Reparations for slavery

[CyberSax]

The Civil War was about slavery dammit. But at U.S. public schools they like to teach kids that it was about "State's Rights" because that's a more politically correct term, and since the North has reunited with the South, it makes the South appear less vilanious. And in some sick ways, it almost acts as a justification for slavery in the South and the South's decision to secede.

Revisionist history, *sigh*.

 

[ltk007]

The Civil War was more about politics than it was about slavery. Lincoln didn't even outlaw slavery until 1863.

 

[Raspewtin]

And initially, Lincoln only outlawed slavery in the states that seceded. In states like Missouri that didn't secede but were slave states, they were still allowed to have slaves during the war. So if it really was about slavery, you have to wonder why he did that.

 

[AndrewR]

CyberSax: Think about it for a minute. Why would a very poor sharecropper with barely enough money to feed himself want to go and fight (and they did have volunteers) so that the local plantation owner who had gobs and gobs of money could keep his slaves? That's like a local computer shop owner laying his life on the line so Bill Gates keeps all of his Microsoft stock. That just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

The Southern soldiers fought for Virginia, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Alabama, etc. They didn't fight for slaves -- they were only considered property, after all!

 

[AndrewR]

Zucchini: They did that already -- it's the country of Liberia.

 

[chess9]

An apology by Joint Resolution of the House and Senate, concurred in by the President, and a strong affirmative action program for about 200 years should help to settle past scores. Overt racism has subsided considerably, but right wing Southerners, (cough, cough) and many others, are still capable of incredible acts of viciousness and intolerance towards blacks. We have black racism because of the intrenched white racism which constantly rears its ugly head.

Walk a mile in a black man's shoes.

No chance exists for passage of a bill to pay reparations, so the issue is moot and phony.

 

[Capn]

Well seeing as all my friends who are black buy the same brands I do, I doubt it's any different in their shoes. Plus I probably have bigger feet so I couldn't even fit in their shoes.

Isn't it nice and easy to blame black racism on white racism? Maybe any racist should be responsible for their own bigoted views. As far as affirmative action goes, if you mean programs to help inner cities and generally poor areas of the country I'm all for it. But the idea that someone is more deserving of a job or acceptance into a particular school because of skin color is pure bs.

 

[Warrenton]

You know what I wonder?

How did the living conditions of slaves compare to free africans in africa?

Did the slaves have assured food and some clothing and shelter? What about those if africa?

How long did slaves live? How long did free africans in africa live?



And its bullcrap that slave owners neglected slaves. Do you realize how much a single slave cost? If you account for inflation, in current USD a healthy 18 year old male was almost $35,000. Do you think a slave owner would just let him die? HELL NO! They took care of the slaves, yeah maybe there was some whippings but thats sure a hell of a lot better than starving to death in the desert hiding from roaming tribes of your own colored people who will rip your arms and legs off and place your torso on a stick for you to die. And don't say that doesn't happen, it happened in Samolia and Rwanda. Africans are SAVAGES. Or a majority are, excluding south africa, and north africa. And now that the Black africans have taken over control of SA, it is reverting to tribalism. There are groups of men you go around and rape women and children, plunder and pilage villages. Don't tell my slavery was evil, it did more for those slaves than anything ever would have while they lived in africa. And slave trade had ended many years before the civil war, and most slaves were children of imported slaves at the time of the civil war.

I am not endorsing slavery, but at that time it actually helped the africans. Yes it is wrong to take people freedom away, but slavery was more like a job that gave you shelter and food. Sure you couldn't leave if you wanted, but at least you werent worried that in the middle of the night someone was going to come steal your women and children from your village and then take your life.

I am sorry that slaves had no freedom, but their ancestors should be thankful that they were brought here. Now even though there are ghettos and the like than SOME blacks live in, others are doing quite well. Either way its a heck of a lot better than what they would have been born into if they were still in africa.

 

[CyberSax]

And its bullcrap that slave owners neglected slaves. Do you realize how much a single slave cost? If you account for inflation, in current USD a healthy 18 year old male was almost $35,000. Do you think a slave owner would just let him die? HELL NO! They took care of the slaves, yeah maybe there was some whippings but thats sure a hell of a lot better than starving to death in the desert hiding from roaming tribes of your own colored people who will rip your arms and legs off and place your torso on a stick for you to die. And don't say that doesn't happen, it happened in Samolia and Rwanda. Africans are SAVAGES. Or a majority are, excluding south africa, and north africa. And now that the Black africans have taken over control of SA, it is reverting to tribalism. There are groups of men you go around and rape women and children, plunder and pilage villages. Don't tell my slavery was evil, it did more for those slaves than anything ever would have while they lived in africa. And slave trade had ended many years before the civil war, and most slaves were children of imported slaves at the time of the civil war.

Thanks for the update, Adolph. I have a feeling that the only savage around here is you. Maybe I should chain you up and make you do hard labor at a sugar cane plantation for the next 30 years. Such treatment would be consisten with your logic.

 

[~zonker~]

Reperations for Slavery? you must be kidding!

I prefer the analogoy that supreme court justice Clarence Thomas draws when considering racisim and slavery. To paraphrase....

If you're in a card game and you find one of the player cheating, it is better to start the game over and make sure the game is played fairly than to try and reconcile the damage.

The people who were damaged by slavery are dead. The people living today with a heritage of slavery demand and deserve a "fair game".


On affirmitive action, his views also coincide with mine

"government sponsored discrimination based on benign prejudice is just as noxious as discrimination inspired by malicious prejudice."

 

[Raspewtin]

Warrenton:



<< I am not endorsing slavery, but at that time it actually helped the africans >>




You don't actually believe this, do you?

 

[Harvey]

AndrewR -- I am stunned to find myself agreeing with your argument 100%. My Hungarian and Lithuanain Jewish ancestors did not emmigrate to this continent until the early 20th century. They escaped slavery and death that would have befallen them in their native lands, and they certainly weren't slave owners, here.

I'm a liberal and proud of it, but that doesn't make me stupid enough to buy into the the idea of reparations. OTOH, Russ may be onto a fair compromise.

In this case, I think we would accomplish more for equality and fairness by spending our resources to try to make the future right, instead of wasting time trying to figure out who should or should not be paid for the misdeeds of others, in the past.

Warrenton -- How can you be that much of a moron and still remember how to inhale after you exhale? :|

 

[pen^2]

Warrenton

sure. get whipped everyday and get your mamas and sistas raped by a black person and you think you gonna thank him? YOU ARE ONE SICKO.

 

[Russ]

<< there were even white slaves. >>



DaBoneHead,

There you go making stupid statements again. There were never white slaves in the United States. There were indentured servants. This was a voluntary agreement that expired after seven years. It was not a lifetime of servitude. This is completely different than institutionalized slavery.



<< Thanks for the update, Adolph. I have a feeling that the only savage around here is you. >>



Cybersax,

Interesting attack coming from someone with your history and attitude around here. If anyone deserves that label, you are far more suited than Warrenton.

Okay, now kids, a little quiz:

1. What percentage of Washington?s army was composed of Blacks?
2. How many Blacks fought in the Civil War on the side of the South?
3. What is being done through joint resolution, RIGHT NOW, in DC to recognize Blacks for one of the many contributions they?ve made to our country?

Russ, NCNE

 

[Raspewtin]

Russ:



<< Okay, now kids, a little quiz: >>




Russ how many times have we told you, do your homework yourself!

 

[M00T]

bind me up in chains and beat me!! woo hoo!!

 

[piku]

<< 3. What is being done through joint resolution, RIGHT NOW, in DC to recognize Blacks for one of the many contributions they?ve made to our country? >>



They have the whole fsking month of Februrary, what more could they want?

 

[glenn1]

Okay, let's say for sake of argument that we DID pay reparations. And let's just go with the figure of $1 million per former slave. Let's see how far that goes...

The $1 million would have to be considered earned income, let's tax that at the current top rate of 39%.

Don't forget to deduct for Social Security and FICA - that's another 12%.

Plus you have to consider the Alternative Minimum Tax, which would probably kick in at that level. Let's say another 12% to cover that.

Plus, since i think we can safely say that there are no living former slaves, that means that Estate Tax will be due, and that's pretty high... let's use conservative figures and call it another 25%, since the top rate is around 55% i think.

Then, lest we forget, state income taxes, let's say on the order of 8%.

Gotta remember to pay those sales taxes, excise taxes, intangible property taxes, the luxury tax, value added tax...

Pretty complicated tax return to file this year... better get a tax attorney, accountant, and professional tax preparer like H&amp;R Block.

Don't forget to check off to contribute a buck to support the Presidental Election Fund.

hmmmmmmm... i'd say that each former slave will end up owing money when all is said and done. And the republicans are having trouble figuring out how to win black votes?

 

[Ulfwald]

Cyber, once again you show your ignorance.

Slavery did not become an issue until about half way through the war, when Lincoln saw that he needed a rallying point not only to spur on the troops, but also to help him win re-election. Think about this, Robert E. Lee (a non slave owner) surrendered to the northern General (a slave owner). So STFU until you grow up. Go bag some more groceries, and remember to put the eggs on top.,

 

[Moonbeam]

So how do you're personal arguments relate to efforts in Switzerland to get back property stolen by the Nazi's?

 

[SUOrangeman]

It's late, so I didn't read every word of all the posts. But, as one of the Black folks here, I thought I would chime in. How nice of me, eh?

I personally don't see any monetary reparations actually solving anything. Most everyone agrees that slavery in any form is horrible. No amount of money (nor apologizes) will ever make up for the fact that such an institution ever existed.

And then there's piku's comment. Ooooohhhh boy! I don't know whether to be enraged or frightened. Maybe I just feel ashamed that such thinking still exists.

In a perfect world, Black history would be apart of any form of American history -- completely interwoven into ever aspect. There would be no need to set aside a day, week, or month to recognize the significant accomplishments and contributions of any group, ethnic or otherwise. Unfortunately, we're just no there yet. It started with Black Histoy Day early last century, prgress to BH Week, and now BH Month. We're just progressing towards the ultimate goal.

Lemme put it another way: Should you or your child be hindered from learning a significant historical fact because it's not February?

Meditate on that over a PBJ sandwich.

-SUO, the subliminal one

 

[BoberFett]

Mmmmmm, PBJ.

 

[piku]

You missed my point.

What I meant was that there IS already an entire month set aside for black history - making new holidays and such isnt going to do a thing to help. The responce I made was geared towards the question Russ asked, not anything else. I agree that black history shouldn't be only taught during that month - i didnt mean that by the post I made.

Anything short of acctually teaching us this stuff when it should be taught - in school - isn't going to help. And thats what I meant by the post. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

<< Why should I, through my taxes, be forced to pay money to a black person when a.) my ancestors weren't in this country prior to 1919 or so, b.) there's no guarantee that this person's ancestors were enslaved, and c.) thousands of soldiers died in part to free the slaves (from a Union perspective, that was certainly a central aspect of the war)? >>

Amen !!! One side of my family came to the U.S. in the late 1890's, and the other side has been here in Ohio since the early 1700's. Not only did this side of my family take part in the Civil War (against slavery), they also were active the Underground Railway. Their old home still stands in Circleville, Ohio (named for historic circular Indian mounds) and in the basement there is a secret wall and passage where slaves were hidden.
IMHO, it is things like demands for reparations that is causing race relations to deteriorate. NAACP, Nation of Islam, Jewish extremists, the list goes on and on ... these people are more racist than those they accuse.

 

[Warrenton]

A whipping each day? They only got whipped if they broke the rules. The lack of freedom was wrong, but at the very least they weren't killed by fellow men just for living.

Like I said slave owner did not kill thier slaves, they were worth way too much money to them.

Look at it this way, if it weren't for slavery all blacks would be living in africa, dying of malaria and malnutrition.

YES SLAVERY DID BAD THINGS TO PEOPLE, BUT IN THE LONG RUN IT DID ACTUALLY PUT MANY BLACKS INTO A BETTER SITUATION.