Repealing the ACA begins...

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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
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Haven't read the thread, but you must be easily fucking duped if you think they're repealing ACA in any meaningful way without a replacement that offers actual assistance to afford insurance/care. They want no part of 25M people being dropped, or at least most Repubs don't won't to deal with that boondoggle. They might do another round of fake repeals, something that doesn't actually take affect for a while, which I hear might collapse the market all by itself. But any repeal has to be coupled with replacement or they'll get killed by that "librul media!".
25 million people are dropped every year ding dong. You have no idea what a mess Obamacare made of the small business and individual healthcare market. The individual market was already around ~11million or so. Its ridiculous to think the entire small business and individual market would dry up overnight. It was always there. The core problem is making healthcare affordable for people making minimum wage without good employer insurance WITHOUT making health insurance unaffordable for people making $15-20 hour at small businesses or HS + Skill jobs.

The problem is how to cover a grocery store cashier without bankrupting a painter, pharmacy tech, butcher, EMT, small shop keeper, Uber driver, etc.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
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25 million people are dropped every year ding dong.

No, they're not.

You have no idea what a mess Obamacare made of the small business and individual healthcare market. The individual market was already around ~11million or so. Its ridiculous to think the entire small business and individual market would dry up overnight. It was always there. The core problem is making healthcare affordable for people making minimum wage without good employer insurance WITHOUT making health insurance unaffordable for people making $15-20 hour at small businesses or HS + Skill jobs.

OverVolt, lay off the drugs. There was no such thing as the individual market (i.e. outside employers/businesses) before ACA, it was just ruinously expensive and non-subsidized Cobra plans. Small businesses are certainly no worse off than before.

The problem is how to cover a grocery store cashier without bankrupting a painter, pharmacy tech, butcher, EMT, small shop keeper, Uber driver, etc.

Huh? Your statements are incoherent. ACA subsidizes all those low wage individuals, the Republican alternative for subsidizing the insurance premiums literally doesn't exist. They don't have an alternative. Hence why they will never actually replace ACA.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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Well...
Millions have less then 60 days left before their healthcare is snatched away.
But what I want to know, why is the media not insisting the republicans divulge their replacement plan?
Why does the media just let this slide, when it will involve millions of people?
Why does the media just toss up their hands with "we don't know what it will be", and not go after every single republican in congress 24/7, including camping outside their door if necessary until they get an answer.
"We don't know" is not an answer.

Healthcare is not ISIS. Republicans don't need to keep their healthcare replacement plan secret like Trump says he would keep his ISIS plan secret.
This is healthcare for millions of Americans, not terrorism.
And frankly I doubt very much that Trump knows the difference.
Millions are held in limbo, soon to lose all the healthcare they have had and have known these past years, all to be snatched away.

But I believe we do indeed have a clue as to what the republican replacement plan will be.
Nothing. Nothing at all.
Why do we know this?
Well, just listen to what they have been saying lately.
After repealing all of Obamacare, their replacement plan would involve the free market.
Free markets?
That could mean only one thing, return to that very same old system we had before Obamacare.
"Free market" can only mean turning healthcare back over to the "insurance for profit" providers. That American healthcare system, minus everything and anything Obamacare including all of those Obamacare reforms.

We know the plan.
And they have made it quite clear. No secrets here.
They prefer the free market. The exact system we had before ACA and before reforms. Back to leaving it totally up to the insurance providers to decide everything from A to Z.
Deciding once again who WILL get, and who will NOT get treatment.
Deciding once again who is covered, and who will be dropped.
Deciding once again who survives, and who does not.

And who wants to bet....
In the end, after ACA is repealed and replaced, Trump nor his administration will keep one single ACA reform. Not one!
No preexisting clause, no caps, no allowing children to remain on their parents plan, nada.
Not one single ACA reform will survive republican replacement i.e. THE FREE MARKET.
Republicans have kept quiet because they already know this.
But, they do not want you to know this.
Not until January 2017, or when those cancelation letters go out to millions, which ever comes first.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Eventually, the replacement will be Medicare for all. But it may take a health care system disaster before we get there. Looks like Republicans are intent on delivering one.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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They already do compete nationwide. Companies like UnitedHealthcare, Anthem, Aetna, etc. are essentially national companies. If there is a state they're not in its by choice.
Good point. Also, going into those states isn't free; there are plenty of initial and recurring costs to moving into another state.

Again, those who have pre-existing that would have been otherwise offered insurance, get it. Those who don't, won't.

If you don't get it, look up how many have pre-existing that get a plan based upon ACA vs those that don't.

As far as younger people, then they can pay for it through high-risk pool premiums. Otherwise, not my problem.
I don't think "not my problem" is an acceptable response in America. Some of my countrymen having no access to health care between the out-of-pocket and life-saving care is not an acceptable condition for a first world nation, let alone the leader of the free world.

25 million people are dropped every year ding dong. You have no idea what a mess Obamacare made of the small business and individual healthcare market. The individual market was already around ~11million or so. Its ridiculous to think the entire small business and individual market would dry up overnight. It was always there. The core problem is making healthcare affordable for people making minimum wage without good employer insurance WITHOUT making health insurance unaffordable for people making $15-20 hour at small businesses or HS + Skill jobs.

The problem is how to cover a grocery store cashier without bankrupting a painter, pharmacy tech, butcher, EMT, small shop keeper, Uber driver, etc.
Exactly this, and well said. By attempting to be all things to all people and provide copious freebies, the ACA failed at its stated purpose of making health care affordable. However, it is working admirably at its unstated purpose of collapsing the system to move everyone to Medicaid and have us be grateful to have even that meager access.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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No, they're not.

OverVolt, lay off the drugs. There was no such thing as the individual market (i.e. outside employers/businesses) before ACA, it was just ruinously expensive and non-subsidized Cobra plans. Small businesses are certainly no worse off than before.

Huh? Your statements are incoherent. ACA subsidizes all those low wage individuals, the Republican alternative for subsidizing the insurance premiums literally doesn't exist. They don't have an alternative. Hence why they will never actually replace ACA.
Dude, you are remarkably out of touch. There were over ten million Americans in that non-existent individual market prior to Obamacare, and most of those individuals are probably now worse off unless taxpayers are subsidizing their health insurance. COBRA was used ONLY for people who had lost their health insurance due to job loss; it's not an individual policy, it's an individual continuing a group policy after severing ties with the group. COBRA was never intended to replace individual policies and was only a short term solution, and even then, only for those with pre-existing conditions.

And since you evidently don't venture out of your bubble, small businesses are now MUCH worse off. Our premiums are exploding, our deductibles are climbing skyward. If you could speak WITH the people you evidently feel are beneath you rather than simply waiting for them to thank you for Obamacare, you might know this.

In 2014, the US median income was $53,657. That is approximately $26/hour for one earner, or $13/hour for two earners. The fact that you refer to people earning $15 - $20 as "low earners" explains a lot about your level of comprehension on this issue, and why you feel the government can somehow subsidize half the nation's earners in addition to the non-earners.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
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Dude, you are remarkably out of touch. There were over ten million Americans in that non-existent individual market prior to Obamacare, and most of those individuals are probably now worse off unless taxpayers are subsidizing their health insurance.

Which plans and what types of people were able to fill 10M plans pre-ACA? Please be specific with what premiums they paid and their income. It's funny you say those same pre-ACA people are now somehow worse off with the juicy caveat "unless subsidized", since almost 90% of ACA plans are in fact subsidized, something you apparently are unaware of (note: it would help greatly, btw, if Republican governors decided to expand Medicaid up to 400% of FPL). Given the higher minimum standards since ACA passed and the subsidized premiums, it would pretty much be impossible for them not to be better off than they were before. If you're, you know, capable of simple arithmetic.

COBRA was used ONLY for people who had lost their health insurance due to job loss; it's not an individual policy, it's an individual continuing a group policy after severing ties with the group. COBRA was never intended to replace individual policies and was only a short term solution, and even then, only for those with pre-existing conditions.

Yes thanks, everyone knows what COBRA is. Not sure why you're telling us it's "ONLY" continuing coverage for group employer plans as obviously that is far and away what most people use captain obvious. Anyway, lots of people were in COBRA plans because no real equitable individual market existed, so COBRA was their ONLY option unless they were a very young, non-smoking 100% healthy person. Fact is it never worked well and the COBRA premiums make the worst unsubsidized ACA plans now look quaint.

And since you evidently don't venture out of your bubble, small businesses are now MUCH worse off. Our premiums are exploding, our deductibles are climbing skyward. If you could speak WITH the people you evidently feel are beneath you rather than simply waiting for them to thank you for Obamacare, you might know this.

Lol. When in doubt, just speak to a handful of business owners, they'll tell you everything you need to know and not bias your viewpoint one bit! Look, speaking with a handful of people, if anything, would give me a perverted perspective of how a market actually works, as the actual numbers (i.e. millions of biz owners) are far more important than anecdotal bullshit. And the arithmetic you're constitutionally unable to grapple with is that rising premiums and deductibles are not some evil force that just entered the market after ACA was passed in 2010. Saying premiums and deductibles are exploding as if it must have something to do with ACA is comical, but doesn't pass any empirical test. Feel free to prove otherwise.

In 2014, the US median income was $53,657. That is approximately $26/hour for one earner, or $13/hour for two earners. The fact that you refer to people earning $15 - $20 as "low earners" explains a lot about your level of comprehension on this issue, and why you feel the government can somehow subsidize half the nation's earners in addition to the non-earners.

You're confused, reread what you quoted. Minus the pharmacy tech, most of those positions don't require degrees and are hardly getting $15/hr, let alone $20/hr. It's not dirt poor, but it is by definition low wage, especially if you're talking about Uber drivers and EMT's in large, expensive cities, where most of them actually work and live. And yes that wage should indeed be subsidized in most parts of the country, not sure how that's controversial (and frankly you are quite poorly informed if you didn't already know half of earners are ALREADY subsidized by the gov't). In any case, given the vast success of propositions asking to increase the minimum wage being passed in the last 12 months, I'm not alone in this belief and you are clearly out of touch with the common man if you think $15/hr isn't lower wage in most parts of the country, particularly since most of them aren't working anywhere near 40 hrs/week. In fact, reading your post again it appears your confusion lies with your citations of median income and averaging two earners to $13/hr; you actually seem to think Uber drivers, cashiers, etc. are working full time. I'm sorry to break it to you, but you're misinformed. You can't average the household numbers that way, as they aren't full time.
 
Feb 16, 2005
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You "feel" it because you sure as hell don't "know" it.
as much as you know I don't know it.
I've actually experienced some racism when I was engaged to a black woman. We got shuffled to the back of a restaurant away from the front, and away from 90% of the seated customers. Feel free to discount that or some other frivolous claim as to why we were seated where we were. I was at that same restaurant by myself and whadda know, I got to sit with the 'regular folk'
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,382
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I suppose the Dems have had enough time getting the economy back together. Probably time we gave the wheel back to banana republicans so we can relive the fun of the Dubya days. They have a celebrity for a driver too!

Toonces the Cat.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,264
42,514
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and chock full of diversity too!
2s68xau.jpg
Bunch of fud spewing tunts, all of them.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
No, they're not.



OverVolt, lay off the drugs. There was no such thing as the individual market (i.e. outside employers/businesses) before ACA, it was just ruinously expensive and non-subsidized Cobra plans. Small businesses are certainly no worse off than before.



Huh? Your statements are incoherent. ACA subsidizes all those low wage individuals, the Republican alternative for subsidizing the insurance premiums literally doesn't exist. They don't have an alternative. Hence why they will never actually replace ACA.
Oh I see it was already addressed...

Well then!