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Remind me again, why we're doing this

B

bigpow

Platinum Member
A co-worker is buying a Sony Vaio desktop PC from circuitcity, the whole set is only $939.97 (after $350 rebate). It's a P4 3G, 512MB RAM, 200GB HDD, DVD+-R/W, CDROM, 15" LCD, etc.

There's even a hotter deal for a Dell PC, only $450 (P4 2.8, 512MB, 40GB, 15" LCD, etc) - without the crappy Circuitcity rebate too.

Now I've been calculating my next upgrade, it's going to cost me $600+ just to buy 4 parts:
NF4 Ultra $140
A64 3200+ $180
6600GT PCI-E $200
550W PSU $100

At this point, I'm beginning to think... is it really worth it?
As I'm older, I find myself seldom and seldom play games (the occasional gaming, however, I like to play heavy hitters like DOOM3 & Half-Life 2) 🙁

I'm soliciting your honest & mature opinion.
Do you think this old guy must retire from PC building world and settle with retailer's PC instead?



Background:
I built my first PC 12 years ago (486DX2-66)
(I've built/upgraded to these: P100, P166MMX, P233MMX, PII-300, Celeron 300A, PIII 1G, Duron 850, Athlon 1000, Athlon 1400, Athlon XP1700 - there was a short time where I ran my own business & sold a dozen sets with PIII/Celeron CPUs.)
 
never! i don't know why u all build ur own pc's but for me it isn't just to save money. it's for the fun of doing it and choosing every component that goes into ur pc. i think that's why most ppl do it.
 
Originally posted by: bigpow
A co-worker is buying a Sony Vaio desktop PC from circuitcity, the whole set is only $939.97 (after $350 rebate). It's a P4 3G, 512MB RAM, 200GB HDD, DVD+-R/W, CDROM, 15" LCD, etc.

There's even a hotter deal for a Dell PC, only $450 (P4 2.8, 512MB, 40GB, 15" LCD, etc) - without the crappy Circuitcity rebate too.

Now I've been calculating my next upgrade, it's going to cost me $600+ just to buy 4 parts:
NF4 Ultra $140
A64 3200+ $180
6600GT PCI-E $200
550W PSU $100

At this point, I'm beginning to think... is it really worth it?
As I'm older, I find myself seldom and seldom play games (the occasional gaming, however, I like to play heavy hitters like DOOM3 & Half-Life 2) 🙁

I'm soliciting your honest & mature opinion.
Do you think this old guy must retire from PC building world and settle with retailer's PC instead?



Background:
I built my first PC 12 years ago (486DX2-66)
(I've built/upgraded to these: P100, P166MMX, P233MMX, PII-300, Celeron 300A, PIII 1G, Duron 850, Athlon 1000, Athlon 1400, Athlon XP1700 - there was a short time where I ran my own business & sold a dozen sets with PIII/Celeron CPUs.)
Click to expand...

No. Your A64/gF6 rig will slap that Vaio stupid. 😀

- M4H
 
for just web/email stuff, i think youre better off just buying a dell, etc. but for "high performance" gaming you still get more bang for your buck building on your own.

plus, i dont ever build a completely new rig. ill get a new hdd here, a new vid card there, change my case today, etc. i dont have the budget to drop 1000+ at a time on a hobby.
 
i dont think that VAIO even has a video card . . .

my friend bought one 2 years ago . . . it uses IGP
 
For me, it's the fun, and flexibility of choosing exactly what I want.

I don't want some slapped together OEM PC.

Usually, OEM PC's often lack an AGP slot, have fewer RAM, and PCI slots.

They have no BIOS options to speak of. You can't have any fun OCing. They come loaded with OEM crap software everywhere you look (I'd reformat the thing because of this).

If I were to order an OEM PC with what I want (excluding the case, and MB), it'd cost about the same anyway.

Most importantly: It wouldn't be my creation. 😉
 
I'm in the same boat. I'm not that old yet but i don't play the games like i did in high school, except madden and nba live. I used to rag on dell all the time but now i see myself looking at their computers. please hit me.
 
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

No. Your A64/gF6 rig will slap that Vaio stupid. 😀

- M4H
Click to expand...

Right ^. Cheap Sony and Dell computers don't have expensive RAM or video cards, they don't use performance hard drives, they use motherboards not designed for OC'ing (Abit/DFI/and others specifically design the circuitry to handle overclocking, and those better designs do cost more $), etc. For comparison, I priced out this computer last night when a friend asked if Newegg could beat TigerDirect:

Cheap Biostar nForce 2 IGP mobo
Athlon XP 2700+ Retail
Kingston 2x256MB PC3200
Samsung 40GB hard drive
NEC 3520A 16x DVD+/-RW drive
Floppy drive
Antec Sonata w/380W PSU
Windows XP Home
17" LCD

It was about $700 shipped. I then compiled a list of even cheaper parts:

Cheapest 4/5 star 333MHz FSB socket A board on Newegg
Sempron 2600+ OEM and a $10 hsf
Cheap 512MB stick of PC3200 (4/5 stars)
Samsung 40GB hd
52x32x52x CD-RW drive
Floppy drive
Cheap case w/350W PSU
Windows XP Home
17" LCD

That was $598 shipped, granted, the cheap mobo, RAM, and PSU might have resulted in an RMA before I got it working.

The point is, the first computer in that list would rival the Sony in terms of performance. The RAM, PSU, case, and probably even the nForce 2 video likely outperformed the Sony as well. In addition, that's a 17" LCD, which adds a lot to the price. The upgrade to a 200GB hard drive would cost less than $80, and an upgrade to an XP 3000+ would be another $30. So, for roughly $810, you could have a better machine with a 3 year warranty on most parts, and it wouldn't be loaded with junk.

Would you rather have a non-proprietary computer with better performance, or a slower proprietary computer loaded with junk software plus have to wait for a $350 rebate and still end up spending $130 more than the custom built machine?

Dell does offer some good deals, but the whole point of custom computers is:

1) It's often cheaper.

2) You can choose a design you really want. You won't be restricted to whatever case Dell/Sony/other happens to use.

3) Many custom builders overclock to get even more for what they paid for. As I said above, you won't be able to OC much on a Dell. The motherboard is very limiting, the cooling equipment isn't up to the job, and the PSU is matched to meet the needs of the computer--not a power-hungry overclocked system.

4) Dell and others use the slowest, cheapest, quietest, but still reliable components possible. With a home built computer, I get to choose performance components with maximum reliability. After carefully choosing a motherboard with a 2% performance advantage over boards with the same chipset, high-performance RAM offering another 5-7%, a fast hard drive, and an overclockable CPU, the small performance boosts add up: I'll end up with a faster computer overall.

Furthermore, I have a tendancy to crash many of the Dell computers I've used. They generally work fine, but I find it interesting that my home machines only crash due to poor coding (I've gone for over a year w/o a crash before), yet I can freeze a Dell in under an hour. You get what you pay for. Cheap parts = mediocre reliability and performance.

The "exotic" computer companies--Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc--offer the advantages of home built computers, but at a higher price. Thus, you might as well built it yourself.
 
Originally posted by: machineheadg2r
I'm in the same boat. I'm not that old yet but i don't play the games like i did in high school, except madden and nba live. I used to rag on dell all the time but now i see myself looking at their computers. please hit me.
Click to expand...

Click Here.
 
Have you even confirmed that these Happy Meal? computers have an AGP or PEG x16 slot so you can play Doom3 or HL2 on something besides onboard video? :evil:

Plus I will just say "what they said" to the guys above. Warranty, expandability, servicability, a custom parts kit just like I like it, and pride in my work. If all you can see is price, then price a 3-year warranty option on those "deals" so you're looking at apples & apples.
 
Originally posted by: wolfman579
Originally posted by: machineheadg2r
I'm in the same boat. I'm not that old yet but i don't play the games like i did in high school, except madden and nba live. I used to rag on dell all the time but now i see myself looking at their computers. please hit me.
Click to expand...

Click Here.
Click to expand...

:evil: :laugh: :evil:
 
Originally posted by: vazel
never! i don't know why u all build ur own pc's but for me it isn't just to save money. it's for the fun of doing it and choosing every component that goes into ur pc. i think that's why most ppl do it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you really don't save all that much over some of the loss-leader kind of deals that Dell does, but you get the satisfaction of knowing exactly goes into the box, and also when one part gets obsoleted, you upgrade just that one, and not junk the whole machine.
 
If you start to add up the extras like a monitor and card with DVI port, overclockable components, a performance hard drive, dual layer 16x burner, 1GB or 1.5 GB RAM, a high wattage power supply, etc... the home brew systems are usually just as good of a deal as anything you can get from Dell or HP. Probably better.

A lot of a "Free DVD burner upgrade" components are crap. And a lot of the "Free LCD monitor upgrade" offers don't use DVI.

Plus you pay for only what you need.
 
How about this, why not try to build to those specs using the CHEAPEST parts you can find, because you can bet that's what's in those Happy Meal? computers.

cheap case and psu $56
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=11-124-111&depa=0

p4 2.8 $160
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=19-116-185&depa=1

cheap p4 mobo $59
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=13-157-036&depa=1

cheap 512mb ddr400 $60
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=20-223-009&depa=1

cheap 200gb hdd $110
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=22-144-146&depa=1

cheap 15" lcd $180
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=24-024-001&depa=1

cheap dvd burner $51
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=27-190-007&depa=1

~$680

BAM. Beat the pricepoint. And I would never buy such crappy components, but you can bet a system seller would put that stuff in their el cheapo lines.
 
Originally posted by: ribbon13
How about this, why not try to build to those specs using the CHEAPEST parts you can find, because you can bet that's what's in those Happy Meal? computers.

cheap case and psu $56
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=11-124-111&depa=0

p4 2.8 $160
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=19-116-185&depa=1

cheap p4 mobo $59
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=13-157-036&depa=1

cheap 512mb ddr400 $60
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=20-223-009&depa=1

cheap 200gb hdd $110
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=22-144-146&depa=1

cheap 15" lcd $180
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=24-024-001&depa=1

cheap dvd burner $51
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=27-190-007&depa=1

~$680

BAM. Beat the pricepoint. And I would never buy such crappy components, but you can bet a system seller would put that stuff in their el cheapo lines.
Click to expand...

Shipping? Keyboard? Mouse?
And the time to troubleshoot all the problems that result from those "Cheap" parts. And what happens if 3 months down the road one of those cheap part goes bad? Sony has a very good reputation when it comes to warranty. I'm not even gonna think about the time it takes Rosewill to send you a replacement.
That being said, I still like building my own PC, mainly because it's fun to do so
 
If the day ever comes where I am choosing should I go with Dell,Gateway,Compaq,ect or building my own is the day I will give up on computers. I enjoy it and enjoy picking out what parts I want.
 
Indeed, the whole point of that was to demonstrate why custom pcs are better. No one who build a custom pc goes out of there way to buy crappy stuff. And keyboard and mouse would be $20, shipping maybe $60. still beats $1300, even if shipping was exhorbitant.

I personally would get a Tyan Thunder K8WE if I had $600. Would be like the road runner hasted, on dope, wearing boots of speed, chasing a female after he hasn't been laid in 50 years.
 
Big take it from a Dell owner, there is no way in h311 you would be able to play Doom3 or any other shooter on a web surfing Dell. Will it Pwn web surfing? Sure, of course. Will it play UT2004, Doom3, or any other good games? Well I get lag playing City of Heroes with no other players around me if that tells you anything. If you are going to give up on PC games totally, yeah get a Dell. If not do what you have been doing. For me personally I have given up on console gaming due to the high volume of kids so I am trying to build my first PC aimed at gaming, surfing, etc.
 
I think you need to take a closer look at what is in those PCs. You claim to have much experience building PCs, and I thought I did too before coming into these forums to find there were a couple things I never even considered One was brand names, the other was PSUs.

Look inside those PCs. Look at how well the case is made and look at the PSU. They are most likely not even close to the quality I would use for my computer now. Its about quality and performance. Just because it says 200GB or 3GHz doesn?t mean its going to perform. Just because it comes with a 15" LCD doesn?t mean its a piece of sh!t. Who buys a 15" LCD these days anyway? Grandma does. Because grandma could give a flaying dencher about the monitors quality when she wants size 20 font.

Anyone here could build a $400 PC. But its going to be nearly as sh!t as that $450 dell. Will it work? Sure, technically.
 
I've been constantly upgrading and building upon the 386DX/25 system I put together in 1990.

I don't play as much games as I used too, and currently I don't have the latest greatest CPU or video card. But that's no reason to buy a retail computer. I find it cheaper to upgrade the parts over time and sell the old parts on eBay.
 
nothing beats CRT for image quality ot this very day. And I doubt it will change any time soon. Plasma still has burn in worries, LCD's have dead pixels and limited view range, and projectors have a host of issues thave have to be dealt with.


If the only part I get this year is a Thunder K8WE, I'll be happy. And happiness is why you should build your own computer.
 
Originally posted by: mapen
I've been constantly upgrading and building upon the 386DX/25 system I put together in 1990.

I don't play as much games as I used too, and currently I don't have the latest greatest CPU or video card. But that's no reason to buy a retail computer. I find it cheaper to upgrade the parts over time and sell the old parts on eBay.
Click to expand...

i agree. i had a sony vaio desk top that treated me right for a few yas, until i wanted to upgrade. than i found it would just be easier to sell the thing and start from scratch. too many proprietary parts and actual unknowns. took me a week i think to find out what the psu was, only to find that i could never get a replacement unless i bought it from sony to fit the case.

as for the system itself, it was fine for what it was, actually did have a 4x agp slot, ran really quiet (probably due to the fact that sony didn't bother installing a chasis fan) and looked ok. i just got tired of fighting with the thing every time i did what should have been a simple upgrade. and btw, i didn't find sony support to be good at all, although i only used them twice i think.

funny, whenever i see a thread about pre-built's i think of that guy "ralph the cow" here who posted like 12 different threads because his new dell with integrated graphics couldn't run sims2, lol.

 
damn the sims 2. I have some really high end machines (quad opteron 850, dual opteron 250 type stuff) and the sims 2 is actually one of the few apps I've seen use the resources. Why in gods name does it need 1400mb of ram? Seriously, I need to take a screen shot. It consumed 1421mb of physical ram when my gf was playing it. a game shouldn't do that.
 
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