Replacing a patio door / rotting wood

[sohcrates]

I have a 5 foot sliding glass door that opens to my backyard that needs to be replaced. I was thinking either another sliding door or a french door.

In addition, the subfloor of the house right around the door and underneath it is all rotten and moldy.

Anyone have experience with this before? Think i can tackle this job myself with some help?

Pretty much everyone i've asked charges at least $500 in labor to replace the door alone (not counting the wood).

Guess i'm looking to save some $$

Thanks for any insight!

Old thread revived by spammer but others are making contributing posts so I moved it from OT to here.
admin allisolm

 

[FoBoT]

you have to take out the old door and rebuild the frame

if you are good with framing/familiar with how a framed house is constructed, then it shouldn't be hard

if not, pay somebody to do it right, you don't want a crooked/leaky door that won't last

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

thats pretty reasonable for a new door and installation. You might get lucky, but if you have no skills, it will be tough.

 

[arcas]

A couple comments:

1) When you replace the door, make sure you put a coat or two of sealer on the new door (assuming it's wood) before installing it. Don't just depend on the silicone weather sealer to keep the water out. Unless you buy an expensive model, the wood used in these is usually unsealed pine that'll suck up water faster than you can believe.

2) Beware that french doors -- the type with 2 doors that swing outward to create a big opening -- are easier for a burglar to force open than a regular door. Since you're going to replace part of your subfloor anyway, you could mitigate this by cutting a notch in the floor and adding a vertical latch at the bottom of each door. Check with your local fire codes to see if this is allowed but I'd be wary of a french door without some additional means of keeping the doors shut.

3) Most doors available at building supply stores are pre-hung so they're a lot easier to install than if you had to assemble a frame by hand. If you have a friend or two, you should be able to install a 5-foot door in an afternoon. There are plenty of online and print guides available that show you how. Spend the $500 you save on a nicer door. Your problem, though, is part of the subfloor also needs to be cut out and replaced. Depending on how bad it is, that could add an extra couple hours to the job. Allow yourself a weekend to do it.


4) I know it doesn't apply to your case since you have a sliding door but for folks who have french-style doors (I have a 3-panel french door on my patio), you don't always have to replace the whole door when you find rot. You can cut out the rotten pieces and install new wood (make sure you seal it first!). If you take your time, the results will be indistinguishable from a new door. I had to do this to all 4 vertical pieces of my frame last year. The most tedious part was making a piece of molding to match since it's a non-standard shape that I couldn't find at Lowe's or Home Depot.

 

[sohcrates]

interesting. thanks for the insight everyone.

arcas: will a french door with only one side that opens (the other is fixed) be any better security-wise than one where both doors open?

 

[arcas]

It probably depends on the design but IMO, yes. The difference being that on a double french door, the doors sort of latch into each other so if you push hard enough you can force both of them open. A single french door is more or less like a normal door.

Another thing to consider is replace the 3/4" screws that come with your lockset with longer screws that reach into the stud, if you can. Do this on your front door, too, if you already haven't.

 

[sohcrates]

anyone know where i could find french doors other than lowes or home depot?

i'm not that impressed with their selection so far....

i mean, where did people buy stuff *before* these megastores existed?

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: sohcrates

i mean, where did people buy stuff *before* these megastores existed?

lumber yards?

 

[nwfsnake]

"Real" builders don't purchase stuff from the Mega-stores, they still use the local places.

 

[sohcrates]

Originally posted by: nwfsnake
"Real" builders don't purchase stuff from the Mega-stores, they still use the local places.

do consumers, not builders, have access to these local places?

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

yes, although as you are on a budget, the big box stores will be your best bet.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: sohcrates

Originally posted by: nwfsnake
"Real" builders don't purchase stuff from the Mega-stores, they still use the local places.

do consumers, not builders, have access to these local places?

If you have an 84 Lumber store nearby, I would check them out. They seem to know a LOT more than HoDepo, and Lowes.

 

[Sluggo]

Originally posted by: sohcrates

Originally posted by: nwfsnake
"Real" builders don't purchase stuff from the Mega-stores, they still use the local places.

do consumers, not builders, have access to these local places?

Yes, but if you wander in looking for a retail experience, you will be disappointed. They will expect you to know all the details of what you are looking for.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: arcas
3) Most doors available at building supply stores are pre-hung so they're a lot easier to install than if you had to assemble a frame by hand. If you have a friend or two, you should be able to install a 5-foot door in an afternoon. There are plenty of online and print guides available that show you how. Spend the $500 you save on a nicer door. Your problem, though, is part of the subfloor also needs to be cut out and replaced. Depending on how bad it is, that could add an extra couple hours to the job. Allow yourself a weekend to do it.

A few years ago I helped a friend install 2 pre-hung french doors. The first one took the better part of 4 hours to install and we never really got the door to open and close properly. It still binds to this day. The next one we did the next day and it took 1/2 hour and opens and closes perfectly. So, there is a learning curve for sure...probably didn't help that it was raining when we installed the first one though.

My point is that you could spend good money on a nice door and inexperience would lead to a door that doesn't open/close quite right and it will always bug the crap out of you. I'd pay $500 in a second to avoid years of "I should of"....then again, he might fvck it up too.

 

[Ornery]

One thing's for certain, french doors look far better than sliders! Not sure what's available at Home Depot, but you won't get a "builder's discount" if you go where they buy stuff.

I'd be more concerned about fixing that sill. Got pictures? Is it on a slab, crawl space, basement, or what? Is it a few feet above the ground, opening out to a deck on a bi-level? There could be 101 different configurations, with 101 different problems, and ways to fix it.

Also, find out exactly what the rough opening is. You'll want to buy a door that fits it perfectly. I doubt you'll want to screw around modifying the opening one way or the other.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Ornery

One thing's for certain, french doors look far better than sliders! Not sure what's available at Home Depot, but you won't get a "builder's discount" if you go where they buy stuff.

I'd be more concerned about fixing that sill. Got pictures? Is it on a slab, crawl space, basement, or what? Is it a few feet above the ground, opening out to a deck on a bi-level? There could be 101 different configurations, with 101 different problems, and ways to fix it.

Also, find out exactly what the rough opening is. You'll want to buy a door that fits it perfectly. I doubt you'll want to screw around modifying the opening one way or the other.

Yeah, we had to do that with my friend's house. The doors were a bit larger than the opening.

 

[sohcrates]

Originally posted by: Ornery

One thing's for certain, french doors look far better than sliders! Not sure what's available at Home Depot, but you won't get a "builder's discount" if you go where they buy stuff.

I'd be more concerned about fixing that sill. Got pictures? Is it on a slab, crawl space, basement, or what? Is it a few feet above the ground, opening out to a deck on a bi-level? There could be 101 different configurations, with 101 different problems, and ways to fix it.

Also, find out exactly what the rough opening is. You'll want to buy a door that fits it perfectly. I doubt you'll want to screw around modifying the opening one way or the other.

Hi

The door is approximately 4 feet above the ground. below the room the door is in is our basement...it is a partially underground basement (3/4 is underground with a window).

So directly below the door is subfloor, followed by joists, followed by sheetrock for the ceiling in the basement below.

it opens out onto 5 steps down to the ground..eventually i want to build a deck that it opens out to.

here are some pics

The rotten floor

Closer

one more

outside the door

thanks for any insight

 

[Ornery]

Oh that ain't so bad. Replace the six or eight inches of plywood under the door and you're good to go. Use caulking under the new door to keep moisture from seeping underneath. Your floor probably got wet from the aluminum sweating. Your new door will probably be vinyl and wood on the bottom. I'll bet your current rough opening is a standard size as well, since it doesn't look that old.

 

[imported_weadjust]

It's gonna be a bigger job than you think once you tear into it.

You need to replace the plywood subfloor a minimum of 2' back from the door. Anything less and the floor will squeak or flex. You also have to install some 2 X 4 framing between the floor joists to attach the plywood subfloor.

Possible water damage to the framing underneath the door frame.

You need to know the rough opening to determine which door to purchase. I wouldn't go back with a slider. Pre-hung doors are fairly easy to install using shims to get the door level and plumb.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You can save money by removing the old door and redoing the frame, but I'd pay someone to install a new one. Not because it's that hard, but because the door that they will install is going to be much higher quality than what you'll be able to buy at the hardware store if you install yourself.

Did mine a few years back, removed the old and rebuilt the frame so that it can be a standard size (saved a lot of money too as they did not have to do a custom order). I had a bit of rot to deal with too, and some general weird craftsmanship and lack of proper vapour barrier tie in. So fixed all that at the same time.



There is also something nerve racking about having such a big hole to the outside like that. I had to put my cat in another room and close the door for this project.



Downside of DIY is that you'll have a hole you have to cover temporarily till the door comes in. For me it took like 6 weeks. I did not want to actually use up new plywood for something temporary so just used some scraps to keep the cat from trying to go outside, and plastic for air sealing.

After the new door was installed I then fixed up the insulation and vapour barrier. Made a huge difference.

 

[BoomerD]

Red, this thread is almost 12 years old. I'm sure the OP figured it out by now...fucking necrospammers.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Holy crap did not notice. I don't really tend to look at dates just if the thread is on the first page.

Well their current door is probably due for replacement by now.