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Renowned Bird Flu Expert Warns: Be Prepared

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
ABC News
For the last couple of years, the virus has been contained to a fairly limited region, but its now a little shocking to see how quickly it has spread over the last few months... anyone else think that with the virus now so wide spread, that its chances for mutating into something more dangerous have increased?
 
It's possible. Webster obviously advocates preparing for an outbreak. He has stockpiled supplies so he and his can avoid contact with the contagion once it goes pandemic. The reason for this is that by the time the actual virus appears, it will be too late to develop a vaccine that can be widely distributed in time.

I intend to follow the news and prepare to stay away from places it appears in until the crisis is over.
 
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
ABC News
For the last couple of years, the virus has been contained to a fairly limited region, but its now a little shocking to see how quickly it has spread over the last few months... anyone else think that with the virus now so wide spread, that its chances for mutating into something more dangerous have increased?
And a few weeks ago, I spoke with Peter Palese, who is of a completely different opinion, and does not believe that H5N1 holds more than a 10% chance of spreading among humans.

Peter Palese
 
And whatever you do, be SCARED SCARED SCARED!! Fear helps one make irrational decisions, like voting Republican.
 
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
ABC News
For the last couple of years, the virus has been contained to a fairly limited region, but its now a little shocking to see how quickly it has spread over the last few months... anyone else think that with the virus now so wide spread, that its chances for mutating into something more dangerous have increased?
And a few weeks ago, I spoke with Peter Palese, who is of a completely different opinion, and does not believe that H5N1 holds more than a 10% chance of spreading among humans.

Peter Palese

I hope your guy is right.

I'm kind glad we all got influenza this year. Maybe we've built up some *real* immunity if the "big one" hits (as opposed to that flu shot garbage temporary immunity) 😀
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
ABC News
For the last couple of years, the virus has been contained to a fairly limited region, but its now a little shocking to see how quickly it has spread over the last few months... anyone else think that with the virus now so wide spread, that its chances for mutating into something more dangerous have increased?
And a few weeks ago, I spoke with Peter Palese, who is of a completely different opinion, and does not believe that H5N1 holds more than a 10% chance of spreading among humans.

Peter Palese

I hope your guy is right.

I'm kind glad we all got influenza this year. Maybe we've built up some *real* immunity if the "big one" hits (as opposed to that flu shot garbage temporary immunity) 😀

If you're interested in having real immunity, get a FluMist vaccine. It is live, attenuated flu virus... and generates lasting immunity to the particular strains used, including BOTH T- and B-memory cells. This year's FluMist recipe includes the N1 epitope (as in H5N1) and might theoretically provide some protection, in case H5N1 becomes a pandemic.
 
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
ABC News
For the last couple of years, the virus has been contained to a fairly limited region, but its now a little shocking to see how quickly it has spread over the last few months... anyone else think that with the virus now so wide spread, that its chances for mutating into something more dangerous have increased?
And a few weeks ago, I spoke with Peter Palese, who is of a completely different opinion, and does not believe that H5N1 holds more than a 10% chance of spreading among humans.

Peter Palese

I hope your guy is right.

I'm kind glad we all got influenza this year. Maybe we've built up some *real* immunity if the "big one" hits (as opposed to that flu shot garbage temporary immunity) 😀

If you're interested in having real immunity, get a FluMist vaccine. It is live, attenuated flu virus... and generates lasting immunity to the particular strains used, including BOTH T- and B-memory cells. This year's FluMist recipe includes the N1 epitope (as in H5N1) and might theoretically provide some protection, in case H5N1 becomes a pandemic.

You know why I think FluMist sucks? Is because it *is* live virus, folks will drop into wal-mart, squirt it up their noses, and go on about their business. And high risk individuals will be uneccessarily exposed...
 
Originally posted by: EatSpam
And whatever you do, be SCARED SCARED SCARED!! Fear helps one make irrational decisions, like voting Republican.

Well, if it does happen, we're gonna have some interesting shifts in the voter population. If say - 50% of the population died...

- Elderly would die at the highest rate - primarily republican voters I'm guessing
- Children would die at the second highest rate - can't vote so no effect

Then segmenting into demographics
- I would guess the poor (dems) would die at a higher rate than the middle class/rich (repugs). Also you'd have much higher death rates in cities with higher Dem populations than in rural areas with repugs.

Too bad it doesn't only afflict politicians. Maybe Chickenhawks and Doves will be highly susceptible?
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
ABC News
For the last couple of years, the virus has been contained to a fairly limited region, but its now a little shocking to see how quickly it has spread over the last few months... anyone else think that with the virus now so wide spread, that its chances for mutating into something more dangerous have increased?
And a few weeks ago, I spoke with Peter Palese, who is of a completely different opinion, and does not believe that H5N1 holds more than a 10% chance of spreading among humans.

Peter Palese

I hope your guy is right.

I'm kind glad we all got influenza this year. Maybe we've built up some *real* immunity if the "big one" hits (as opposed to that flu shot garbage temporary immunity) 😀

If you're interested in having real immunity, get a FluMist vaccine. It is live, attenuated flu virus... and generates lasting immunity to the particular strains used, including BOTH T- and B-memory cells. This year's FluMist recipe includes the N1 epitope (as in H5N1) and might theoretically provide some protection, in case H5N1 becomes a pandemic.

You know why I think FluMist sucks? Is because it *is* live virus, folks will drop into wal-mart, squirt it up their noses, and go on about their business. And high risk individuals will be uneccessarily exposed...
My college mentor was involved in the clinical trials... which they later expanded to include the young and the elderly.

In short, it is untransmissible, and the only people who have to worry about it, would be people with severely compromised immune systems, such as ones who are on heavy immunosuppressive therapy, on chemotherapy, or those in the late stages of AIDS. But they wouldn't be dropping into Walmart for a live vaccine. So really, it's not a worry at all, and the efficacy of the vaccine is VASTLY superior.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
I would guess the poor (dems) would die at a higher rate than the middle class/rich (repugs). Also you'd have much higher death rates in cities with higher Dem populations than in rural areas with repugs.

Too bad it doesn't only afflict politicians. Maybe Chickenhawks and Doves will be highly susceptible?
Do you honestly think that this is how the demographics are broken up?
 
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: alchemize
I would guess the poor (dems) would die at a higher rate than the middle class/rich (repugs). Also you'd have much higher death rates in cities with higher Dem populations than in rural areas with repugs.

Too bad it doesn't only afflict politicians. Maybe Chickenhawks and Doves will be highly susceptible?
Do you honestly think that this is how the demographics are broken up?

Heh. I know. :roll:
 
Meuge - I'll have to read more into FluMist - the docs I've talked to weren't impressed by it. But they aren't necessarily "in the know".

As far as demographics - while tongue in cheek - that's generally how the voters are broken down. Middle class is probably about 50/50, while rich/poor are overrepresented in the respective parties. Probably breaks down even further, poor white verus poor minority, etc.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: EatSpam
And whatever you do, be SCARED SCARED SCARED!! Fear helps one make irrational decisions, like voting Republican.

Well, if it does happen, we're gonna have some interesting shifts in the voter population. If say - 50% of the population died...

- Elderly would die at the highest rate - primarily republican voters I'm guessing
- Children would die at the second highest rate - can't vote so no effect

This virus appears to kill the young and healthy (20-40 years old) at a very high rate. It does so by causing an immune over-reaction. Granted, very elderly people will most likely die at the highest rates...but the population between 20 and 40 could be decimated as well.
 
Originally posted by: msparish
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: EatSpam
And whatever you do, be SCARED SCARED SCARED!! Fear helps one make irrational decisions, like voting Republican.

Well, if it does happen, we're gonna have some interesting shifts in the voter population. If say - 50% of the population died...

- Elderly would die at the highest rate - primarily republican voters I'm guessing
- Children would die at the second highest rate - can't vote so no effect

This virus appears to kill the young and healthy (20-40 years old) at a very high rate. It does so by causing an immune over-reaction. Granted, very elderly people will most likely die at the highest rates...but the population between 20 and 40 could be decimated as well.

It kills people 20-40 because those are the people taking care of chickens in those countries.
 
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: msparish
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: EatSpam
And whatever you do, be SCARED SCARED SCARED!! Fear helps one make irrational decisions, like voting Republican.

Well, if it does happen, we're gonna have some interesting shifts in the voter population. If say - 50% of the population died...

- Elderly would die at the highest rate - primarily republican voters I'm guessing
- Children would die at the second highest rate - can't vote so no effect

This virus appears to kill the young and healthy (20-40 years old) at a very high rate. It does so by causing an immune over-reaction. Granted, very elderly people will most likely die at the highest rates...but the population between 20 and 40 could be decimated as well.

It kills people 20-40 because those are the people taking care of chickens in those countries.

No, it kills these people because they tend to have the healthiest immune systems

 
Originally posted by: purepolly
Originally posted by: smack Down
It kills people 20-40 because those are the people taking care of chickens in those countries.

No, it kills these people because they tend to have the healthiest immune systems
Purepolly is right.

The inflammatory response elicited by massive lung infection appears to be far more damaging than the viral-mediated cell killing itself. That's why early treatment with antivirals (preferably after suspected exposure, and before symptoms appear) is crucial.

The catch-22 is that while normally such an immune reaction would be treated with aggressive immunosuppressants and anti-inflammatories, doing that will provide an avenue for the virus to escape destruction, and will result in the virus becoming the primary mediator of damage, as opposed to the host immune system. So either way, the victim is (forgive the bluntness) monumentally screwed.

That being said, considering that this virus has been circulating in the poultry for a couple of decades now, it is unlikely that it will gain the capability for human-to-human transmission without major changes. Furthermore, historically, when a flu virus crossed from xenobiotic to endemic, it has usually become significantly attenuated, so even if H5N1 does become transmissible among the population, the consensus is that it will lose much of its dreaded lethality in doing so.

Panic has never solved any problem, nor has it ever been helpful in formulating rational strategy (see the Nuclear Power thread for a demonstration of the power and stupidity of scaremongering). Is there a chance that there will arise a strain of influenza that will wipe out a significant part of the human race? Absolutely... Is that likely to happen within our lifetimes? Not at all. So get your FluMist vaccines, and enjoy the global warming.
 
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: purepolly
Originally posted by: smack Down
It kills people 20-40 because those are the people taking care of chickens in those countries.

No, it kills these people because they tend to have the healthiest immune systems
Purepolly is right.

The inflammatory response elicited by massive lung infection appears to be far more damaging than the viral-mediated cell killing itself. That's why early treatment with antivirals (preferably after suspected exposure, and before symptoms appear) is crucial.

The catch-22 is that while normally such an immune reaction would be treated with aggressive immunosuppressants and anti-inflammatories, doing that will provide an avenue for the virus to escape destruction, and will result in the virus becoming the primary mediator of damage, as opposed to the host immune system. So either way, the victim is (forgive the bluntness) monumentally screwed.

That being said, considering that this virus has been circulating in the poultry for a couple of decades now, it is unlikely that it will gain the capability for human-to-human transmission without major changes. Furthermore, historically, when a flu virus crossed from xenobiotic to endemic, it has usually become significantly attenuated, so even if H5N1 does become transmissible among the population, the consensus is that it will lose much of its dreaded lethality in doing so.

Panic has never solved any problem, nor has it ever been helpful in formulating rational strategy (see the Nuclear Power thread for a demonstration of the power and stupidity of scaremongering). Is there a chance that there will arise a strain of influenza that will wipe out a significant part of the human race? Absolutely... Is that likely to happen within our lifetimes? Not at all. So get your FluMist vaccines, and enjoy the global warming.
But during that time, wasn't the virus contained to a fairly central geographic area (SE Asia), and with that, within a fairly small number of species as hosts...? Now that the virus has broken that containment and is increasing its range, and its range of hosts that it could possibly infect, how much does that change the odds that it might find the conditions it needs to make the 'major changes' you eluded to? Not at all, a little...? One would think with the virus encountering new species such as martens ( I believe one was found dead in europe infected with H5N1)(ETA: and now the BBC is reporting the first death of a dog to the disease) that don't inhabit the area where the virus has traditionally been limited to, that it would give the virus new genentic material to potentially mutate with...

My science foo is weak... :frown:

 
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