Replacing 15A breaker with 20A?

[edro]

Yeah, I know it's an NEC code that the entire circuit must be 12AWG wire to use a 20A breaker in your house...

...but, I have a 15A breaker that is daisy chained all over the house and it keeps tripping if too many things are turned on.

The only lines you really need to worry about are the ones closest to the breaker... If each device is pulling a few amps, the only physical wire that will pass the 15A+ is the one right before the breaker.

Wire ampacities are all extremely estimated anyways. NEC, CSA, UL, FCC, they all have different values, all depending on insulation type, conduit type, air circulation, etc.

Will my house really catch on fire if I put an extra 5A (Max) through this circuit?

 

[iamwiz82]

Why chance it at all? IMHO, it's not worth dying over.

 

[spidey07]

It is definitely a possibility.

Maybe you could break up the circuit?

 

[edro]

I don't know for sure is all the wires are 14AWG or 12AWG. The line going into the circuit breaker is 12AWG, but I haven't checked the outlets in that branch circuit. They should be 12AWG... but if the breaker is only 15A, they probably aren't all 12AWG.

 

[FoBoT]

next on OT

"HELP ATOT! MY HOUSE BURNED DOWN!!"


i vote no

 

[So]

Yeah, I'd be conservative w/ that one...

 

[Specop 007]

Playing with electricity is like playing in the markets.

Choose your level of risk and go for it.

Personally, I'm curious myself what would happen so as a bystander with no risk in this I say go for it!

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

gamble if you want, but don't expect anyone to tell you it's okay to do.

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Personally, I'm curious myself what would happen so as a bystander with no risk in this I say go for it!

LOL.

Yeah, I have been trying to determine the best way to divide up the circuit, but since everything is already existing wiring, it is going to be difficult.

 

[edro]

If I verified that all the wiring to all the devices on the circuit are 12AWG, I could do it. I will just have to take apart all of the outlets and devices on that circuit to check.

 

[spidey07]

Oh, wire "ampacities" aren't estimated. It's by code that the wire is guaranteed not to exceed a certain temperature.

Then there's the 80% rule - that is that components are typically rated at 80% of their load....or something like that.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Oh, wire "ampacities" aren't estimated. It's by code that the wire is guaranteed not to exceed a certain temperature.

Then there's the 80% rule - that is that components are typically rated at 80% of their load....or something like that.

so 15/.8 = 18.75a. You aren't helping his case

 

[mrrman]

they are rated for a reason, not to exceed that allowed Amperage/wire guage. Even though the dielectric breakdown is minimal,if something happened to your place you would be 100% liable.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

edro,

DIAF



Seriously, sounds like you may have too many outlets for a single 15 amp circuit.

Possibly it was done with 12 AWG wire already (was it?), and you are OK swapping out the breaker.

If there is any 14 AWG wire in the circuit, then I wouldn't do it.

 

[ebaycj]

If it's 12AWG throughout, go ahead. If not, don't.

Voiding your homeowners insurance is a very bad thing.
I'm sure that your bank would not like it if your house burned down, and your homeowners insurance didn't cover it.
Think about that for a second.



EDIT:
That being said, when I was in college, we swapped out a 20A breaker for a 30A breaker (running on 12AWG), in the house we were renting. The wiring was GOOD QUALITY, RELATIVELY NEW LOOKING, 12AWG with decent insulation. It was running 2 window air conditioners + at least 5 computers + 1 mini fridge + lights / tv's / other random stuff.

With all of that stuff running, if I grabbed the (insulated) wire where it came out of the breaker box (it wasn't in conduit for some reason or another), I could tell it was a decent amount warmer than wires running other circuits. I could pick it out of the crowd based on heat. But it was also just warm, not hot, maybe like 90 degrees F vs. ~75 degrees F for the rest of 'em.

Could I tell the difference in the wire due to higher load? yes.
Is it PROBABLY as safe as the others? no.
Is it PROBABLY going to melt it's plastic insulation, burst into flames, and incinerate the whole house? no.


Ran it like that for 2+ years, The house is still standing to this day (6 years later).

 

[Canun]

Many contractors ignore the 12AWG wire and use the 14s. It is something they usually squeeze out to make more money. I wouldn't suggest it though. If you have high usage...could be a problem later.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Canun
Many contractors ignore the 12AWG wire and use the 14s. It is something they usually squeeze out to make more money. I wouldn't suggest it though. If you have high usage...could be a problem later.

What? Isn't that against the NATIONAL code?

 

[0]

its not just the wire, its the interconnects. Many times the hottest spots are where splices and terminals meet. I would not do it.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: edro
Yeah, I know it's an NEC code that the entire circuit must be 12AWG wire to use a 20A breaker in your house...

...but, I have a 15A breaker that is daisy chained all over the house and it keeps tripping if too many things are turned on.

The only lines you really need to worry about are the ones closest to the breaker... If each device is pulling a few amps, the only physical wire that will pass the 15A+ is the one right before the breaker.

Wire ampacities are all extremely estimated anyways. NEC, CSA, UL, FCC, they all have different values, all depending on insulation type, conduit type, air circulation, etc.

Will my house really catch on fire if I put an extra 5A (Max) through this circuit?

12 gauge wire = 20amp circuit breaker.
14 gauge= 15amp.

get the electrical circuit diagram of your house, and rewire. or at least to figure out what devices are on the circuit so you can move devices to another circuit.

why risk burning down your house, and have insurance NOT pay because of negligence.

and when u do sell the house, the new owners can sue if something happens because of what you did.

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: ebaycj
The house is still standing to this day (6 years later).

:camera:'s?

 

[dmcowen674]

Did you try just replacing the 15 amp breaker with a new 15 amp breaker?

Sometimes breakers get "tired" and it may be no longer tripping at the correct point.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: spidey07
Oh, wire "ampacities" aren't estimated. It's by code that the wire is guaranteed not to exceed a certain temperature.

Then there's the 80% rule - that is that components are typically rated at 80% of their load....or something like that.

so 15/.8 = 18.75a. You aren't helping his case

Love the maff.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: 0
its not just the wire, its the interconnects. Many times the hottest spots are where splices and terminals meet. I would not do it.

Exactly. He should check each outlet and any junction box splices too.

One weak point is all it takes.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Did you try just replacing the 15 amp breaker with a new 15 amp breaker?

Sometimes breakers get "tired" and it may be no longer tripping at the correct point.

Dave, that's a great point.

If it trips all the time it could just be worn out. Everytime they trip their lifetime decreases I believe.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Did you try just replacing the 15 amp breaker with a new 15 amp breaker?

Sometimes breakers get "tired" and it may be no longer tripping at the correct point.

Dave, that's a great point.

If it trips all the time it could just be worn out. Everytime they trip their lifetime decreases I believe.

Thank you sir :thumbsup: