Rent 4 BR (2bath) apt for $2400, live in one room, rent the other three for $800 ea.

[Blackjack200]

Has anyone here ever done this? I really want to get a pad in the city (Philly), but I want to be in a good area and don't want to spend a lot of money.

Cheap places that I've looked at have been dumps, even when the rent was split with roommates.

I know that some leases forbid subletting so I obviously would have to watch out for that, but other than that, is there any reason not to go this route?

The opportunity definitely seems to be there:

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/apa/3669428626.html

I should be able to rent those rooms out at $850/month no problem. Assuming the roommates eventually figure out what's going on, do you think they'd be pissed?

Yes, technically I'm living there "free", but I'm also responsible for collecting rent, managing utilities, internet, TV, etc., and I'm eating the loss when there are vacancies.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Ouch, and I pay under $1000 for a HOUSE! Well I choose to pay more, I pay about $1100.

I can't see how you can't do it though, it's not any different than having room mates and splitting rent. You just have to ask yourself if you're ready to live with a bunch of random people. They could become your best friends, but they could also be annoying. If there is a master suite with it's own bathroom and a room to setup some cooking appliances then perhaps it would be more doable.

 

[Blackjack200]

I already live with two roommates to offset my mortgage. I wouldn't be living there full time, just weekends and some weeknights. Most of my stuff would stay in Morrisville.

 

[JMapleton]

Most landlords will not allow this, as it's against the lease agreement. But if you can find one that does allow it, sounds like a decent idea. Just plan to have a room or two empty once in a while and maybe a non pay renter.

 

[Blackjack200]

Most landlords will not allow this, as it's against the lease agreement. But if you can find one that does allow it, sounds like a decent idea. Just plan to have a room or two empty once in a while and maybe a non pay renter.

Yeah, I'm afraid pretty much all of them will forbid it. Maybe I'll talk to a broker that knows Philly and see if there are any landlords or management companies that tolerate it.

Otherwise I might just take a risk and do it anyway (though probably not with a $2400 unit) I just really doubt that a landlord is going to boot out a paying and well behaved tenant because he's subleasing.

 

[ImpulsE69]

When I see prices like this, I am so glad I live in the boonies...

 

[JMapleton]

When I see prices like this, I am so glad I live in the boonies...

I live in a city, but I don't live near an ocean. It's that darn ocean that makes things expensive.

I cannot think of any expensive cities out there not near the ocean.

 

[SSSnail]

I WISH I can pay for 4BR 2BTH for only $2400...

 

[Sluggo]

Yeah, I'm afraid pretty much all of them will forbid it. Maybe I'll talk to a broker that knows Philly and see if there are any landlords or management companies that tolerate it.

Otherwise I might just take a risk and do it anyway (though probably not with a $2400 unit) I just really doubt that a landlord is going to boot out a paying and well behaved tenant because he's subleasing.

Damn right they will boot you out. Subletting is a can of worms for the landlord.

The tenants have most of the rights of a lessee, but the landlord has his hands virtually tied behind his back without a lease.

 

[MaxPayne63]

3 seconds googling houses in my area found 4200 sq feet on 20 acres that would cost half as much per month (mortgage) as the apartment.

Urban areas are retarded.

 

[Blackjack200]

Without a lease, wouldn't the tenants be limited to the protections provided by the same landlord/tenant laws that protect any tenant, lease or no lease?

I read an awful lot about landlording and renting when i started investing in properties, and I talked to lawyers for advice, and at no point did I ever read or hear that a subletter is any kind of a "can of worms".

 

[Blackjack200]

3 seconds googling houses in my area found 4200 sq feet on 20 acres that would cost half as much per month (mortgage) as the apartment.

Urban areas are retarded.

Oh cool, I'm guessing there are dozens of world class restaurants, shops, a waterfront, theaters, bars, clubs, dance companies, interesting architecture, tons of single women, ivy league universities, world class museums, ethnic neighborhoods, and skating rinks, all within walking distance when I step outside my 4200 sq foot cave on 20 lonely ass acres, right?

Because clearly when I said I was looking for a pad in the city, what I really meant was 4200 square feet of social isolation.

 

[RossMAN]

Oh cool, I'm guessing there are dozens of world class restaurants, shops, a waterfront, theaters, bars, clubs, dance companies, interesting architecture, tons of single women, ivy league universities, world class museums, ethnic neighborhoods, and skating rinks, all within walking distance when I step outside my 4200 sq foot cave on 20 lonely ass acres, right?

LOL :thumbsup: for effort.

 

[DrPizza]

Two thoughts:
1. If you get a really good tenant, after, say, 6 months, drop their rent by $100, instead of being greedy. Have them not disclose how much they're paying to the other renters; make the others the same deal if they're all good about paying on time, don't eat your food, etc. With a bit of a deal, they might be more likely to consider it a good thing that they wouldn't want to give up - wouldn't want to pay a lot more for a different place. Tis better to have a room rented 12 months of the year for 700 than to have it rented 10 months for 800.

Thought two: 2400 and you don't even gain equity? I'll echo the sentiment - you city people are nuts. Instead of $2400 and living there "free", why not consider 3200 a month & purchase a place? Is housing that expensive in Philly? I have a relative who lives fairly close to Philly (Bordentown area) in a relatively new HOA neighborhood. Hmmm... scratch that - taxes are (I think) a hell of a lot higher in NJ. But, surely, some area near Philly has nice townhouses for $175k-225k (which would be cheaper than the $3200)

 

[Red Squirrel]

When I see prices like this, I am so glad I live in the boonies...

Yeah no kidding. I don't live in the boonies but I live up north so it's not as insane expensive. Housing/apartments actually are considered expensive here, but still not THAT expensive. A typical house is around 200k. Never looked into apartments but from what I heard I think people are charging around 1k per month or so, which is still expensive considering my base mortgage payment is about 800/mo. I pay $1100/mo though so I can pay it off faster.

I don't see the point of living in places where it's so expensive. In fact I'd probably move to one of the smaller nearby towns if I was to retire or start my own business. I could go live an hour away and get a farmland house for under 100k. That would be wicked awesome.

 

[Sluggo]

Without a lease, wouldn't the tenants be limited to the protections provided by the same landlord/tenant laws that protect any tenant, lease or no lease?

I read an awful lot about landlording and renting when i started investing in properties, and I talked to lawyers for advice, and at no point did I ever read or hear that a subletter is any kind of a "can of worms".

Its a problem for the property owner, not the people living there.

If the tenant he has a lease moves out, he is basically stuck with squatters, who have no obligation to move or pay him rent.

 

[DrPizza]

Oh cool, I'm guessing there are dozens of world class restaurants, shops, a waterfront, theaters, bars, clubs, dance companies, interesting architecture, tons of single women, ivy league universities, world class museums, ethnic neighborhoods, and skating rinks, all within walking distance when I step outside my 4200 sq foot cave on 20 lonely ass acres, right?

Because clearly when I said I was looking for a pad in the city, what I really meant was 4200 square feet of social isolation.

You know, I hear that all the time from people who live in the city. But, really, how often do they actually go to a world class restaurant? There are a lot of things to do, but I'm led to believe that mostly, they go back home/to their apartment after work, and on most nights, stay there.

 

[Blackjack200]

Two thoughts:
1. If you get a really good tenant, after, say, 6 months, drop their rent by $100, instead of being greedy. Have them not disclose how much they're paying to the other renters; make the others the same deal if they're all good about paying on time, don't eat your food, etc. With a bit of a deal, they might be more likely to consider it a good thing that they wouldn't want to give up - wouldn't want to pay a lot more for a different place. Tis better to have a room rented 12 months of the year for 700 than to have it rented 10 months for 800.

I thought about doing something like this for the tenants I currently have for exactly the reason you described; it's better to have stable occupancy than a little more money but constantly have to fill vacancies. I decided against it. Here's why.

#1 - Eventually (meaning within 2 or 3 months) they will forget that their new rent is any kind of special deal, and they will think of it as the normal rent.

#2 - I don't think that the $100 is really going to influence them one way or the other. If they like the apt and are happy there, $800 is a pretty good deal to live in a nice room in that neighborhood. If they are unhappy or lose their job or something, $700 will be just as unpalatable/undoable as $800.

Thought two: 2400 and you don't even gain equity? I'll echo the sentiment - you city people are nuts. Instead of $2400 and living there "free", why not consider 3200 a month & purchase a place? Is housing that expensive in Philly? I have a relative who lives fairly close to Philly (Bordentown area) in a relatively new HOA neighborhood. Hmmm... scratch that - taxes are (I think) a hell of a lot higher in NJ. But, surely, some area near Philly has nice townhouses for $175k-225k (which would be cheaper than the $3200)

A house that size in that neighborhood is at least $600k. It's one of the best neighborhoods in Philly. The 175-225k townhouses are in the blighted areas. They're not dangerous but they're not really interesting places to live either.

I live about the same distance from Philly as your friend in Bordentown. I definitely want the apt to be right in the city.

 

[Mixolydian]

There are a lot of things to do, but I'm led to believe that mostly, they go back home/to their apartment after work, and on most nights, stay there.

That;s why i live in the suburbs. Sure I could live in the city and have all those things at my disposal, but I would never use them.

 

[Blackjack200]

Its a problem for the property owner, not the people living there.

If the tenant he has a lease moves out, he is basically stuck with squatters, who have no obligation to move or pay him rent.

Of course that's not true.

You know, I hear that all the time from people who live in the city. But, really, how often do they actually go to a world class restaurant? There are a lot of things to do, but I'm led to believe that mostly, they go back home/to their apartment after work, and on most nights, stay there.

I belong to a sailing club in Philly. https://sites.google.com/a/g.libertysailing.org/libertysailing/

I usually sail two nights a week in the summer, after sailing the crew will sometimes go out to a restaurant. Last Saturday I met a date at the Annenberg Center to see a play, at Christmas I saw the Nutcracker at The Acadamy of Music. I love to skate and would do it more if I lived closer to a rink. I absolutely love the city, and have no doubt that I would take good advantage of it. I'm bored as shit in Morrisville.

 

[JMapleton]

You know, I hear that all the time from people who live in the city. But, really, how often do they actually go to a world class restaurant? There are a lot of things to do, but I'm led to believe that mostly, they go back home/to their apartment after work, and on most nights, stay there.

And eat Ramen noodles because that's all they can afford after paying rent.

 

[Sluggo]

Of course that's not true.

Of course it's not true, ask SpatiallyAware what a hassle it is to evict a sublet.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2293340

 

[Blackjack200]

Of course it's not true, ask SpatiallyAware what a hassle it is to evict a sublet.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2293340

I read that thread and it has nothing to do with "squatters that have no obligation to move or pay him rent" The subletter was gone and SA didn't know what to do with his stuff.

You have to go through a formal process when you evict someone, that's the case whether they've signed a lease with you or not.

For example, let's say I rented the apartment and had my girlfriend move in, then me and the girlfriend split up and I left the apartment and stopped paying rent, but she stayed. The landlord is now in the exact same situation he would have been in if I had sublet a room: he has someone living in his property without a lease.

He can start the process of eviction at this point (although some state laws will actually allow the new tenant to stay if they are willing to pay the rent) but in real life he'll just contact her and see if she wants to stay and pay the same rent I was paying.

Leases are there mostly to let tenants know how to behave and protect yourself if shit goes wrong. You don't go evicting people, racking up legal bills, and causing vacancies just because you can.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Living with other people is not easy....but if you can do it, more power to you.

 

[xanis]

I usually sail two nights a week in the summer, after sailing the crew will sometimes go out to a restaurant. Last Saturday I met a date at the Annenberg Center to see a play, at Christmas I saw the Nutcracker at The Acadamy of Music. I love to skate and would do it more if I lived closer to a rink. I absolutely love the city, and have no doubt that I would take good advantage of it. I'm bored as shit in Morrisville.

I hear you on that one. I'm in Newtown at the moment but I've been looking for apartments in the city (easier said than done in Philly with my budget). Have you looked in Northern Liberties and/or Passyunk Square?