bought mine. I did not price shop, just found a link so you'd have a better understanding of what I was talking about.
It will generate the amount of heat you need. Propane will not cut it as you already know.
If you have a hardware store nearby that is well stocked they may have one, otherwise go to Lowe's or Home Depot. Make sure it has two tanks. You need the Oxygen tank to generate the heat your require. Also, you will burn through the Oxygen at about a 3 to 1 ratio, so you will only want to have the torch on when you are heating.
Unless you have a friend or neighbor with a set of torches, this is the cheapest way to go. You could of course put it back together and take it somewhere too.
Edit: http://www.drillspot.com/produ...2550KC_Oxy_Cutting_Kit
I've had mine for nearly 20 years. Looks like they are considerably more expensive than when I bought mine. I did not price shop, just found a link so you'd have a better understanding of what I was talking about.
+1 for MAPP gas. Propane usually doesn't do it.
Have you managed to get the lower ball joint out of the knuckle yet? One thing you might try if you have trouble is using your floor jack under your lower arm to compress the spring. As the spring compresses and the knuckle moves relative to the lower arm, you might noticed that a space opens up right up against the knuckle where you could wedge in a bar (I used a 1/2" breaker bar). Slip that in there, then quickly lower your floor jack. If the geometry is just right, that bar will tend to hold the entire suspension in the 'compressed' position until the lower ball joint pops out under the force of the spring. If it doesn't pop out, make sure you floor jack gives you some clearance under the lower arm and use your foot on the lug nuts to give the whole thing a good shove down.
This worked well on my 98 Civic, may or may not on your car, depends on geometry of the whole thing.
Have you managed to get the lower ball joint out of the knuckle yet? One thing you might try if you have trouble is using your floor jack under your lower arm to compress the spring. As the spring compresses and the knuckle moves relative to the lower arm, you might noticed that a space opens up right up against the knuckle where you could wedge in a bar (I used a 1/2" breaker bar). Slip that in there, then quickly lower your floor jack. If the geometry is just right, that bar will tend to hold the entire suspension in the 'compressed' position until the lower ball joint pops out under the force of the spring. If it doesn't pop out, make sure you floor jack gives you some clearance under the lower arm and use your foot on the lug nuts to give the whole thing a good shove down.
This worked well on my 98 Civic, may or may not on your car, depends on geometry of the whole thing.
BlackTigers
Diamond Member
I changed my ball joints and tie rod ends not too long ago at all.
Tie Rod Ends -
Were easier. All I had to do for mine was take the tire off and cock the wheel, and I had access, I spun the castle nut off with a breaker bar, but the actual tie rod was a PITA to get out of the knuckle. I know some will recommend a pickle fork, but I just beat the living shit out of the bottom it it (threaded end) with a BFH and it popped out, it got trashed, anyway.
Make sure you loosen the nut on the actual tie rod before you pop it off the knuckle, or you're going to be torquing your tie rod trying to get it off. Also make sure that there's sufficient grease in the TRE, if not; add more or you'll tear that boot right up.
Ball Joints -
These were fun. They weren't TOO bad, because I had the knuckle disconnected from the car so I had plenty of room to work. No real tricks here, other than an excessive use of pry bars and screaming. =/
Tie Rod Ends -
Were easier. All I had to do for mine was take the tire off and cock the wheel, and I had access, I spun the castle nut off with a breaker bar, but the actual tie rod was a PITA to get out of the knuckle. I know some will recommend a pickle fork, but I just beat the living shit out of the bottom it it (threaded end) with a BFH and it popped out, it got trashed, anyway.
Make sure you loosen the nut on the actual tie rod before you pop it off the knuckle, or you're going to be torquing your tie rod trying to get it off. Also make sure that there's sufficient grease in the TRE, if not; add more or you'll tear that boot right up.
Ball Joints -
These were fun. They weren't TOO bad, because I had the knuckle disconnected from the car so I had plenty of room to work. No real tricks here, other than an excessive use of pry bars and screaming. =/
Analog
Lifer
The ball joints turned out to be not too bad after all. Thanks for all the advice everyone.
The one tie rod end that wouldn't come off finally did - thanks to the MAPP gas suggestion. I never knew that you needed to get it that hot to make a difference. Another guy told me that acetylene gets it red hot, which would be the best - somehow I didn't realize you could do that. The MAPP gas did not get it red hot, but I held it on for a long time and it did finally make a difference.
Now that its off, I am going to clean up the threads before I put the new end on, with plenty of anti-seize.
The one tie rod end that wouldn't come off finally did - thanks to the MAPP gas suggestion. I never knew that you needed to get it that hot to make a difference. Another guy told me that acetylene gets it red hot, which would be the best - somehow I didn't realize you could do that. The MAPP gas did not get it red hot, but I held it on for a long time and it did finally make a difference.
Now that its off, I am going to clean up the threads before I put the new end on, with plenty of anti-seize.
- Status
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
-
-
