Replaced two calipers and brakes are too soft to use

[StageLeft]

00 Maxima, replaced rear calipers and bled only the two rear corners. Brakes were too soft, so tonight I did all of them again (using two people), RightRear, LR, RF, LF. Found a tiny bit of air in the front left, but the car is still undriveable. I thought maybe there was a leak, but even after pumping the brake a bunch of times with car off or on the level in the master cylinder stays the same, and it would need a severe leak to be this bad.

I today learned that when bleeding brakes to only go halfway down (last night I did all the way). It may be possible that I've damaged the master cylinder, but I am inclined to think there is still air in there that I haven't gotten out. How can I do it without bringing it to a shop to use its vacuum bleeder?

EDIT: Brake bleeder are any of these gonna help? I Have a one man bleeder. I think there just has to be air somewhere up high, so I need to move fluid very quickly (faster than the bubble can travel up) to get it out.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

I just did a caliper replacement and something I read warned about getting air in the master cylinder as it leads to spongy brakes. Sounds like that may be the culprit...

 

[BlackTigers]

You made sure not to let the fluid get too low in the master cylinder, right?

I made that mistake the first time. =[

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers
You made sure not to let the fluid get too low in the master cylinder, right?

I made that mistake the first time. =[

Nope, it never did. Mikey is right probably, but there is no bleeder screw on the master. I need to know how to take the air out further up the system.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'm going with air still being in the system. Keep bleedin'

I was at a shop on Saturday getting new tires on my motorcycle and the owner was working on a Harley trying to get the rear brakes to work. Took freaking forever to get the air out and fluid to flow out steadily and that was using a vacuum bleeding system. I had the same problem with an old Honda CB750. I rebuilt the front caliper and master cylinder and it took me forever to get all the air out of the line and fill the caliper.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I'm going with air still being in the system. Keep bleedin'

I was at a shop on Saturday getting new tires on my motorcycle and the owner was working on a Harley trying to get the rear brakes to work. Took freaking forever to get the air out and fluid to flow out steadily and that was using a vacuum bleeding system. I had the same problem with an old Honda CB750. I rebuilt the front caliper and master cylinder and it took me forever to get all the air out of the line and fill the caliper.

But wouldn't it be possible to reach a point at which normal bleeding serves no purpose? Because with each pump of the fluid it moves, along with an air bubble, but then the bubble may rise up again to a high point before I can pump again, essentially never getting anywhere...

I think I will try a vacuum bleeder, though. Apparently they are not that expensive, so if I cannot rent one I'll buy it. A power bleeder would be the next step, or towing the thing to a station and having them work on it. Vacuum should be ok, though; it would be nice to be able to bleed brakes by myself anyway.

 

[Vette73]

Have you set the emergancy brake? Set the E.Brake and release several times. I have seen when people do rear brakes they don;t set well as the E.Brake needs to adjust out.

Now this applies if the EBrake is part of the caliper. If it has its own drum inside the rotor then this doe snot apply.

 

[StageLeft]

Marlin, I have used the Ebrake a few times on and off to confirm it works, and the ebrake is part of the caliper, but when I was bleeding I had the ebrake off. Should I have it on while bleeding?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Marlin, I have used the Ebrake a few times on and off to confirm it works, and the ebrake is part of the caliper, but when I was bleeding I had the ebrake off. Should I have it on while bleeding?

No off is fine. Pump the ebrake a little more to see if ti helps at all.


Also do you have ABS? I had a problem bleeding a Audi recently and had to bleed the ABS pump. I plugged in the cable for the Audi/VW system and made the ABS pump up the line and then bleed at the ABS pump under the hood. But that is a known Audi/VW thing so may not apply in your case.

 

[StageLeft]

I do have ABS. I posted this on a maxima forum to see if there was anything specific about our car, but I really don't recall anything special in the haynes about this. I may end up getting a hand-vacuum pump and just going to town on it. I'd buy a pressure pump, but not sure exactly where I'd pick one up locally for less than $100. I think all advance auto parts has is hand ones, which I may have to try. I feel like if I could move the fluid fast enough (like with a pressure pump), I'd bleed it well.

I saw a comment somewhere about jacking up the rear of the car to make the master cylinder level or reversed.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Just take it to the shop, I can't imagine they will charge that much to bleed your MC, plus you can get their input. If it's not something you can fix yourself, you've just wasted the $100 and your time.

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
Just take it to the shop, I can't imagine they will charge that much to bleed your MC, plus you can get their input. If it's not something you can fix yourself, you've just wasted the $100 and your time.

Yup, try this.

The very first time I bled my brakes (knocked the line off of the caliper), I was home alone and didn't know how to do it right by myself.

I took it up to a shop, and the guy there did it for $20 right there, and even showed me how to do it myself.

 

[StageLeft]

And how, pray tell, am I going to get it to the shop? 🙂 It's not really very road worthy. I have not paid for a car repair in many years and don't want this to be the one that breaks me.

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
And how, pray tell, am I going to get it to the shop? 🙂 It's not really very road worthy. I have not paid for a car repair in many years and don't want this to be the one that breaks me.

hahah, i just drove it with the e-brake and squishy pedal. 😛

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers

Originally posted by: Skoorb
And how, pray tell, am I going to get it to the shop? 🙂 It's not really very road worthy. I have not paid for a car repair in many years and don't want this to be the one that breaks me.

hahah, i just drove it with the e-brake and squishy pedal. 😛

I could, but mine is realllly squishy 🙂

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: BlackTigers

Originally posted by: Skoorb
And how, pray tell, am I going to get it to the shop? 🙂 It's not really very road worthy. I have not paid for a car repair in many years and don't want this to be the one that breaks me.

hahah, i just drove it with the e-brake and squishy pedal. 😛

I could, but mine is realllly squishy 🙂

AAA? have it towed...

 

[darom]

Skoorb, before you take your car to the shop, disconnect the vacuum booster vacuum hose and see if there is any brake fluid inside. It will take you a few minutes to do it. Your master cylinder could have failed (seals), slowly leaking the brake fluid inside your brake booster. If you find some, both master cylinder and booster will have to be replaced or rebuilt. This could explain why the breaks don't engage the way they should. In this case, order new parts (if you plan on keeping the car for a while) and do the job yourself.

I hope your problem is simple (just proper bleeding procedure) and cheap to fix.

 

[jtvang125]

I had a similar problem with my lexus awhile back. After replacing one of the calipers because I over pumped the brakes with the calipers off the rotors and popping one of the pistons right out, my pedal got really mushy. After bleeding it numerous times myself and taking it to midas and an independant toyota shop they still couldn't get rid of the mushiness. So finally I took it into the dealer. The rep said there was alot of air in the MC and just regular bleeding would not get the air out so it would have to be hooked up to a vacuum bleeder. The dealer only charged me $110 for labor and brake fluid. I should have just gone to them in the first place instead of wasting time and money with the two other shops.

 

[BUTCH1]

I would keep bleeding , try to have the nipples facing up as to facilitate trapped air to the top of the caliper. My car has ABS too, when I bleed I always suck out the old fluid from the MC, then refill with fresh fluid before bleeding, don't want anything that has settled in the reservoir to make it's way to the ABS unit, they don't respond well to contamination..

 

[StageLeft]

Hi guys, well I did it again and the car is driveable. I cannot tell yet if it's as good as it was (probably not), but definitely I'm getting there. I followed more closely the proper instructions, which say to do rear right, front left, rear left, front right. I also disconnected the battery (I have no idea why it said to do that; disconnecting the ABS, yes, but not sure how/why it matters).

I got the $20 vacuum unit from harbor freight. It is good EXCEPT for the life of me I could not seat a tube around a couple of nipples. First caliper went ok, second awesome, third it was impossible to do, and I have several different sizes; it just wanted to suck air from around the bleed screw. I may buy some different tubing from lowes next time I bleed and try it again. So for the last two I had the mrs use the pedal. Unlike last night (maybe because of battery?) there was a great sucking around after each pump, as fluid was pulled from the MC.