Replace UPS Batteries or just buy new ones?

[GCS]

We have 2 old Opti-UPS systems (a 1440ps and an 1100ps) here that the batteries won't hold charge on at all so we either need new batteries or new UPSes.

What's the consensus - new batteries or new UPSes?

Googling it appears new batteries would be about $50-$60each

Thanks in advance.

Greg

 

[corkyg]

If they otherwise do the job, the battery replacement is a good idea. I took my old unit down to a local Batteries Plus shop, and asked if they had replacements. They did - they are sealed units, so I had them replaced on the spot. As I recall, it was between $50 and $60.

I also bought a new APC 1000va UPS, and it was about $150.

 

[RebateMonger]

If you buy factory replacement batteries, it's just as well to get a new UPS. But many places sell non-OEM batteries. I've purchased from http://batteryspec.com and http://apexbattery.com. I've probably bought replacements for seven UPSes in the past two years and, so far, all are still working fine. Most batteries are $15 to $20 each, plus shipping unless you buy $50 or more at apexbattery.

 

[MarkGinger]

We have 2 old Opti-UPS systems (a 1440ps and an 1100ps) here that the batteries won't hold charge on at all so we either need new batteries or new UPSes.

What's the consensus - new batteries or new UPSes?

Googling it appears new batteries would be about $50-$60each

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Hi Greg,


If your UPSs work there's no point of replacing them. Most of the time UPSs sit idle so there's not much wear on the components. If your UPSs worked without any problems, don't fix something that's not broken. Install new batteries and you're good to go. We have UPSs in our office that have been operating for over 14 years. We buy our batteries at ExcessUPS and replace them all ourselves in house, most UPSs are plug and play so we rarely have any interruptions. Just make sure to buy good quality batteries and stay away from the cheapest bottom of the barrel batteries as they're terrible quality, will need to be replaced more often and can leak acid inside your unit.

Save the money and just replace the batteries!

 

[kiriakos]

Panasonic has three series of such batteries .

1) The common = 24 months life

2) The better one = 5-7 years

3) The best line = 10 years warrantied stand-by life.

I got the absolute best ones for my APC SUA1000i XL .

It must become known to all , that the Unit life , and the battery life,
are two separate things ..

Even if the price of a new unit looks cheaper , than replacing your current batteries ... what you are getting are fresh low quality batteries , that they will fail soon.

 

[Blain]

Unless it is a high-end UPS, the surge protection (MOV), portion of the unit is probably about shot by the time the battery dies.
My vote is simply buy another cheapie and wear it out. :\

 

[RebateMonger]

Unless it is a high-end UPS, the surge protection (MOV), portion of the unit is probably about shot by the time the battery dies.
My vote is simply buy another cheapie and wear it out. :\

I've owned a lower-end APC BE500 for many years. Last year I decided to replace the long-dead battery. The new battery brought it right back to life. I did some quick tests, which it passed, and put it into use protecting some secondary equipment.

Last month we had a (uncommon for here) thunderstorm, accompanied by several quick power outages. The next morning, I noted that every time I started up my 200 Watt PC (NOT plugged into this UPS), the BE500 would go crazy, beeping and flashing and then turning itself off.

Trying to figure out what was happening, I repeated that three times. On the third try, smoke started coming from the BE500.

Whatever hit us the day before had apparently done it in. I think that lightning struck the smoke cannister and let all the magic smoke out.

 

[Gillbot]

I did this:
http://www.cryo-laboratory.com/foru...on/12947-got-bored-attacked-my-ups-today.html

Probably not the best idea but it worked!

 

[Vic Vega]

Enterprise level UPS less than 10 years old? Replace batteries.

Consumer level UPS of any age? Replace unit.

 

[RebateMonger]

Probably not the best idea but it worked!

While I admit to opening up plastic UPS housings to accept larger batteries, I can envision overheating problems with a large change in battery capacity.

UPSes that are designed to run an hour or more using big double batteries always have active cooling systems. Cheaper UPSes that are intended to run dead after a few minutes don't need heavy-duty components and active cooling.

 

[westom]

What's the consensus - new batteries or new UPSes?

A UPS is typically made so cheaply that most of the cost is in the batteries. So cheaply that a UPS battery typically has a life expectancy of something above three years. And a tyupical UPS does nothing else despite claims to do all kinds of magic 'cleaning'.

You mighty consider the upgrade if that UPS does not have a cable to tell the computer to shut down. Other than that, simply look at costs (including shipping charges for the battery). How much do you really save by only replacing batteries?

 

[Blain]

how much do you really save by only replacing batteries?

$27.09

 

[Modelworks]

While I admit to opening up plastic UPS housings to accept larger batteries, I can envision overheating problems with a large change in battery capacity.

UPSes that are designed to run an hour or more using big double batteries always have active cooling systems. Cheaper UPSes that are intended to run dead after a few minutes don't need heavy-duty components and active cooling.

The ones that are good for extending capacity by using larger batteries are the ones that have a jack on the back for battery packs. If it has the jack then chances are it is good for running as long as you need it to.

 

[westom]

While I admit to opening up plastic UPS housings to accept larger batteries, I can envision overheating problems with a large change in battery capacity.

You are assuming larger batteries mean more power. Wrong. Larger batteries charge from the same power limited by electronics. Larger batteries can only provide the same power limited by electronics. Larger batteries mean more energy. Same power - just for longer. If power in and out is same, then temperature (heat) will be same or less.

 

[Gillbot]

While I admit to opening up plastic UPS housings to accept larger batteries, I can envision overheating problems with a large change in battery capacity.

UPSes that are designed to run an hour or more using big double batteries always have active cooling systems. Cheaper UPSes that are intended to run dead after a few minutes don't need heavy-duty components and active cooling.

Hence my warning that it wasn't a good idea, but it worked. The UPS keeping the battery "topped off" shouldn't be a problem but charging it from a depleted state is likely a bad idea.

 

[westom]

... but charging it from a depleted state is likely a bad idea.

Battery charges with the same current whether it is the original battery or a battery 5 times larger. A depleted battery five times large takes that much longer to recharge. Because the battery is larger, temperatures would be lower.

Why does your larger battery work? Explained in this post and a previous post are the reasons why. Battery does not determine discharge power or recharge power. That is defined and limited by electronics.

If a battery is twice as large, then does it get recharged with twice the current? Of course not. It still gets recharged with the same tiny current from the same tiny recharger circuit.

 

[mfenn]

You are assuming larger batteries mean more power. Wrong. Larger batteries charge from the same power limited by electronics. Larger batteries can only provide the same power limited by electronics. Larger batteries mean more energy. Same power - just for longer. If power in and out is same, then temperature (heat) will be same or less.

Partially. Temperature != heat.

Consider the following situation: A given UPS running on battery power generates X watts as waste heat. The cooling systems on that UPS can dissipate Y watts. The original battery can provide A Wh of energy. The new battery can provide B Wh of energy.

If Y > X and B > A and t is greater than the expected runtime of battery A, then the temperature of the UPS at time t will be greater with the battery providing B than with the battery providing A.

 

[westom]

Partially. Temperature != heat.
Consider the following situation: A given UPS running on battery power generates X watts as waste heat. The cooling systems on that UPS can dissipate Y watts. The original battery can provide A Wh of energy. The new battery can provide B Wh of energy.

And that is where your summary is flawed.

Your numbers say you do not grasp some basic concepts. Batteries are rated at amp-hours. So the original battery is good for up to 100 amp-hours (that is you’re A) - the maximum defined by electronics. It can provide 100 amps for one hour (actually will be larger). Amp-hours defines energy (because voltage fairly constant).

Double or triple battery size. It is now 200 or 300 amp-hours (which is your B). What is the maximum current output by larger batteries? Still only 100 amps. Increase your battery (B) to infinity and current draw still does not exceed 100 amps.

Again, amps (and power) are limited completely by electronics. A battery is sized so that is can provide what ever current the electronics might demand. Increasing batteries only means batteries can still provide the maximum demanded by electronics – 100 amps.
Electronics (ie this example) will never draw more than 100 amps. Even if you install a battery so large as to be the entire room (massively increase B). That electronics will still only draw 100 amps maximum. Or less if the load needs less.

100 amps provided by three batteries means each will heat something less than 1/3rd. And with so much larger surface area, temperatures will even be less.

 

[mfenn]

And that is where your summary is flawed.

Your numbers say you do not grasp some basic concepts. Batteries are rated at amp-hours. So the original battery is good for up to 100 amp-hours (that is you’re A) - the maximum defined by electronics. It can provide 100 amps for one hour (actually will be larger). Amp-hours defines energy (because voltage fairly constant).

... some irrelevant stuff here...

First of all, cut the condescending tone. It's in every one of your posts on this forum, and is quite tiring.

For DC, W = V * I if I recall. Thus your own statement proves that Ah and Wh are equivalent in this case. Also, some batteries most certainly are rated in watt hours (a few links).

Second, you were too busy coming up with a condescending reply to even think about my point. Thus, you completely missed it.

The rest of your statement in no way contradicts my argument. In fact, it merely elaborates on it. The problem is not that larger battery generates more heat (which, as you say, it doesn't), it's that cheap UPSes have insufficient cooling for their heat output. They can get away with it for the short run times expected from smaller batteries.

 

[westom]

First of all, cut the condescending tone. It's in every one of your posts on this forum, and is quite tiring.

There is no condescending tone. It was 100% technical. It defined the fundamental flaw in your replies - a lack of basic technical knowledge. An assumption that a larger battery means the UPS will draw more battery current. Worse, you posted the same myth by completely ignoring technical facts that were posted twice.

Stated quite accurately - and twice. Increasing battery capacity does not increase battery temperature. And that is obvious. Can I make it any simpler? In the example, with a 100 amp-hour battery or a 1,000,000 amp-hour battery. A UPS still only draws a maximum of 100 amps from that battery. Why is this not obvious?

Second, amp-hours is how battery capacity is measured. Reasons why amp-hours define energy was listed in a parentheses. Why did you completely ignore this simple concept, "because voltage is fairly constant". Amps times a constant voltage times time is energy. Voltage is constant. So (and this basic battery concept is what you did not learn from so many industry sources) capacity of batteries is measured in amp-hours. We use this number for a few other reasons - again technical - that are beyond what you need to know or learn. Please just learn the simple stuff. Battery capacity (how we define the useful energy content of a battery) is measured in amp-hours.

Citing non-technical sources (a retail site) is not repsonsible. You get educated from manufacturer spec numbers and datasheets - not from retail sales advertisements. For example, the capacity of AA batteries is milliamp-hours - not watt hours: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery

Or military batteries: http://www.concordebattery.com/main_mil_batteries.php
Again amp-hours (not watt-hours).

Or manufacturer technical specs from Panasonic for lead acid batteries. Again capacity is measured in amp-hours:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/batteries-oem/oem/lead-acid-vrla.aspx

Please learn industry standards before going into an emotional tirade.

You did not know this stuff. So the reply to provide what you did not know is blunt and technical. And has zero emotion in it. Technical facts were also posted and then reposted. And still you don't get it. And then start whining about your emotions. Read facts. Those were only facts. Simple stuff you should have known before posting.

Batteries capacity is rated in amp-hours. Using the previous UPS example, increasing its 100 amp-hour battery to 10,000 amp-hours means the UPS still draws the same maximum 100 amps. Increasing battery capacity does not increase current. And does not increase battery temperature.

The OP created no heat problems (assuming same battery technology). Obviously. Probably reduced battery temperatures with a larger battery. Enlarging battery capacity obviously causes no heat increase. Does not increase power consumption. Obvious when one first learns basic battery and UPS technolgy. A fact that is welcome by those who want to learn. And is condescending to those who would rather deny the science and did not learn simple electrical concepts. You are expected to learn from your mistake.

Increasing battery capacity will probably result in less heat. If the original battery was cool, then a larger capacity battery will be even cooler. Reasons obvious from a reduced equvalent series resistance. Can you learn that concept without more whining?

 

[Gillbot]

Meh, all I know is it worked fine until I needed the battery for a car. Then I took it out and used it in the car again and never put it back.

 

[mfenn]

There is no condescending tone. It was 100% technical. It defined the fundamental flaw in your replies - a lack of basic technical knowledge. An assumption that a larger battery means the UPS will draw more battery current. Worse, you posted the same myth by completely ignoring technical facts that were posted twice.

Way to intentionally misrepresent my argument twice. I never stated that a larger battery will draw more current. You've still not addressed my original argument, but at this point I don't expect that you can grasp it.

Second, amp-hours is how battery capacity is measured. Reasons why amp-hours define energy was listed in a parentheses. Why did you completely ignore this simple concept, "because voltage is fairly constant". Amps times a constant voltage times time is energy. Voltage is constant.

For DC, W = V * I if I recall. Thus your own statement proves that Ah and Wh are equivalent in this case. Also, some batteries most certainly are rated in watt hours (a few links).

Either you completely missed the bolded part of my post, or are trolling. I'm going to go with trolling. Either way I'm done with this thread.

Though I'm sure you're going to reply and say "that's because you lack basic technical knowledge".

 

[westom]

Way to intentionally misrepresent my argument twice. I never stated that a larger battery will draw more current.

So how does the larger battery become warmer? If the larger battery is not outputing more current, then how can it be warmer? It cannot.

 

[mfenn]

So how does the larger battery become warmer? If the larger battery is not outputing more current, then how can it be warmer? It cannot.

See edit to #17

 

[Gillbot]

So how does the larger battery become warmer? If the larger battery is not outputing more current, then how can it be warmer? It cannot.

The battery doesn't become warmer. The circuit designed to charge up the stock battery may. It was designed to "fill up" a much smaller battery of xAH over xTime. When you increase this your charging time becomes longer and may cause strain on charging components.

Also the inverse may happen to the supply circuit. The internals were designed to deliver xAH over xTime. With the larger battery, the run time is increased and this may stress the inverter and/or other supply components since the depletion of the battery was their "safety".